The Sin Nature

[Tenchi]

Obviously, whatever I say to you, you can take it or leave it.

I don't speak on my own authority but on the authority of the One who sent me.

Oh, brother. Come on, now. You aren't an OT prophet and you aren't speaking to anyone with special divine authority. You're just a guy with some kooky ideas about Christian doctrine.

Nevertheless, you have every right to reject His words as I proclaim them to you.

You are not obligated to receive the truth.

Right back at you, brother! I've quoted many passages and verses that confound your holy perfection stuff and you've ignored them in favor of a select few verses that, twisted and contorted, seem to make your case for you.

Of course, one thing about rejecting the truth is that for those who do so, it is often to their condemnation.

Again, right back at you.

 

[Tenchi]

Why not just accept what is written in 1 John 3:9 and 3:10 instead of nullifying it with "practice".
Can God's seed ever bring forth the fruit of the devil?
No.

I've taken significant pains to explain why it is foolishness to "just accept" your interpretation of 1 John 3:9-10. If you're determined to ignore what you've been shown, well, so be it. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[Tenchi]

Is it really a bizarre idea that reborn men can and will serve God perfectly?

Yes, of course it is. I've already explained fairly in-depth why.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are joking right? @gordon777 took "be ye perfect" totally out of context and thinks God DEMANDS perfection in everything we do which is not at all what the author wrote.

God does in fact demand perfection.

Of course, He provided Christ's perfect life, given as a propitiation; so the requirement of perfection is satisfied in Christ's shed blood.

Then you ought to do so. Your position that all men are desperately wicked all the time is NOT in scripture.

Jeremiah 17:9 is not in scripture?

Well, except how you interpret it is NOT THE PLAIN meaning of the text.

By all means, expound on Jeremiah 17:9 and tell us what it really means.

OK, I guess no Scripture will convince you to rethink your position. It is rock solid in your mind. No matter how many verses I show you that your view of that one line in Jeremiah is not what the Bible teaches, you will not budge.

I guess the discussion has reached a dead end.

First of all, Jeremiah 17:9 is a verse in the Bible. So, what it teaches is taught by the Bible. No context is going to nullify the plain meaning of any verse. Every verse in the Bible is a statement of truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh, brother. Come on, now. You aren't an OT prophet and you aren't speaking to anyone with special divine authority. You're just a guy with some kooky ideas about Christian doctrine.



Right back at you, brother! I've quoted many passages and verses that confound your holy perfection stuff and you've ignored them in favor of a select few verses that, twisted and contorted, seem to make your case for you.



Again, right back at you.

I didn't say that I was an OT prophet.

But I do have the Holy Spirit (unction) who is given to me by Christ; and He is the One who leads me into all truth.

You may think that my doctrine is "kooky", but I assure you that it is sound.

I endeavor to study to shew myself approved and to relate to the people only that which is sound by nature.

 

[Tenchi]

I didn't say that I was an OT prophet.

"I don't speak on my own authority but on the authority of the One who sent me."

Close enough.

But I do have the Holy Spirit (unction) who is given to me by Christ; and He is the One who leads me into all truth.

Not perfectly, as your posts demonstrate.

You may think that my doctrine is "kooky", but I assure you that it is sound.

Assure all you like. What you need to do, at least as far as I'm concerned, is provide a good, solid, scriptural answer to the questions and biblical contradictions to your sinless perfection view that I gave you.

I endeavor to study to shew myself approved and to relate to the people only that which is sound by nature.

As do we all - some rather better than others.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not perfectly, as your posts demonstrate.

Prove it.

Use the quote feature and quote any post that I have posted that is contradicted by holy scripture. Make your case as to why the post is not in accordance with the truth.

I am always open to criticism. If you can show me that something that I have posted is in the wrong, I may even change my point of view.

However, up to this point you have not done so.

 

[Hopeful]

I've taken significant pains to explain why it is foolishness to "just accept" your interpretation of 1 John 3:9-10. If you're determined to ignore what you've been shown, well, so be it. You can lead a horse to water...

Ever seen an apple seed bring forth pumpkins?
Seed can only bring forth after itself.
Whose seed are we reborn of?
God's.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, of course it is. I've already explained fairly in-depth why.

Then the devil won.

Good news though.
The devil lost !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God does in fact demand perfection.

No He does not and you have no verse that says that God demands perfection or you would have quoted one. I know Him pretty well and Jesus, who was like the Father, also did not demand perfection. He said he who gave a disciple of his a cup of cold water will not lose their reward...does not sound like perfection...just a cup of cold water.

Of course, He provided Christ's perfect life, given as a propitiation; so the requirement of perfection is satisfied in Christ's shed blood.

Please show me the scripture that says Jesus told people that he was perfect.

Jeremiah 17:9 is not in scripture?

There is more than one verse in the Bible.

By all means, expound on Jeremiah 17:9 and tell us what it really means.

First of all, Jeremiah 17:9 is a verse in the Bible. So, what it teaches is taught by the Bible. No context is going to nullify the plain meaning of any verse. Every verse in the Bible is a statement of truth.

Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, (there are those who trust in the Lord)
whose trust is the LORD.
8He is like a tree planted by water,
that sends out its roots by the stream,
and does not fear when heat comes,
for its leaves remain green,
and is not anxious in the year of drought,
for it does not cease to bear fruit.” (does not describe a desperately wicked person)

9The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it? (Jeremiah is not making a statement but asking a question...WHO can understand it)
10“I the LORD search the heart (the answer: The Lord knows the heart)
and test the mind,b (hummm, God is testing the mind/heart....hmmm, why if it is desperately wicked, what can be learned by testing if the answer is a given)
to give every man according to his ways, (Ah, God does not think all people are wicked and their ways are wicked but looks to see what the ways are)
according to the fruit of his deeds.” (Ah, God does not think all people are wicked and their ways are wicked but looks to see what the fruit of his deeds are)

The conclusion you come up with is NOT what God thinks. Now, as I said, you have decided this is what you WANT TO THINK and so refuse to read any verse, including the rest of Jeremiah 17, to have the scripture teach you and correct your thinking. But I answer for anyone else who is tempted to take ONE VERSE and build a whole theology upon it.

 

[justbyfaith]

No He does not and you have no verse that says that God demands perfection or you would have quoted one.

No, the fact that I do have a verse that proclaims it does not preclude that I would have quoted it. I assumed that the verse in question (Matthew 5:48) is so well-known by people that I would not have needed to quote it.

There is also James 2:10,12 and probably also a number of other passages that say the same thing (such as Galatians 3:10).

 

[justbyfaith]

Please show me the scripture that says Jesus told people that he was perfect.

John 8:46. He challenged them to pinpoint even one sin that was evident in His life; the point being that they would be unable to find any.

There is more than one verse in the Bible.

Yes, that is true. However, it is a mistake of application to think that we can discount any singular verse over the idea that the context teaches contrary to it.

Context will never teach contrary to a verse. The Bible doesn't contradict itself.

 

[justbyfaith]

...that sends out its roots by the stream,
and does not fear when heat comes,
for its leaves remain green,
and is not anxious in the year of drought,
for it does not cease to bear fruit.” (does not describe a desperately wicked person)

Actually, this is speaking of someone whose heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked; but their hearts have been permeated by the Holy Spirit ("pickled", so to speak).