What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The thess bashing thread

gingercat said:
Thess,

Because I don't want my thread "persecution" be shut down, I come here and tell you what you are doing in that thread.

You are very good at focusing away from the subjects when you don't like it. In fact, many of the forum posters are just like you. It is jungle out here and every where when it comes to spiritual war. I will fight the good fight for the Lord to speak up for Him.

I will not take your bait in the threads.

BTW, thank you for this thread. :D You created a monster. :wink:
Click to expand...

I did? I hate to tell you ginger, but your pretty good at derailing threads yourself. I liked your persecution thread by the way.

bait? I'm not baiting. I just respond to what people say. You responded to what I said so I guess you took the alleged bait.
 
Imigican, what does that post have to do with this thread? Seems you are trying to derail it. Ginger, chastise him for that (if you are impartial). Can't get to your link, sorry.
 
Imigican,

You miss my point about the persecutions. I know there were persecutions. Your posts won't tell me anything though many of them will distort the record. They will just be red herrings as persecutions do not prove truth or error. Your Arians in the early Church were worse persecuters than the Catholics of the time by a mile.
 
You argue like my 16 year old daughter :wink: I have to talk to her how to be a fair Christian constantly. but she is comitted to be a good Christian, so we still have harmony for the Lord. She is influenced by secular world a great deal. It is my job to direct her in the way she should go to keep her bow she made with the Lord. Thank you Jesus for your teachings. :angel:
 
By the way imigican, there is nothing that you will post I have not seen. :-?
 
thessalonian said:
By the way imigican, there is nothing that you will post I have not seen. :-?
Click to expand...

And I believe that you are probably right. This is why I have often stated that you know exactly what I am talking about. The Catholic Church itself denies little of what I offer as far as the torture and murder is concerned.

Now they would deny that they simply introduced Christ into their previous pagan ritual, but that is certainly to be expected. I wouldn't admit that I followed or served pagan gods either if I were trying to convice people that they too should follow my teachings.
 
Imagican said:
And here's another good source of information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
Click to expand...

That article has alot of inaccuracies and missing information. Does alot of handwaving as well. For instance it is a FACT that Spain had been bordered by Moslems for 700 years who wanted to take over the country and make it Moslem. That is why Rome and Ferdinand and Isabella were concerned and wanted an inquisition in part to root out Conversos who were trying to undermine the Church. Yes, there were errors made. Yes, some of the persecution got way out of hand. But let's tell the whole story. I like how you say Constantine was not Catholic but then the article pins his harsh dealings with Arians on the Catholic Church. And no Arian was not murdered. Are we going to deal with the harsh treatment of trinitarians by arians? I doudt you have given it much thought before.
 
Your article likes to pin all that was done on the Catholic Church and the clergy it seems. Thus all 13,000 or whatever the number was in spain were killed according to your sources by the Catholic Church. Imigican, do you have Romans 13 in your Bible or have you ripped it out? Ferdinand and Isabella had a duty to bring about order in their country, even by the SWORD! as did Constantine. It's in the Bible but apparently you don't want to believe it and want to pin this responsibility on the Catholic Church as persecution. Once again I am not denying that SOME priests and bishops were involved. But most of it was government action. Ferdinand and Isabella will be judged accordingly.
 
Imigican,

Do you think governments have a responsibility to keep order?

Were there persecutions conducted by people who think like you (deny Christ was God)?
 
I doubt it Thess, but then I don't know many that 'think' like I do. I believe the Word. Therefore, i am a firm believer that there is little 'law' that I could make up OR inforce that can take 'away' from what has been offered by God. For I know that when this life is finished, we WILL answer in the next. Laws indicate that our 'wrong doings' are against 'each other'. This is man's limited mentality. Our 'wrong doings' are an assault against God Himself, for we were ALL created by Him. So, with this in mind, there is NO need for persecution of ANY sort, but the offering of LOVE for our neihbors. If there be one that doesn't understand, they need MORE love than those that do.

I can not say how much persecution has been wrought against the CC. I know that there has been some, but I have read and heard of little, compared to the opposite. The fact that the RCC had the backing of the government is probably the 'main' reason.

Governments are needed to keep at least a symblance of order. But governments, in my opinion, by their very nature, are the inventions of men to govern men. Under this premiss, there should CERTAINLY be a separation of religion and state. That the state may base it's laws on religion is not a 'bad' thing, but to FORCE all under it's rule to follow 'their' religion is totally WRONG. Especially when said governments begins to think that it can determine that which is obvious that it can't. Matters such as worship and salvation are NOT capable of being CONTROLLED by man. Any attempt at this is nothing but FOOLISH pride.
 
I can not say how much persecution has been wrought against the CC. I know that there has been some, but I have read and heard of little, compared to the opposite. The fact that the RCC had the backing of the government is probably the 'main' reason.
Click to expand...

Actually if we look at the Arians around the time of Constantine there was a lot of persecution by Arians who thought like you regarding Christ. Don't make me post the evidence. Of course it sounds like you are already in denial. :D

My definition of foolish pride is thinking you are the one who has it right with your understanding and your Bible and that 2000 years of Christianity is wrong about the Trinity.
 
