The Sin Nature

[Charlie24]

Thank God for verses like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Keep looking for the escapes !

And we also have the warning,

Matt. 26:41
"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

The flesh is weak through the sin nature that's still present.

If you don't want to believe this, then don't. Paul warned us and so has Christ, to be on guard against it.

 

[Charlie24]

The way you read Paul's statements there is no free will for man, he is now under the effects of Christ and has to do nothing. He just goes on his way living for Christ without any problems.

When Paul said, "let not the sin nature reign in your mortal bodies" he meant exactly that. It can reign in you if you let it. It's still present, and will reign as a king if you don't mind the things of God.

Rom. 6:16
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

The born-again have free will to serve sin (the sin nature) or the obedience of righteousness (the divine nature).

That is what Paul is speaking of here! Most are luke warm and will be "spewed out of his mouth."

The "Spirit is willing" to lead us into righteousness now that we are sin conscience through the believing of the finished work of Christ. But we still have free will, and we must obey Him into righteousness and resist the "old nature" that is still present, and still desiring to be king.

Paul has warned us of this, and anyone who doesn't believe it can continue battling this problem and wondering why if they choose to do so!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Some will tell you there is no such thing as a "sin nature." They say it's not found in Scripture and is made up to fit the agenda of a certain doctrine or doctrines.

The phrase 'sin nature' seems to be a phrase that was made up by the NIV translators of previous decades. They've since stop using it, and where they used it in scripture they now simply refer to it as the flesh, I think.

If the 'sin nature' is the flesh it is still present with the believer. If the 'sin nature' is the fundamental nature of the mind set on the flesh it is gone and has been replaced by the new nature of the mind set on the Spirit:

17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
2 Corinthians 5:.17 BSB


6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
Romans 8:6-9 BSB

 

[Charlie24]

The phrase 'sin nature' seems to be a phrase that was made up by the NIV translators of previous decades. They've since stop using it, and where they used it in scripture they now simply refer to it as the flesh, I think.

If the 'sin nature' is the flesh it is still present with the believer. If the 'sin nature' is the fundamental nature of the mind set on the flesh it is gone and has been replaced by the new nature of the mind set on the Spirit:

17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.a The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
2 Corinthians 5:.17 BSB


6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God.

9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
Romans 8:6-9 BSB

Rom. 6:12-14
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Notice that Paul says, "sin shall not have dominion over you." Why would he say this? Notice he didn't say you have total victory over the possibility of sin!

Paul is speaking to believers here, why would he say, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body" if were not possible for sin the reign in your mortal body?

Why would he say, "neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness" if it were not possible?

Place the "definite article" which is "THE" in front of sin as I have shown in the OP. and now you know why he tells us this. "THE SIN NATURE" is why!

 

[Charlie24]

I started this thread for the benefit of those who love our Lord, who have believed in His finished work to the saving of the soul. But they have found that sin is still present, and they are wondering why, how is this possible?

It's because the sin nature is warring against the new divine nature in Christ, and the only way for the divine nature to reign as king over your mortal body is to fill yourself with 'the faith" in Jesus Christ that He will accomplish in you what He has promised.

Even though Satan battles against you, as he did against Christ, if we surrender ourselves to Christ in faith, He will in the end resurrect our bodies, perfect, sinless, and without spot at the Resurrection.

It's all about "free will" given to us by God. How much do we want Christ, will we choose His way by faith over the ways of this world? If our faith is true, He will take us all the way, despite the efforts of Satan!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why would he say, "neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness" if it were not possible?

Don't worry, I do not subscribe to a 'sinless perfection' Christianity.
I'm too honest to do that, lol.

Place the "definite article" which is "THE" in front of sin as I have shown in the OP. and now you know why he tells us this. "THE SIN NATURE" is why!

Yes, but does the sin we contend with as Christians come from the nature of the flesh, or from the nature of the fundamental mindset within a man?

Before I was born again my mind was set on the flesh, and so it was a losing battle from the start. I was my own ideological traitor who sympathized with the things of the flesh. But now that I'm born again I have a new mindset, one set on the things of the Spirit and so I'm winning the battle against sin. Did my fundamental nature change? Yes, of course it did. My core being has been transformed. And so in that sense I do not have the old nature. But I still have the voice of the flesh present to tempt and provoke me.

