The Sin Nature

[Tenchi]

What happens, however, is that our love for God helps us incredibly not to sin.

As far as I can tell from Scripture, any attempt to abstain from sin that does not arise from a love for God is corrupt and not accepted by God. (Matthew 22:36-38; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

Just like our love for a husband makes us not want to create dismay in him...
so we do not desire to quench the Holy Spirit.
And it seems to me that we sin less and less...

I think truly godly love, the love that is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:22), is expressed, in part, in submission to God. There is no love of God, really, apart from taking the lower place before Him. He is God, after all. And as we are in such a place before our God, the Holy Spirit moves to transform us. So, love is absolutely vital to walking with God, but it must be godly love, characterized by submission, obedience, faithfulness, patience, etc., not just a semi-romantic feeling, or strong sense of affection.

I see it more as having had our perfect nature stained by Adam's sin.

Adam and Eve had an innocent nature but they did not have a perfect one - as their choice to sin illustrates. There is only One who is perfect.

God is now our master....but, being human and still possessing this "sin nature", although it is definitely under submission, we will always sin at times.

Christ isn't merely the believer's Master; he is their Life (Colossians 3:4; John 15:4-5; John 1:4, John 14:6, etc.). What do you think this means? I think it describes something much deeper, much more intimate, between the born-again believer and their God. (1 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 John 1:3; Philippians 1:21)

We are justified, and we are being sanctified, but we're not glorified yet...
and won't be until after death.

Well, we are both entirely justified and sanctified in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:2; 30). Spiritual maturity is working out these spiritual realities in our mundane, daily living (practical sanctification). You're correct that glorification is yet to come. I'm really looking forward to it!

 

[Hopeful]

None of us are sinners.
We are children of God.
I think I've already said this,
sorry if I'm repeating...been away a few days.

I agree that none of those reborn of God's seed commit sin, as 1 John 3:9 states.

 

[Hopeful]

If we are dead to the sin nature then it no longer has any authority over our behaviour.

This would translate into us not sinning in the practical sense.

Correct, sir !

 

[Hopeful]

We were discussing
1 John 2:1 , I had asked you what it meant to you. Sorry for the delay...
1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

I understand that John (who most believe did write his letters) was saying that we should not sin,
but IF we DO sin, then we have an advocate with the Father.

Not "us reborn of God and walking in the light", but the "anybody" who have yet to avail themselves of the Advocate.

Jesus is our redeemer, buying us back from satan, and Jesus is our atoning sacrifice.
So we should not sin, but if we do, Jesus will cover for us.

"If we do"?
That is an accommodation for more sin.

I understand a shield (your definition above) to be more in line with believing that Jesus will keep us from sinning. If this is what you mean, I'd have to disagree.

 

[Hopeful]

Well, I've been considering this matter for several decades now and I can't say I'm nearly as confident as you are about what is actually the case.



I see. Hmmm...I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. Let me explain:

First, you seem to be holding to a sort of "spiritual schizophrenia" where two completely opposite natures war with the born-again believer. Okay, so what do you with Paul's remark in his letter to the believers at Corinth:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (ESV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

A simple, straightforward reading of Paul here leads me to think, not that I've had new nature added to my old, carnal one, but that the old nature has passed away, replaced by a new one. Can you see how Paul's words here could be read this way?

Romans 6:6-7 (ESV)
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Paul indicates a pretty radical change in one's inner state-of-affairs, here. It isn't just that there are two "dogs" now inside of a believer, waiting to be fed and strengthened, to good or ill, but that the "old self" - who we are apart from God, carnal, selfish, and shortsighted - has been crucified and we are now "dead to sin and alive unto God" in Christ. Our "old self" isn't just hanging around with as much access to us as ever, waiting for us to feed it and make it grow, but was nailed to the cross of Christ and there held powerless.

And so, Paul never tells the believers at Rome to be careful which nature they feed, but, instead, tells them to count on their death to self being so, by faith standing unmoved upon the fully-accomplished truth of their freedom from Self and sin (Romans 6:11). Only as they "reckon it so" that they are already "dead to sin and alive unto God" will they ever begin to truly live in the freedom from sin that is their spiritual inheritance in Christ.