By the way Imagi, if 1% of the "Christians" have a view such as yours (actually I think that is high historically) on Christ but did an equal amount on a percentage basis of persecuting do you suppose that there would be more or less stories carried on until today regarding the amount of persecution they had done. i.e. would we have a biased view of who did more persecuting and as to what role persecution plays in determining the truth or error of doctrines? Do you get what I am driving at here?
 
Maybe I do, maybe I don't. Thess, WHY do you think that there are Protestants 'today'? If the Catholics had it 'right', why do you 'think' so many people revolted AGAINST the Catholic Church?
 
Oh, and to torture and murder people to force them to accept a doctrine of 'love' just ISN'T POSSIBLE Thess. Something was OBVIOUSLY wrong with their doctrine and it becomes apparent by their treatment of those that they were 'supposed' to sheppard over. They were supposed to LOVE those that were under their guidance, NOT torture and murder them. So SOMETHING in their doctrine must have been missing or screwed up for this to have taken place.
 
Thess

I know of ‘men of God’ who believe in the trinity. And I know a few that don’t. But none of them dare accuse the other of not being ‘saved’ or not being born again because they understand that our relationship with God is not based on mental assent to either position. What enables us to acknowledge Christ as our Lord & saviour is what our heavenly Father has already done. He has given us His Spirit. We are born of God. We are his children BECAUSE of what He has done. We believe BECAUSE we are born of God. We have faith BECAUSE we are his children. And it is by this faith that God has made us righteous.

On the other hand there are those who say that acceptance of Jesus as God and His Father as God and the Holy Spirit as God is a requirement in order that man may receive salvation. They say the Holy Spirit is given BECAUSE of what we believe. So once a person has come to acknowledge this they can become a child of God through a process of repentance on their part and forgiveness on God’s part. So then there is need to make a ‘decision’ to accept the ‘right’ understanding of who God is in order that one can be ‘saved’.

Now what I am saying is that the latter is based on ‘works’. It is based on human decision. It is based on a mental assent. It is based on what you say and do rather than on faith. Hence, there is no righteousness in this position. So if you persuade people to become ‘Christians’ by acceptance of what you say is the prerequisite, (whatever that may be) in order to be entitled to that position, then I am afraid to say that both you and they have been hoodwinked.

And this is not the exclusive domain of the roman catholic church.
 
See, now this IS understanding. Thank you Mutz. Coming to the conclusion that it is NOT MINE to demand what YOU must do in order to receive a gift that neither of us deserved to begin with. We are ALL to humble ourselves to the Father instead of trying to manipulate each other with our individual understanding. As the 'gifts' will vary from individual to individual SO TO will understanding. The basics are irrefuatable, but the 'deeper' understanding will be offered according to the Spirit and there's NOTHING that one can do to bring a 'deeper' understanding to one that has NOT been chosen for this to be revealed to.

As Mutz has pointed out: To insist that I MUST accept and worship 'trinity' is to say that YOUR, (man's), way, is more important than God's way. And there can be NO LOVE offered by one that insist to be accepted EVERYONE MUST do it 'their' way.

What I have tried to point out is that 'trinity' is 'man-made'. I have NEVER insisted that those that follow this doctrine are lost. I don't know the answer to this. God has forgiven man for atrocities that probably go light years beyond a simple, misdirected understanding. But I know the Father and I know the Son, and I have directly experienced the Spirit. For those that insist on 'trinity' to TELL me that this is impossibe proves to me that the Spirit must NOT be dwelling in them for if it were, they would be unable to deny such things.

ours is to LOVE, folks. Not to attempt to label others as heretics. And, if one WERE to find another that was confused about God or His Son, OURS is to pray ALL THE HARDER that these would have the 'truth' revealed to them and accept it. Ours is NOT to brow beat them by accusing them of being LOST or attempting to 'voodoo' them into hell. Ous is to love our brothers and sisters and through this love offer the example that Christ offered to us. And, hopefully, through this example those that are witnesses to it, will be touched and WANT to be a part of the same.
 
ours is to LOVE, folks. Not to attempt to label others as heretics.
Click to expand...

Ah can't we all just get along. Wonderful relativisim.

I've not called you heretics. (I hold hope that you are just ignornorant and not willfully rejecting the word of God) I've not said if you died this moment you would go to hell. I leave this up to God. But one who does not hold to the trinity is not Christian. Sorry that bothers you. If you were secure in your position it would not. Truth matters. It can be known. If you do not believe in the trinity you do not know the truth. :crying:

By the way, cornelius was said to be a righteous man BEFORE he knew of the trinity or even of Jesus. He was in ignorance of it. God did not judge him for it.

Acts 10
30]
And Cornelius said, "Four days ago, about this hour, I was keeping the ninth hour of prayer in my house; and behold, a man stood before me in bright apparel,
[31] saying, `Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.
[32] Send therefore to Joppa and ask for Simon who is called Peter; he is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the seaside.'
[33] So I sent to you at once, and you have been kind enough to come. Now therefore we are all here present in the sight of God, to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."
[34]
And Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality,
[35] but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top