You see, the notion of a 'sin nature' became a problem when we tried to assign a meaning to a phrase the NIV translators invented and which the Bible does not use. That's how I understand it. It's not a Biblical phrase. And so we're trying to assign a meaning to a concept that is not even in the Bible. We have an inner nature that has been transformed. And yet we still have the nature of the flesh and it's desires that remains to be recreated. Which 'nature' should we call the 'sin nature'. How 'bout neither. Let's just refer to each for what they are. We have the nature of the flesh, and we have the nature of the spirit. And for the Christian we have a new nature of the spirit.

 

[Tenchi]

You have removed "us" from responsibility to submit to God.
In other words, you present the case that "it is on God to choose who will be saved" without our desire being evident
That I can't agree with.
God doesn't repent of sin for us: He gave the gift of repentance from sin to us for us to use !

*Sigh* No, I haven't "removed from us the responsibility to submit to God." In fact, I talked about this very matter - submission - in the post from which you extracted the above quotation. Nowhere in my post did I write "it is on God to choose who will be saved." I don't believe this. What I do understand Scripture to say, though, is that without God's help, no one can come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. This, the Bible makes very clear. Every person prior to their salvation is as follows:

Titus 3:3 (ESV)
3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.

Colossians 1:21-22 (ESV)
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death...
Ephesians 2:1-3 (ESV)
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Romans 5:6 (ESV)
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 3:10-18 (ESV)
10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Jeremiah 17:9 (ESV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

The unrepentant sinner is in a very sorry state and, without God's assistance, totally unable to come to Him through Christ. But the Gospel is the "power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes" (Romans 1:16). The unrepentant person, mired in rebellion, selfishness and sin, encounters in the preaching of the Gospel the saving power of God (Romans 10:14-15). As they hear the truth of Christ their Savior, the Holy Spirit convicts, God "grants repentance to the acknowledging of the truth," and He draws the lost person to Christ (John 16:8; 2 Timothy 2:25; John 6:44). Having done all this, however, it remains up to the hearer of the Gospel to believe and receive Christ as their Savior and Lord. As love requires, the lost person must be free to choose to believe; they cannot be made to trust in Christ, forced by divine fiat to do so.

If you had simply asked me what I believe rather than asserting - wrongly - what you think I believe, I would have clarified all this for you.

 

[Tenchi]

Just read 1 John 3:9, or 1 John 3:6 coupled with 1 John 2:17.

1 John 3:6-9 (ESV)
6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Nothing here contradicts what I wrote.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's because the sin nature is warring against the new divine nature in Christ, and the only way for the divine nature to reign as king over your mortal body is to fill yourself with 'the faith" in Jesus Christ that He will accomplish in you what He has promised.

This is absolutely correct that it is by faith that we believe that Christ in us by the Spirit has defeated the power of sin, and so we can, by faith, resist sin. This is what it means to walk by faith. But what I would do is replace 'sin nature' with 'the flesh' to eliminate an unnecessary contention about what actually defines a phrase that the NIV translators invented. A phrase, if I'm not mistaken, they have stopped using.

 

[Charlie24]

Don't worry, I do not subscribe to a 'sinless perfection' Christianity.
I'm too honest to do that, lol.


Yes, but does the sin we contend with as Christians come from the nature of the flesh, or from the nature of the fundamental mindset within a man?

Before I was born again my mind was set on the flesh, and so it was a losing battle from the start. I was my own ideological traitor who sympathized with the things of the flesh. But now that I'm born again I have a new mindset, one set on the things of the Spirit and so I'm winning the battle against sin. Did my fundamental nature change? Yes, of course it did. My core being has been transformed. And so in that sense I do not have the old nature. But I still have the voice of the flesh present to tempt and provoke me.

You see, the notion of a 'sin nature' became a problem when we tried to assign a meaning to a phrase the NIV translators invented and which the Bible does not use. That's how I understand it. It's not a Biblical phrase. And so we're trying to assign a meaning to a word that is not even in the Bible. We have an inner nature that has been transformed. And yet we still have the nature of the flesh and it's desires that remains to be recreated. Which 'nature' should we call the 'sin nature'. How 'bout neither. Let's just refer to each for what they are. We have the nature of the flesh, and we have the nature of the spirit.

When we come to Christ in faith, believing in His finished work on the Cross and His Resurrection, we are now sin conscience. We now know that it was our sin that nailed Christ to that Cross! Now the battle has begun!

Now you are in "the race" of your life that Paul so often spoke of, the race to make it to the finish line with Christ. That race can only be finished by faith in Him that gave Himself for us!