But Paul has another even more important command that he gives to the believers at Rome. In the same chapter in which he commands them to "reckon it so," Paul also commands the believers at Rome as follows:

Romans 6:12-13 (ESV)
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

It will do a believer little good to, by faith, count on their co-crucifixion with Christ while they are living unsubmitted to God, not having presented themselves to Him as "living sacrifices," and "slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:18) So long as any believer neglects to daily - often many times a day - submit themselves to God's control, they remain a rebel before Him. And so long as this is so, they cannot be filled with the Spirit and enjoy in him all the abundance of God (part of which is freedom from the power of Self and sin).

Years ago, I left off the unbiblical idea of the "two dogs" within me for what Paul actually wrote about living in freedom from Self and sin. And the result has been amazing - completely different from the constant struggle, and frequent failure, that plagued me when I held the view that you do about which nature I'll feed. It turns out, Paul really knew what he was talking about!

Bravo !
I agree completely.

You likely won't understand this but I'll say it anyway: What you've proposed here locates the responsibility for your spiritual success in you. You've made yourself the vital crux of what happens to you spiritually. If you don't feed the right "dog," it's all over. Was this how you came to Christ? Was it all up to you to move toward God when you were "dead in trespasses and sins," bound, as all unsaved people are, under the power of the World, the Flesh and the devil? (Ephesians 2:8-9) Did you contribute to your salvation? Did you play a part in your justification, sanctification and redemption? To all of these questions the Bible gives a resounding "No!" (1 Corinthians 1:30; Titus 3:5-8) Well, as you walk in fellowship with God you are still a recipient of His work upon you, the Spirit convicting, teaching, strengthening, comforting and transforming you (John 16:8; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Ephesians 3:16; Romans 8:13; 2 Corinthians 1:3-5; Galatians 5:22-23). Even after you're saved, it's still all God. Your "job," if you like, is to receive from God the regenerating life of Christ, remain by faith in who you are as a joint-heir in him, and then reflect His work in you. This is an entirely different way of walking with God than to shoulder the impossible burden of producing a godly result from your own human resources. But, like begets like. You can only beget more of yourself. Only God can make you godly. And so, Paul wrote the following:

Philippians 2:12-13 (ESV)
12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

We can only work out what God has first worked into us. And His doing so is contingent, not on our feeding one nature or another, but on our remaining, in love and faith, submitted before Him throughout every day. I hope one day you'll move deeply into this way of walking with God! It's the normal Christian life but so different, so much better, than the common experience of modern believers!

You have removed "us" from responsibility to submit to God.
In other words, you present the case that "it is on God to choose who will be saved" without our desire being evident
That I can't agree with.
God doesn't repent of sin for us: He gave the gift of repentance from sin to us for us to use !

 

[justbyfaith]

We are NOT PRONE to sinning.

We are prone to sinning BEFORE we are born again.
AFTER we are born again and walking by the spirit, we will NOT be prone to sinning.

This does not mean we will never sin again in our lives.
Saying we do not sin when Jesus made provision for it is being very proudful.

We have a few members here who state they never sin.
This is prideful.
Pride is itself a sin.
It is also boasting.
Boasting is itself a sin.

There are many sins we may not think of at the time we commit them...
but to God they are still sins.
This is also for Hopeful -


Adultery—Matthew 5:27-28, 32; 19:9, 18; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Hebrews 13:4; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Mark 7:21; John 8:1-11

Anger—Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 4:26, 31; 6:4; Colossians 3:8; James 1:19-20

Anger with one’s brother—Matthew 5:22

Arrogance—2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 4:6, 18,19; 5:2; 8:1; 13:4

Bitterness—Ephesians 4:31; Hebrews 12:15; Romans 2:24; 3:14; Acts 8:23; James 2:7

Blasphemy—Mark 8:38; Acts 18:6

Boasting—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Galatians 5:26; 1 Corinthians 4:7; 5:6

Brutality—2 Timothy 3:3

Brother going to Law against brother—1 Corinthians 6:1-7

Carousing—Romans 13:13; Galatians 5:21; 1 Peter 4:3

Clamor—Ephesians 4:31

Complaining—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Conceit—2 Timothy 3:4

Coveting—Mark 7:22; Ephesians 5:5; Acts 20:33; Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:1

Cowardice—Revelation 21:8

Deceit—Mark 7:22; Acts 13:10; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:10

Defrauding—1 Corinthians 6:7-8

Denying Christ—Matthew 10:33; Luke 12:9; 1 John 2:22-23

Desiring praise of men—John 12:43

Disobedience to parents—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Titus 3:3

