The Teachings of Jesus

[cyberjosh]

I do not agree. Loving the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, is a separate command, I believe. Jesus said so. Read Matthew 22:34-40.

Respectfully, go back and read the verses that I quoted from 1 John and then get back to me. You skipped right over them. Also I didn't say they were the same command, I said they were inseparable, meaning you cannot rightfully do one without also doing the other. This is the point you have been missing the entire thread.

P.S. Also, if you were concerned about Paul's stance on sin, I addressed that too.

 

[cyberjosh]

As a matter of fact, loving the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls is the great commandment. Right?

Yes indeed. And this is why when we are right with God we will also be right with our fellow man. You are seeing a contradiction that isn't there.

 

[cyberjosh]

Also Elijah, this is perhaps worthy of another thread, but I was a little confused and surprised when I saw you assert (and appear to be fine with) that Paul (or any Apostle) could be incorrect in holy Scripture. First of all, are you a Christian? What are your beliefs on inspiration of Scripture? Do you follow the doctrinal beliefs of any Church or just as you discern from Scripture?

We had a poster on this forum many many years ago named Georges who believed Paul was the ultimate false prophet sent to undermine and usurp the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He regarded Paul as a liar and even a type of Anti-Christ. That poor fellow was sadly deceived. One thing he didn't realize was that by casting aspersions on the integrity of Paul he also called into question the integrity of the whole New Testament. Because if Paul was not right then Luke may have recorded incorrect or even evil teachings or deeds of Paul in Acts, and if he recorded errant material in Acts then he may have recorded errant material in his Gospel of Luke, in which case many of the things that we thought we knew about Jesus are also called into doubt. Accusations of God's Apostles are not to be taken lightly.

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

It still seems clear to me that we cannot be happy unless we are sinless.

Perhaps if this is your main concern you should read John Piper's book Desiring God. His basic premise is that by wholly delighting ourselves in God we won't have any room for partaking in the "delights" of this world. You overcome a desire for the world by stirring in yourself a desire for God.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[francisdesales]

So I just read through this whole thread and noticed a few things that need to be addressed. First of all, francis brought up an important and good point that loving your neighbor and loving God are inseparable and go hand in hand - therefore Paul did not misspeak when he said loving your neighbor fulfills the law. What I was surprised at though is that in the 5 pages so far I haven't seen a single mention of 1 John which clearly addresses several of the issues raised so far in this thread. Read very carefully: "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20).

Glad to see someone was reading my post and my allusion to this verse earlier. I am at a loss as to how someone can say they love God, while not loving their neighbor, if they claim to be Christian. God made us in His image, and loving our neighbor is a Trinitarian image of the Love the Father has for the Son and the Spirit has within the Divine Godhead. We love God as we love our neighbor. Jesus Himself said so.

What commandment is the first of all? Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. The second is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Of a truth, Teacher, thou hast well said that he is one; and there is none other but he: and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is much more than all whole burnt-offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. Mark 12:28-3

Now, from this, we can see several things:

First, Jesus is not setting worship of God against love of neighbor. Nor does Jesus say there is "only one commandment". Secondly, the scribe combines the two into one comment, and Jesus rewards his interpretation as telling the scribe that "you are not far from the Kingdom of God". Apparently, understanding BOTH together places us closer to the Kingdom. To set the two apart and in contradiction to each other is to not have read the Gospels.

Further, as Josh points out, questioning Paul in such a manner casts a subtle doubt upon the veracity of Sacred Scriptures and Paul's writings as part of the inspired Word of God. As I said much earlier, the issue is not about Paul, but about our interpretations that have gone astray. Perhaps there is indeed a deeper issue than just attempting to erect a contradiction that does not exist - and it appears to be doubt in God's Word as inerrant.

Regards

 

[cyberjosh]

Hi Joe. Thanks for chiming in on this again.

Now, from this, we can see several things:

First, Jesus is not setting worship of God against love of neighbor. Nor does Jesus say there is "only one commandment". Secondly, the scribe combines the two into one comment, and Jesus rewards his interpretation as telling the scribe that "you are not far from the Kingdom of God". Apparently, understanding BOTH together places us closer to the Kingdom. To set the two apart and in contradiction to each other is to not have read the Gospels.

I think this is an excellent point. I had never thought about that before, about the scribe placing the two together like that. Good stuff.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[elijah23]

What are they? You stated they did, and I am interested to know what they are. I"m not sure why it's so hard for you to provide the verses.