Satan will not throw up his hands and say, oh well, I lost that one to Christ, no, he will fight your faith and do everything in his power to separate you from that faith that saves us.

That's why Paul, when he was about to be executed in Rome, he wrote to Timothy,

2 Tim. 4:6-8
"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Paul could have written of many things he was proud of that he had done, but the thing that mattered the most was, "I have kept the faith."

This is what Satan desires to take from us, "the faith." He uses the "sin nature" to get at us. He and his demons continuously watch us who are saved, they know exactly what our weaknesses are, and they will bombard us with those things. Our top priority in this Christian life is to "keep the faith." If that is in tact, Christ will accomplish the rest in us.

We who are in Christ have a new nature, the old nature has been made dormant through faith in Christ. But it will rise if we allow Satan to penetrate us with the things the old nature loved. And he knows exactly what they are for all of us!

 

[Tenchi]

The way you read Paul's statements there is no free will for man, he is now under the effects of Christ and has to do nothing. He just goes on his way living for Christ without any problems.

Brother, this is a strange distortion of what I wrote. I realize going deeper into Paul's writing may take you into unfamiliar territory, but don't reject it out-of-hand with these Strawman versions of what he taught (or what I've written). Why did Paul write the sixth chapter of Romans? Well, because the believers at Rome did not understand what Paul explained to them in Romans 6. If he'd held to the idea that being saved meant one was "now under the effects of Christ and has to do nothing," the entire letter to the Romans would have been unnecessary. Obviously, Paul did not think this - and neither do I.

Instead, I explained to you that the Christian has three basic actions they must take in walking with God: receiving, remaining in, and reflecting the work of God. I also wrote of the need for submission in the believer's walk with God. So, the Christian person isn't utterly passive, "under the effects of Christ without anything to do." I don't understand, then, why you'd mischaracterize my remarks as you have above.

When Paul said, "let not the sin nature reign in your mortal bodies" he meant exactly that. It can reign in you if you let it. It's still present, and will reign as a king if you don't mind the things of God.

Actually, Paul started chapter 6 of Romans with a rhetorical question that indicated, I think, that he believed there was no good reason why any Christian should be "continuing in sin that grace may abound."

Romans 6:1-2 (ESV)
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

I think it's very important to note here that Paul thought the believers at Rome should not have been living in sin, not because they could have been feeding the right nature and were not, but because they were living in denial of the truth of their death to sin by their co-crucifixion with Jesus Christ. In more modern, more concise terms, Paul was saying, in the first eleven verses of chapter 6 of Romans, "Why in the world are you living in sin? You're all dead to sin by your spiritual union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. He died; you died. He rose from the dead into newness of life; so did you. Believe it and live in the truth of who you've become in Christ and in the freedom from sin that is your spiritual birthright in him!"

This is a very different doctrine than the "two dogs" doctrine that has become so common among Christians today. Rather than the Christian being the deciding factor in what is true of their life, Paul taught that the Christian who "feeds the bad dog" is living unnaturally, against their new nature given to them in Christ. The truth is that the "bad dog" is crucified with Christ and held powerless on the cross as a result, without real power to cause any born-again believer to sin. This isn't a fact that the believer makes true by their choice to feed one "dog" or the other, but is the truth already about them into which they need to settle, by faith, and live in, by faith, every day (Romans 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:7). As they do, the truth about who they are in Jesus begins to be reflected in their daily living.

Walking by faith this way, coupled to constant submission to God's will and way, are the two "keys" Paul offers to the born-again believer in Romans 6 by which they may escape any and all sin.

Romans 6:11 (ESV)
11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:13 (ESV)
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

It isn't on us to make the "good dog" strong and well-fed and to starve the "bad dog," but, from a position of submission to God, to live by faith in the truth of what God has already done in, and for us, through Christ. It is by this means that the Christian person "lets not sin reign in their mortal body."

 

[Charlie24]

This is absolutely correct that it is by faith that we believe that Christ in us by the Spirit has defeated the power of sin, and so we can, by faith, resist sin. This is what it means to walk by faith. But what I would do is replace 'sin nature' with 'the flesh' to eliminate an unnecessary contention about what actually defines a phrase that the NIV translators invented. A phrase, if I'm not mistaken, they have stopped using.