Divisions—1 Corinthians 1:10

Divorce—Matthew 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18

Drinking parties—1 Peter 4:3

Drunkenness—Romans 13:13; 15: 13; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:10; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:3

Eating the Bread or drinking the Cup unworthily—1 Corinthians 11:27

Effeminacy—1 Corinthians 6:9

Enmities—Galatians 5:20

Envy—Mark 7:22; Galatians 5:26; Titus 3:3

Evil thoughts—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19

False witnessing—Matthew 15:19

Fathers, provoking children to wrath—Colossians 3:21

Fearfulness—Matthew 10:26, 28

Filthiness—Ephesians 4:3

Fleshliness–1 Corinthians 3:3

Foolishness—Mark 7:22; Titus 3:3

Foolish talking—Ephesians 5:4

Fornication (or sexual immorality)—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:19

Greed—Ephesians 4:19; 5:3; 2 Peter 2:14

Lust, lusting—1 Peter 4:3; Titus 3:3

Haters of God—Romans 1:30

Hatred—2 Timothy 3:3; Titus 3:3

Homosexuality—1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10; Romans 1:26-27

Hypocrisy—Matthew 23:13,23, 25; 23, 27,28, 29; Mark 12:15; Luke 12:1; Romans 12:9

Idolatry—1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9; Galatians 5:20; Revelations 21:8; Ephesians 5:5

Immorality (see also Fornication)—Galatians 5:19; Revelation 21:8; Ephesians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 6:13, 18

Impurity—Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5: 3, 5

Jealousy—Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; James 3:16

Jesting—Ephesians 5:4

Judging—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 2:1; 14:13; Luke 6:37 James 4:11

Knowing to do good but not doing it—James 4:17

Laying up treasures on earth—Matthew 6:19-21; 19:21; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Luke 12:21, 33; 18:22

Legal matters, court–1 Corinthians 6:1-6

Living for pleasure—2 Timothy 3:4

Lovers of self—2 Timothy 3:2

Loving another person more than Jesus—Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26

Lusting after a woman—Matthew 5:27-28; 1 Peter 4:3; Matthew 18:9

Lying—Revelation 21:8, 27; 22:15; Ephesians 4:25; Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:7

Malice—Romans 1:29; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 5:8; Titus 3:3; 2 Peter 2:1

Man praying or prophesying with head covered—1 Corinthians 11:4-16

Murder—Revelation 21:8; Mark 7:21; 5:21; 10: 19; 19:18; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Murmuring, complaining—Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Pride—Mark 7:22; 1 Peter 5:5, 6; James 4:6; Matthew 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18;14

Prostitution–1 Corinthians 615-16

Quarrels—James 4:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:11; 2 Timothy 2:23

Reviling—1 Corinthians 4:17; 5:11; 6:10; 5:11; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Peter 2:23

Sensuality—Galatians 5:19; Mark 7:22; Romans 13:13; 2 Corinthians 12:21; 1 Peter 4:3; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:2

Slander—Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Corinthians 4:13; Romans 1:30

Sorcery—Galatians 5:20; Revelation 21:8, 15; 9:21; 18:23

Speaking against the Holy Spirit—Matthew 12:32; Luke 12:10

Stealing—Ephesians 4:28; 13:9; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9

Strife, quarreling—Galatians 5:20; Romans 1:29; 13:13; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 1 Timothy 6:4

Swearing an oath—Matthew 6:34-37; James 5:12

Swindling—1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10

Thievery, theft—1 Corinthians 6:10; Mark 7:21; John 10:1, 8; 1 Peter 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Treachery—2 Timothy 3:4

Unbelief, lack of faith—James 1:6; Mark 9:24; Hebrews 3:12, 19; 1 Timothy 5:8; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; 7:13; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Titus 1:15; Revelation 21:8

Unforgiveness—Matthew 6:14-15; Mark 11:25-26

Ungodliness—Romans 1:18; 4:5; 5:6; 1 Timothy 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:16; Titus 2:12; 2 Peter 2:5, 6, 7

Ungratefulness—2 Tmothy 3:2; Romans 1:21; Luke 6:35; 2 Timothy 3:2

Unholiness—2 Timothy 3:2; Hebrews 12:14

Unrighteousness—Romans 1:18, 29; 2:8; 6:13; 1 John 1:9; 5:17; 1 Corinthians 6:9

Wickedness—Mark 7:22; Luke 11:39; Acts 8:22; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:8, 13; Ephesians 6:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 12; 2 Timothy 2:19

Woman cutting her hair short—1 Corinthians 1:14-15

Woman with her Head uncovered—1 Corinthians 11:5-16

Woman speaking or teaching in public—1 Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Corinthians 11:33-37

Wrath—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 2:8

Wrong–1 Corinthians 6:8

You have now come to the end of our list. We hope that you have found this to be enlightening and helpful. As you can see, the listing of sins here is much more complete and helpful than the previous one. Spend some time not only looking over this list but also use it for your own blessing. Also, you will want to use this to help and bless others you know. May God bless you!

