The things which are... and the things which shall be hereafter...

[jasoncran]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

According to your stated beliefs, this is impossible... Because you have already made it clear that you believe that the resurrection has NOT happened yet, and therefore the LORD could not have come with all His saints.

You're contradicting yourself.

well then tell me why you dont believe luke when he says when you see the army around jerusalem that it falls and is under the gentiles rule even now? why is changed now when theres no reason for them to repent as they these jews didnt do that to god? why would god avenge himself agaisnt isreal the second time and scatter them? see that verse i posted.

 

[Eventide]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

well then tell me why you dont believe luke when he says when you see the army around jerusalem that it falls and is under the gentiles rule even now? why is changed now when theres no reason for them to repent as they these jews didnt do that to god? why would god avenge himself agaisnt isreal the second time and scatter them? see that verse i posted.

Sure, as soon as you explain how the Lord came with all His saints in 70 AD if the resurrection has not happened yet.

 

[jasoncran]

did you ever think that he is describing two events one for the whole earth and the city of jerusalem which i beleive btw.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

hmm immediately after? hmm so this hasnt happened and yet you say that it will be all at one. this last verse says the trumpet and what does the rapture verses say? he shall come with a shout a trump? hmm after the seven year trib.

so i think we are inbetween this fall of jerusalem and now.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

Sure, as soon as you explain how the Lord came with all His saints in 70 AD if the resurrection has not happened yet.

well then i guess you cant as well youi dont believe that the army there is destroyed by the Lord. which is it isnt. for if you take it again as said then theres no new national isreal is there. he doesnt defend them at all. he judges them.

 

[Eventide]

For right now I'd appreciate it if you would explain how the LORD came with all His saints in 70 AD if the resurrection has not happened yet.

I'm sure you won't though.

 

[jasoncran]

For right now I'd appreciate it if you would explain how the LORD came with all His saints in 70 AD if the resurrection has not happened yet.

I'm sure you won't though.

when you can see that isreal isnt saved as you teach then talk. but i know you wont. adam clarke has that all in ad 70 and localised it to that event. i can see that.

http://studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=mt&chapter=24&verse=21

i do find those that say that the church hated jews and then says in the same breath that the nation of america was founded on christ odd. since many a christians use clarke and henry's commentaries.

after some studying that its possible that clarke being that he didnt beleive the final judgement has come. he said that part of the gospel was done in the destruction of ad 70.

 

[Eventide]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Notice how that DAY consists of seasons..summer and winter etc....

This is because the last day (The Day of the LORD, The Day of Jesus Christ) will be a thousand years.

 

[Eventide]

Revelation 20

A very important piece of Revelation 20 is that it is contextually tied to Revelation 19... Which describes the marriage of the Lamb and then the COMING of the LORD with His saints.

So... It's impossible for Revelation 20 to be 'past' tense.. You'd have to believe that the resurrection is past already, the marriage of the Lamb, and the coming of Christ are already past.

So where does this leave amillennialism ?

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Revelation 20

A very important piece of Revelation 20 is that it is contextually tied to Revelation 19... Which describes the marriage of the Lamb and then the COMING of the LORD with His saints.

So... It's impossible for Revelation 20 to be 'past' tense.. You'd have to believe that the resurrection is past already, the marriage of the Lamb, and the coming of Christ are already past.

So where does this leave amillennialism ?

first i want to correct myself. matthew 24 doesnt talk of the end of age for the whole world but mainly isreal. jesus goes later into a parable of where the days of noe are stated that means its global.

its said that book of john is very much like the book of exodus. if we take the destruction of egypt and redemption of the hebrews from them and then take the idea of the destruction of jerusalem then what do we get. a people redeemed(purchased) and what does reedem always mean? purchased!

so when jesus says look for they redemption draweth nigh. if that is to be your way then tell me why does the language of that verse on the the gathering of the saints look nothing like the rapture? remember the saints in this trib are also in his body and are as much saved as you and i. when will they get their new bodies?

 

[Eventide]

Jason, does trolling mean anything to you.. That's all you're doing here.

Seeing that you refuse to answer any of my questions.. What makes you think that I would answer yours ?

So if you persist in being a troll, then I'll simply ignore you.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, does trolling mean anything to you.. That's all you're doing here.

Seeing that you refuse to answer any of my questions.. What makes you think that I would answer yours ?