Brother, this is a strange distortion of what I wrote. I realize going deeper into Paul's writing may take you into unfamiliar territory, but don't reject it out-of-hand with these Strawman versions of what he taught (or what I've written). Why did Paul write the sixth chapter of Romans? Well, because the believers at Rome did not understand what Paul explained to them in Romans 6. If he'd held to the idea that being saved meant one was "now under the effects of Christ and has to do nothing," the entire letter to the Romans would have been unnecessary. Obviously, Paul did not think this - and neither do I.

Instead, I explained to you that the Christian has three basic actions they must take in walking with God: receiving, remaining in, and reflecting the work of God. I also wrote of the need for submission in the believer's walk with God. So, the Christian person isn't utterly passive, "under the effects of Christ without anything to do." I don't understand, then, why you'd mischaracterize my remarks as you have above.



Actually, Paul started chapter 6 of Romans with a rhetorical question that indicated, I think, that he believed there was no good reason why any Christian should be "continuing in sin that grace may abound."

Romans 6:1-2 (ESV)
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

I think it's very important to note here that Paul thought the believers at Rome should not have been living in sin, not because they could have been feeding the right nature and were not, but because they were living in denial of the truth of their death to sin by their co-crucifixion with Jesus Christ. In more modern, more concise terms, Paul was saying, in the first eleven verses of chapter 6 of Romans, "Why in the world are you living in sin? You're all dead to sin by your spiritual union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. He died; you died. He rose from the dead into newness of life; so did you. Believe it and live in the truth of who you've become in Christ and in the freedom from sin that is your spiritual birthright in him!"

This is a very different doctrine than the "two dogs" doctrine that has become so common among Christians today. Rather than the Christian being the deciding factor in what is true of their life, Paul taught that the Christian who "feeds the bad dog" is living unnaturally, against their new nature given to them in Christ. The truth is that the "bad dog" is crucified with Christ and held powerless on the cross as a result, without real power to cause any born-again believer to sin. This isn't a fact that the believer makes true by their choice to feed one "dog" or the other, but is the truth already about them into which they need to settle, by faith, and live in, by faith, every day (Romans 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:7). As they do, the truth about who they are in Jesus begins to be reflected in their daily living.

Walking by faith this way, coupled to constant submission to God's will and way, are the two "keys" Paul offers to the born-again believer in Romans 6 by which they may escape any and all sin.

Romans 6:11 (ESV)
11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:13 (ESV)
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

It isn't on us to make the "good dog" strong and well-fed and to starve the "bad dog," but, from a position of submission to God, to live by faith in the truth of what God has already done in, and for us, through Christ. It is by this means that the Christian person "lets not sin reign in their mortal body."

We are "dead to the sin nature" but the sin nature is not dead to us! We are only free of the old sin nature as long as we fill ourselves with the things of Christ, which in return keeps us from sin.

When Paul said in Rom. 6:1-2,

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

He is saying that Grace is not a license to sin! In other words, we can't keep sinning with Grace continuing to grow with it and cover it, the Lord's Grace is not a license to sin, it's mercy, not a green light to keep willfully sinning.

 

[Charlie24]

Tenchi

If you don't believe what I'm saying, it's ok with me!

I'm just trying to help us understand why sin keeps occurring in our lives.

We must keep in relationship with Christ to keep the sin nature at bay!

 

[Tenchi]

We are "dead to the sin nature" but the sin nature is not dead to us! We are only free of the old sin nature as long as we fill ourselves with the things of Christ, which in return keeps us from sin.

But, I don't fill myself with the things of Christ; I am already occupied by the Holy Spirit who has made of me his "temple." (1 Corinthians 6:19-20) As I submit to his rule in my life, to being under his control throughout each day, he fills me with the life of Christ and the spiritual fruit that is produced as a result: love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, etc. (Galatians 5:22-23)

I can certainly live in the old habit of self-centeredness and rebellion toward God, if I want to. But I never have to live this way. Always, as a "new creature in Christ," I can live in conformity to what is already true of me, which is that I am "dead to sin and alive unto God through Jesus Christ" (Romans 6:1-11) and have been since the moment I was born-again.

As the Spirit is in control of me, and I stand, by faith, on the truth of who I am in Jesus, the Spirit transforms me, making me more and more like Jesus.