–Richard Hollerman

www.Truediscipleship.com

​

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Saying that we have the power in Christ not to sin does not have its basis in pride but in faith.

In fact, we are to turn away from those who have a form of godliness but who deny the power thereof.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think it's pretty silly in light of what Scripture says to hold that a Christian cannot and will not sin. Just read 1 Corinthians, or Galatians, or 1 John 1:7-10, or Romans 7:15-24,

Just read 1 John 3:9, or 1 John 3:6 coupled with 1 John 2:17.

 

[justbyfaith]

The sin nature has not been taken out of the way!

Col 2:11 (nlt), When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

 

[Hopeful]

This is not true Hopeful.
Why would Jesus give us a way of escape if He knew we would never sin again?

John 20:23
23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Could you explain why you think Jesus gave the Apostles the above authority?

Gotta' remember that Jesus is talking to OT men who were still unaware of rebirth and the new creature.
He did, however, give the apostles, and us, the ability to forgive other's sins.
It is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38, Rom 3:25)

 

[justbyfaith]

We cannot live up to this.

It was meant for a couple of members on the forum who state that they never sin.

My point being that we can do pretty well with the big sins:
murder, lying, stealing, dishonoring our parents, etc.

But there are so many small sins that are still considered missing the mark by God.
It's impossible for any human being NOT to sin.

John said that we should not sin, but IF WE DO SIN, we have Jesus as our advocate with the Father.
This must surely mean that sin is still possible even after we're born again.
1 John 1 and 2

I will only say what is written in Romans 8:12 (nlt)...that we are not obligated to obey the sinful nature. And what it says in Romans 6:14...that sin shall not have dominion over me because I am not under the law but under grace.

 

[Hopeful]

H, you stated the correct meaning of REPENT, with which I agree,
and then you changed it...

I don't see how.

To repent means to turn and go the other way.
Turn from, as you put it.
Here is the problem, as I see it.
You did NOT repent from sin.
You did not TURN AWAY from sin.
You turned away from the evil one.

Don't they go hand-in-hand?
How can you turn from the evil one and not turn from sin too?

When we're born we're lost.
As adults we walk toward satan...we are under the sin nature.
We are slaves to the flesh.
Romans 6:16-18
16Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance.
18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
We decide, at some point, to serve God instead.
So we were walking toward the evil one...
now we turn and walk toward God.
We will no longer be slaves to our flesh, sin nature, concupiesence, but we will be slaves to God.
No where does it state that we will no longer ever sin again...
but that we are walking TOWARD GOD, and if we sin, we pick ourselves up and keep going.
This is why John and Jesus both told us that IF we sin, what we are to do.
I don't remember anyone saying we would never sin again, but that we are to walk by the spirit
and not by the flesh.

Romans 6:14 tells us that sin will not longer REIGN in our bodies,,,it does not tell us that it will be totally erradicated.
14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

It will no longer be our master...

Back to "turning from" sin...
"Repentance" can be from anything.
I can repent of driving East, or of buying Camay soap.
But, I repented of sin.
Paul puts it nicely in 2 Cor 12:21..."And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed."
I will add what Jesus said..."I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:32)

 

[Hopeful]

justbyfaith
Hopeful


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You have now come to the end of our list. We hope that you have found this to be enlightening and helpful. As you can see, the listing of sins here is much more complete and helpful than the previous one. Spend some time not only looking over this list but also use it for your own blessing. Also, you will want to use this to help and bless others you know. May God bless you!

–Richard Hollerman

www.Truediscipleship.com

​

OFFICIAL LIST OF SINS​

(NEW TESTAMENT)​

[Some of you may be interested in this list of sins. We did not originate the list but there are some helpful things here. We are aware that some of the terms are taken from the KJV and they have changed meanings since that time.