I paid no attention to the verses because I had no interest in them. I believe it’s wrong to sin.

I imagine the verses that were being quoted are verses that tell us we are forgiven for our sin. Just because we are forgiven for our sin does not make it correct to sin.

 

[jasoncran]

I paid no attention to the verses because I had no interest in them. I believe it’s wrong to sin.

I imagine the verses that were being quoted are verses that tell us we are forgiven for our sin. Just because we are forgiven for our sin does not make it correct to sin.

whose saying we can ignore the commands given by the lord,we are saying that we need christ to do them and the walk isnt legalism.

trust me i loved porn and my innerman hated it, so i cried unto the lord and wanted deliverance. i had nothing to do with the stopping of porn. trust me i tried. and failed and failed.

he did it for me.

 

[theLords]

Jesus told us to repent and be perfect.
Jesus is God.
Paul is not God.
The Bible is not God.

The Bible is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God

Are the Scriptures the inerrant Word of God or not?

 

[elijah23]

Respectfully, go back and read the verses that I quoted from 1 John and then get back to me. You skipped right over them. Also I didn't say they were the same command, I said they were inseparable, meaning you cannot rightfully do one without also doing the other. This is the point you have been missing the entire thread.

P.S. Also, if you were concerned about Paul's stance on sin, I addressed that too.

The purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that many people, I believe, seem to center their religion on the Bible. I think this is wrong to do. I think we should center our religion on Jesus. The teachings of Jesus are found mainly in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It seems to me these people to a large extent ignore these four books. They argue that Paul was merely endorsing what Jesus had taught. That is no reason to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It is in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John where we are taught the great commandment. The great commandment is that we are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls. In other words, we are to develop a personal relationship with him. Right?

 

[elijah23]

First of all, are you a Christian?

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.

 

[elijah23]

What are your beliefs on inspiration of Scripture?

I do not believe Paul was perfect.

 

[elijah23]

Do you follow the doctrinal beliefs of any Church or just as you discern from Scripture?

My church has its conservatives and its liberals. Because of my staunch opposition to premarital sex and homosexuality, I am viewed by my church as a conservative. Because I do not believe Paul was perfect, I suspect you view me as a liberal.

 

[theLords]

I do not believe Paul was perfect.

It's a yes or no question. This answers alludes to "No, I do not believe the Bible is the inerrant and inspired Word of God."

This explains all of your threads

 

[elijah23]

It's a yes or no question. This answers alludes to "No, I do not believe the Bible is the inerrant and inspired Word of God."

This explains all of your threads

I believe in Jesus Christ and only Jesus Christ.

 

[theLords]

I believe in Jesus Christ and only Jesus Christ.

Let's try again Elijah.

Please answer this question with a YES or NO. Again, this question can only be answered with YES or NO.

YES or NO: Is the Bible the inerrant and inspired Word of God?

- Yes?
- No?

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by cyberjosh
What are your beliefs on inspiration of Scripture?

I do not believe Paul was perfect.

I believe this is your problem e23. All of scripture is God's perfect word, including the writings of Paul, whether you like it or not.

 

[Alabaster]

I do not believe Paul was perfect.

Neither did Paul. Why do you strive so hard in the natural to become what is impossible?

 

[Alabaster]

I paid no attention to the verses because I had no interest in them. I believe it’s wrong to sin.

I imagine the verses that were being quoted are verses that tell us we are forgiven for our sin. Just because we are forgiven for our sin does not make it correct to sin.

No born again, Bible believing Christian believes otherwise. You have obviously been sparring with hypocrites.

 

[Alabaster]

The purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that many people, I believe, seem to center their religion on the Bible. I think this is wrong to do. I think we should center our religion on Jesus. The teachings of Jesus are found mainly in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It seems to me these people to a large extent ignore these four books. They argue that Paul was merely endorsing what Jesus had taught. That is no reason to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It is in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John where we are taught the great commandment. The great commandment is that we are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls. In other words, we are to develop a personal relationship with him. Right?

You won't have any issues if you consider the entire volume of scripture as the word of God. Seeing as you choose to separate out the epistles and who knows what else, you will always have a spiritual issue. The entire body of scripture is God's message to you which He has created for you to develop an intimate relationship with Him.

Picking and choosing what you accept from His hand to yours will hinder that relationship.