Romans 8:11 (ESV)
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:13-14 (ESV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Ephesians 3:16 (ESV)
16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,

2 Corinthians 3:18 (ESV)
18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-25 (ESV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

When Paul said in Rom. 6:1-2,

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

He is saying that Grace is not a license to sin! In other words, we can't keep sinning with Grace continuing to grow with it and cover it, the Lord's Grace is not a license to sin, it's mercy, not a green light to keep willfully sinning.

Goodness! Paul is saying a great deal more than this - as I've already explained to you. Consider what he'd written in Romans 5:

Romans 5:20 (ESV)
20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Earlier in his letter to the believers at Rome, Paul had remarked that "some people" had "slanderously reported" that he was teaching that Christians should "do evil that good might come" (Romans 3:8). Why? Because of the sort of thing Paul wrote in Romans 5:20. In Christ, God extends grace to the sinner that is greater than all their sin. Where our sin abounds, God's grace super-abounds (Gk. - hyperperisseuō - hyper-abound), which is what Paul meant by "abounded all the more." The law-centered Jews thought this doctrine a license to sin, that it would lead Christians into moral profligacy should they take it to heart.

Paul denied this charge vehemently at the beginning of Romans 6, going on to explain that God's grace, properly understood, ought to produce holiness, not sin. United to Christ as they are, and thus freed from the power of Self and sin, born-again believers have no excuse for living in sin. Grace is not, then, a license for believers to sin; sin need not "super-abound" in the life of one who has, in Christ, been made "dead to sin and alive unto God." In fact, as a believer lives by faith in the reality of who they have become in Christ, the natural result is freedom from sin. The key, then, to a holy life isn't feeding, but faith.

 

[Tenchi]

If you don't believe what I'm saying, it's ok with me!

I'm just trying to help us understand why sin keeps occurring in our lives.

We must keep in relationship with Christ to keep the sin nature at bay!

It's not that I don't believe what you're saying; it's that you are just on the surface of what Paul taught. Don't stay there!

 

[Charlie24]

It's not that I don't believe what you're saying; it's that you are just on the surface of what Paul taught. Don't stay there!

OK, I won't continue to argue over it.

 

[Hopeful]

Debate is always bad in scripture, no scripture shows it going a good direction. ( or show one ?)

How about the council in Jerusalem when they decided circumcision wasn't necessary for salvation? (Acts 15)
How about Paul and Barnabus before taking John on a missionary journey? (Acts 15:39)
How many times did Jesus have at it with the Sadducees and Pharisees?

Isaiah 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

Ever been with a group of brothers and everyone decided to go to the same restaurant at the same time?
"Debate" can be as simple as talking things over.
It doesn't have to end in a fist fight.

 

[Hopeful]

The way you read Paul's statements there is no free will for man, he is now under the effects of Christ and has to do nothing. He just goes on his way living for Christ without any problems.

When Paul said, "let not the sin nature reign in your mortal bodies" he meant exactly that. It can reign in you if you let it. It's still present, and will reign as a king if you don't mind the things of God.

You misinterpret Rom 6:12..."Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
There is no mention of any "nature".
If you keep sin out, it can't reign.
Besides, Rom 6:6 said the old man has been destroyed?
How could the old nature survive?

 

[Charlie24]

You misinterpret Rom 6:12..."Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
There is no mention of any "nature".
If you keep sin out, it can't reign.
Besides, Rom 6:6 said the old man has been destroyed?
How could the old nature survive?

The Greek word in Rom. 6:6 "destroyed" is "katargeo."

This is what it means. Most theologians agree that #1, in the bold, is the correct interpretation of this verse.

Strong's #2673: katargeo (pronounced kat-arg-eh'-o)

from 2596 and 691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively:--abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
katargeō

1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

1a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency

1b) to deprive of force, influence, power

2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

2a) to cease, to pass away, be done away

2b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one

2c) to terminate all intercourse with one



Part of Speech: verb

 

[Charlie24]

The Greek word in Rom. 6:6 "destroyed" is "katargeo."

This is what it means. Most theologians agree that #1, in the bold, is the correct interpretation of this verse.

Strong's #2673: katargeo (pronounced kat-arg-eh'-o)

from 2596 and 691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively:--abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
katargeō

1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

1a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency

1b) to deprive of force, influence, power

2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

2a) to cease, to pass away, be done away

2b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one

2c) to terminate all intercourse with one



Part of Speech: verb

Hopeful

If this is correct and I know it is, the sin nature is not destroyed as in being completely removed, but is placed in the state of dormancy, inactive. But as Paul has shown us, it can become active!