So if you persist in being a troll, then I'll simply ignore you.

i have you dont want to see that i have.
there is a difference tween being redeemed and ressurected bodily. one is that when you repent you are reedemed and ressurected. didnt you 'die" when god came to save you. and its that process that is completed. the old man is put to death at the cross. that is finnally compled when our lord comes back to finish what he started at the cross. he came to redeem the earth and man died for that.if you want to insist that you are dead and sinner who is sin and not saved until you have that new body then by me guest. i have learned that what i do good or bad cant add to or take from the cross and its power. do you disagree with that?

now then if you would like i can flood you with a ton of scriptural errs futurists ignore in their eschatology.

should i go ahead an point out the errors of the ezekiel temple in said premillanial doctrine?so instead i slow it down for you. i have done a lot of looking into this.

i have posted links to the history of it, warned you of the fact that some christains have sided with jewish zionism and allowed that to affect bible doctrine. i am a jew what you have said to me is this. you will be in the rapture thus not in the promised land for the jews. Yet im a jew. if a jew saved isnt in isreal then how can the jew saved in the trib be in isreal? its same plan for both me and them.they repent i repent at the cross. hmm so why is that so hard for you to see that is a dual gospel?

 

[Eventide]

i have you dont want to see that i have.

The sad thing about this is that you probably actually believe it.

I told you.. consider yourself ignored.

 

[Eventide]

The night is far spent... the DAY is at hand...

Ever notice how the NT shifts back to JEWISH context following the letters of the Apostle to the GENTILES..

After Paul's letters to the church of God.. notice how it shifts to all of the Apostles to the Circumcision.. ie, Jews.

Hebrews kicks it off.. then there's PETER, JAMES, and JOHN writing the closing books of the NT..

Interesting, isn't it..

This is because when the LORD has finished building His church, and the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. that the DELIVERER (not destroyer) shall COME from Sion and will turn ungodliness from JACOB..

That's right, Jacob (Israel).. the one who wrestled with God all night and then in the morning of that DAY..

The Sun rose upon him..

Can You See That Day Approaching... ?

 

[jasoncran]

The sad thing about this is that you probably actually believe it.

I told you.. consider yourself ignored.

suit your self but you said this

Right now it would be interesting to discuss WHERE the church of God is taken after meeting the LORD in the air as described in 1 Thess 4.

I think that Genesis 24 answers the question for us..

hmm so that theres no confustion here. where is the believeing jews in this? hmm paul is in the rapture as he is a dead christian.

so if jesus is to return then for isreal and theres gentiles there and the gentiles arent hebrews (and yes i was taught that they are gentile saved) after all the bride isnt isreal in your thought but yet jesus says its all who believed which i made clear.

the marriage supper is for both jews and the church. this why i reject double dispenstation

 

[Eventide]

Bible Wheel

Ever notice how the NT shifts back to JEWISH context following the letters of the Apostle to the GENTILES..

After Paul's letters to the church of God.. notice how it shifts to all of the Apostles to the Circumcision.. ie, Jews.

Hebrews kicks it off.. then there's PETER, JAMES, and JOHN writing the closing books of the NT..

Interesting, isn't it..

This is because when the LORD has finished building His church, and the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. that the DELIVERER (not destroyer) shall COME from Sion and will turn ungodliness from JACOB..

That's right, Jacob (Israel).. the one who wrestled with God all night and then in the morning of that DAY..

The Sun rose upon him..

Can You See That Day Approaching... ?

Here's a pretty cool aspect of the Holy scriptures captured by a brother who simply studied its structure for many years.. imo it's another aspect of the limitless and miraculous nature of the holy scriptures.

To the eternal glory and praise of our Lord Jesus Christ..

Check it out here; http://www.biblewheel.com/wheel/intro.asp

 

[reba]

Re: Matthew 25..

Then there's Matthew 25 which speaks of the Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory..

It's a shame that will only last 24 hours.. but hey, at least He will be king over all the earth in that short time.. ;-)

Come, enter into the kingdom prepared for thee.. but hurry up.. we only got 24 hours..

Gotta admit, that is pretty funny.

He has always been King. Always will be King.

Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The scriptures are very well written.... You and i could most likely use the same passages to support our thoughts! What a cool Book.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[reba]

Jesus says this....

Luk 22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

And later this...
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

[jasoncran]

wow it says inside us! just like the sages and my favorite hebrew commentary said God's temple would be like in the messianic era!

 

[Eventide]

Re: Matthew 25..

He has always been King. Always will be King.

If you're implying tha the Lord Jesus Christ is already King over all the earth... Then Houston we have a problem...

That would mean that the Day of the Lord has already come, that the resurrection is past, and that the Lord has already come with all His saints..

Is that what you believe Reba ?

 

[Eventide]

things which shall be hereafter...

We can be sure that the beast and the false prophet actually do pertain to the things which shall be hereafter simply because they are both cast into the lake of fire when the Lord comes with His saints, as detailed in Rev 19.

This is also revealed to us in 2 Thess 2; where there it says that the man of sin shall be destroyed by the brightness of His coming..

Then, as mentioned.. Rev 20 is contextually tied to Rev 19 and must therefore also pertain to the things which shall be, here... after..

After the things which are...