Sin is dreadfully evil and disastrous. It is “utterly sinful” (Romans 7:13b) and “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). And yet the average person treats sin in a very casual way and may not even be concerned at all about committing this offense against God! See what you think of the list. Could you add to the list? Or change it in any way? If we were to use a more recent and literal translation, we would change the wording of some of the points. RH]

Here, as laid out by the Sin book, are the 124 sins listed in the new testament (in alphabetical order). Definitions will accompany those that are not self-evident. Though I may edit it somewhat, all definitions are taken straight from the pamphlet. For those who are interested in context, the pamphlet lists the source of each. I will not list them here, but if you want to know email me. I’ll let you know whatever information you need to look it up.

ANYWAY, GET OUT PAPER AND A PENCIL AND SEE HOW YOU MEASURE UP!​

1. Abusers of Self: Self polluters, having unnatural lusts
2. Adultery (Note: Only for those who have been married)
3. Anger
4. Backbiters: Those who speak evil of those who are absent
5. Banqueting: A drinking party
6. Becoming a Stumbling Block to a Weak Brother Through Our Liberty: Taking liberty to do things without thinking of the effect on a weaker brother’s conscience.
7. Being Angry With One’s Brother: Expressing unkind thought or action toward others
8. Bitterness
9. Blasphemy
10. Boasting
11. Brawling
12. Brother Going to Law Against Brother: No definition given, so I’ll wing it. Bringing legal action against another. If someone has a better definition, please let me know.
13. Burying our Talents: Not making wise use of what God gave us
14. Calling One’s Brother A Fool: Ridiculing another
15. Chambering: Unmarried people living and sleeping together
16. Clamor: Loud, continued noises
17. Complaining
18. Contentious: Quarrelsome
19. Corrupt Communications: Unprofitable or impure language
20. Covenant Breakers: Lightly breaking a solemn or legal pact.
21. Covetousness
22. Craftiness: Cunningness
23. Debate
24. Deceit
25. Defiling the Body
26. Defraud
27. Denying Christ
28. Desiring the Praise of Men: Doing things to gain praise.
29. Despiteful
30. Dishonesty
31. Disobedience to Parents
32. Divisions: Forming splits or schisms in groups
33. Divorce
34. Double Tongued: Making insincere statements
35. Drunkenness
36. Eating the Bread, or Drinking The Lord’s Cup Unworthily: Taking communion while living in sin
37. Effeminate: Unmanly or womanish man.
38. Emulations: Ambition to excel
39. Envy
40. Evil Concupiscence: Longing or desire for forbidden things.
41. Evil Eye: Having selfish motives
42. Evil Thoughts: Worthless, injurious, or depraved thoughts
43. Extortion
44. Fathers Provoking Children to Wrath: Frustrating children through harsh treatment and/or failure to communicate.
45. Fearful: Discouraged, anxious, faithless
46. Filthiness
47. Filthy Lucre: Receiving personal gain through unrighteousness.
48. Finding Faults With Others While Having a Greater Fault Ourself
49. Foolishness
50. Foolish talking : Silliness.
51. Giving False Witness
52. Fornication
53. Giving Offense: Causing another to fall spiritually by our example.
54. Greediness
55. Guile: Deceit
56. Haters of God
57. Hatred
58. Having Evil Treasures in the Heart: (The definition doesn’t make any more sense).
59. Having Pleasure in Them That Do Things Worthy of Death: Enjoying the company of sinners.
60. Hearing the Sayings of Christ, but Not Following Them
61. Heresies: Religious opinion different from established Scripture.
62. Highmindedness: Arrogant
63. Hypocrisy
64. Idle Words: Words of no value.
65. Idolatry: Loving someone or something more than God.
66. Implacable: Refusing to be appeased
67. Inordinate Affection: Passion, lust.
68. Inventors of Evil Things: Those who contrive evil ways to satisfy their carnal lusts.
69. Jesting: Talking to make others laugh.
70. Judging
71. Knowing to Do Good, but Doing it Not
72. Lasciviousness: Lustful, wanton, exciting lust.
73. Laying Up Treasures on Earth: Pursuing material success at the expense of spiritual things.
74. Living in Pleasure: Fond of luxury and sensual pleasure/gratification.
75. Lovers of Self
76. Loving Another Person More Than Jesus
77. Lusting After a Woman
78. Lying
79. Maliciousness
80. Malignity: Being harmful or dangerous, bad character.
81. A Man Prophesying or Praying With His Head Covered.
82. Mockery
83. Murder
84. Murmuring: Grumbling, secretly complaining
85. Presumptuous
86. Pride: Self esteem.
87. Puffed Up: Overestimating of one’s ability or knowledge.
88. Purloining
89. Railing: Slander
90. Reveling: Overindulgence at feasts, merrymaking.
91. Rioting
92. Seditions: Stirring up opposition against authority.
93. Self Will: Arrogant
94. Speaking Against the Holy Spirit
95. Sorcery: Practicing magic with aid from evil spirits.
96. Speaking Evil of Dignities: Speaking ill of those to be honored.
97. Stealing
98. Stiff-Necked and Uncircumcised in Hearts and Ears: Obstinate
99. Strife: Quarreling, seeking superiority
100. Striker: Ready to Fight
101. Swearing: To take oath (as in court).
102. Teaching for Doctrine the Commandments of Men: Neglecting God’s commandments by manmade interpretation or commandments.
103. Traitors
104. Trusting in Riches
105. Not Entering by the Door Into the Sheepfold: Seeking salvation through means other than the blood of Christ.
106. Unbelief: Lack of faith.
107. Uncleanness
108. Unforgiving Heart
109. Unmerciful
110. Unrighteousness: Moral wrongfulness.
111. Unthankfulness
112. Vain Jangling: Babbling.
113. Variance: Strife
114. Voluntary Humility: False humilty.
115. Wantonness: Lustful, morally unrestrained.
116. Whisperers: Secretly spreading false or slanderous information.
117. Whoremongers: One who associates with whores, a male prostitute.
118. Witchcraft
119. Wickedness: Evil practices, crime.
120. Without Normal Affection: Hardhearted.
121. Without Understanding: Unwise
122. Wrath
123. Woman Cutting Her Hair
124. Woman Prophesying or Praying With Her Head Uncovered

http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/psuclass0/sinlist.html

I find it interesting that you start with "we are not prone to sinning", with the reason why, and then commence to list all the things we are NOT prone to.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree. You seemed to be saying something different.
I'd also say that once we know God, our nature changes in the sense that our sinful nature is put under submission to God and it is no longer our slave.

(Don't you mean "...our master"?)

Romans 6:13-14
13Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Hopeful]

How can anyone possibly measure up to this? Even debate is a sin? Women cutting their hair?

Didn't Jesus "debate"?
Please be aware that those who live according to God have "killed" that which "couldn't measure up" and are now new creatures who have been reborn of God's seed.
We can "measure up".

 

[Hopeful]

I don't look at it as though I have to sin, because I don' have to.

Christ set me free from the bondage of sin, Satan is no longer my master.

I have no desire to sin, but neither am I perfect or unable to sin!

If I'm not careful the old Charlie will come back and take over.

Sometimes I do or say something wondering where did that come from, but I know exactly where it came from. It's the old man trying to revive himself. Don't think for a minute that the old man can't come back.

But of course, if you are living a life of sin conscienseness, you already know what I'm talking about.

Thank God for verses like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Keep looking for the escapes !

 

[Riven]

Did Jesus "debate"?

I don't know.

 

[Hopeful]

The sin nature has often been compared to a tree. In the fall it lets go of its leaves and in the colder climate it shuts down, but does not die.

The surrounding conditions determine when this tree will shut down and be dormant.

So it is with the sin nature, the surrounding conditions determine when the tree is active or dormant.

If you feed the sin nature, it will reign, if you feed the divine nature, it will reign!

Don't you believe in rebirth? (1 John 3:9)
Don't you believe the old man was destroyed? (Rom 6:6)
Why would any part of the old man survive? (2 Cor 5:17)

 

[Hopeful]

I don't know.

Plenty.
Starting with His time away from His parents at Jerusalem when He was cited questioning the elders. (Luke 2:46)
And continuing throughout His ministry when He chastised the lawyers, Pharisees, and Sadducees.
(BTW, I changed my "Did..." to "Didn't..." in my post.)

Debate isn't always a bad thing.
It just means to discuss differing POVs.
It can, however, grow into a bad thing.

 

[gordon777]

Plenty.
Starting with His time away from His parents at Jerusalem when He was cited questioning the elders. (Luke 2:46)
And continuing throughout His ministry when He chastised the lawyers, Pharisees, and Sadducees.
(BTW, I changed my "Did..." to "Didn't..." in my post.)

Debate isn't always a bad thing.
It just means to discuss differing POVs.
It can, however, grow into a bad thing.

Debate is always bad in scripture, no scripture shows it going a good direction. ( or show one ?)


Isaiah 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

 

[Charlie24]

Well, I've been considering this matter for several decades now and I can't say I'm nearly as confident as you are about what is actually the case.



I see. Hmmm...I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. Let me explain:

First, you seem to be holding to a sort of "spiritual schizophrenia" where two completely opposite natures war with the born-again believer. Okay, so what do you with Paul's remark in his letter to the believers at Corinth:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (ESV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

A simple, straightforward reading of Paul here leads me to think, not that I've had new nature added to my old, carnal one, but that the old nature has passed away, replaced by a new one. Can you see how Paul's words here could be read this way?

Romans 6:6-7 (ESV)
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Paul indicates a pretty radical change in one's inner state-of-affairs, here. It isn't just that there are two "dogs" now inside of a believer, waiting to be fed and strengthened, to good or ill, but that the "old self" - who we are apart from God, carnal, selfish, and shortsighted - has been crucified and we are now "dead to sin and alive unto God" in Christ. Our "old self" isn't just hanging around with as much access to us as ever, waiting for us to feed it and make it grow, but was nailed to the cross of Christ and there held powerless.

And so, Paul never tells the believers at Rome to be careful which nature they feed, but, instead, tells them to count on their death to self being so, by faith standing unmoved upon the fully-accomplished truth of their freedom from Self and sin (Romans 6:11). Only as they "reckon it so" that they are already "dead to sin and alive unto God" will they ever begin to truly live in the freedom from sin that is their spiritual inheritance in Christ.

But Paul has another even more important command that he gives to the believers at Rome. In the same chapter in which he commands them to "reckon it so," Paul also commands the believers at Rome as follows:

Romans 6:12-13 (ESV)
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

It will do a believer little good to, by faith, count on their co-crucifixion with Christ while they are living unsubmitted to God, not having presented themselves to Him as "living sacrifices," and "slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:18) So long as any believer neglects to daily - often many times a day - submit themselves to God's control, they remain a rebel before Him. And so long as this is so, they cannot be filled with the Spirit and enjoy in him all the abundance of God (part of which is freedom from the power of Self and sin).

Years ago, I left off the unbiblical idea of the "two dogs" within me for what Paul actually wrote about living in freedom from Self and sin. And the result has been amazing - completely different from the constant struggle, and frequent failure, that plagued me when I held the view that you do about which nature I'll feed. It turns out, Paul really knew what he was talking about!



You likely won't understand this but I'll say it anyway: What you've proposed here locates the responsibility for your spiritual success in you. You've made yourself the vital crux of what happens to you spiritually. If you don't feed the right "dog," it's all over. Was this how you came to Christ? Was it all up to you to move toward God when you were "dead in trespasses and sins," bound, as all unsaved people are, under the power of the World, the Flesh and the devil? (Ephesians 2:8-9) Did you contribute to your salvation? Did you play a part in your justification, sanctification and redemption? To all of these questions the Bible gives a resounding "No!" (1 Corinthians 1:30; Titus 3:5-8) Well, as you walk in fellowship with God you are still a recipient of His work upon you, the Spirit convicting, teaching, strengthening, comforting and transforming you (John 16:8; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Ephesians 3:16; Romans 8:13; 2 Corinthians 1:3-5; Galatians 5:22-23). Even after you're saved, it's still all God. Your "job," if you like, is to receive from God the regenerating life of Christ, remain by faith in who you are as a joint-heir in him, and then reflect His work in you. This is an entirely different way of walking with God than to shoulder the impossible burden of producing a godly result from your own human resources. But, like begets like. You can only beget more of yourself. Only God can make you godly. And so, Paul wrote the following:

Philippians 2:12-13 (ESV)
12 ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

We can only work out what God has first worked into us. And His doing so is contingent, not on our feeding one nature or another, but on our remaining, in love and faith, submitted before Him throughout every day. I hope one day you'll move deeply into this way of walking with God! It's the normal Christian life but so different, so much better, than the common experience of modern believers!

The way you read Paul's statements there is no free will for man, he is now under the effects of Christ and has to do nothing. He just goes on his way living for Christ without any problems.

When Paul said, "let not the sin nature reign in your mortal bodies" he meant exactly that. It can reign in you if you let it. It's still present, and will reign as a king if you don't mind the things of God.