The things which are... and the things which shall be hereafter...

[reba]

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jesus plainly says the resurrection IS the last day HE is not saying last days but last day... so what comes after the last day...

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Eventide]

THY KINGDOM COME...

Jesus plainly says the resurrection IS the last day HE is not saying last days but last day... so what comes after the last day...

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

I agree !

Although please correct me if I'm wrong... I'm assuming that you're thinking of a 24 hour period as the last day.. is that right ?

Peter (the Apostle to the Jews) reminds us to not be ignorant of this one thing... that a day is with the LORD as a thousand years, and a thousand years as ONE DAY..

The LAST DAY is the 7th Day, when God rested from all His work.. and all those who have trusted in Him by faith will enter into THAT DAY of rest...

Now where might we see scripture speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ reigning on earth for a thousand years..? Right there in Rev 20 of course... right after we read of His COMING in chapter 19..

Matthew 25 is another wonderous picture of this day.. when He COMES in His glory and then sits upon the throne of His glory.. and when He says... come, enter into the KINGDOM prepared from the foundation of the world..

I can't understand why it's so strange to some that the Lord is coming back to HIS own earth and be KING over all the earth in that DAY.. the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.. which shall come as travail upon a WOMAN WITH CHILD... hmmm, where have we read of THAT..

IMO it's all staggering to say the least..

 

[jasoncran]

See Jason,

I told you so.. not a single verse of scripture to support your 'stated belief' that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming again in the future..

Evidently you're a full preterist if you can't show one verse which is future...

no sir i didnt say that the ressurection came to be. it hasnt that makes me not a full preterist.

thats like me telling you what you believe according to my argument. kindly learn and read what i say and then rebut.

those verses that you teach and believe that support the rapture mention a bodily ressurection.

its clear in corinthians this corruptable must put incoruptable. a death so to speak must happen to us all. we are transform in the twinkling of an eye.my church being of you thought teaches a bodily ressurection! does yours? that said how and when are those in the trib raised to live again that died? when they did recieve the new body? it says when he comes that all that are there recieve this not some, but all that are alive. all does mean all does it not?

 

[Eventide]

Congratulations Jason, you're a futurist like most professing Christians.. ;-)

And since you believe that the resurrection has not happened yet, then Christ could not have returned yet.. because Paul tells us plainly that this is when WE will be resurrected..

At HIS COMING..

 

[jasoncran]

Congratulations Jason, you're a futurist like most professing Christians.. ;-)

And since you believe that the resurrection has not happened yet, then Christ could not have returned yet.. because Paul tells us plainly that this is when WE will be resurrected..

At HIS COMING..

the final and one coming where theres no rapture. just a simulatenous judgment and raising of the dead and transforming all at once then either a thousand year reign of the lord with no sinners and only saints as taught by the apostles in the oldest form of the chialism..or not. im not so sure that even that is the case. some links say nay to that others do.

that is why i remain close to amil. i dont see a judgment then some form of grace for those that were decieved as the ac if that is the case had to deceive all men but the elect.

 

[Eventide]

the final and one coming where theres no rapture..

People get caught up in the rapture and hence all the media and literary hype surrounding it etc.. although regardless of what it is called.. it's a biblical fact straight from 1 Thess 4.. and it too speaks of the resurrection of the dead IN CHRIST..

It's fine to debate the TIMING of the rapture, although it's futile to suggest or imply that it won't happen.. like you said.. in the twinkling of an eye..

Ever hear that song by Mercy Me.. "In the Blink of an Eye"..

Love it !

 

[jasoncran]

People get caught up in the rapture and hence all the media and literary hype surrounding it etc.. although regardless of what it is called.. it's a biblical fact straight from 1 Thess 4.. and it too speaks of the resurrection of the dead IN CHRIST..

It's fine to debate the TIMING of the rapture, although it's futile to suggest or imply that it won't happen.. like you said.. in the twinkling of an eye..

Ever hear that song by Mercy Me.. "In the Blink of an Eye"..

Love it !

so you dont believe in the trib? that somehow theres no difference tween isreal and gentiles today in christ? surely you do. you say the the church is raptured so that god can deal with isreal.

that is my biggest problem with modern day eschatology!

 

[Eventide]

how ye ought to walk and to please God...

Wanna know something marvelous about the famous chapter concerning the rapture... ie 1 Thess 4..

It begins by admonishing us how we are to walk and to please God... and wouldn't you know.. that's exactly what Enoch did and God took him...

Marvelous, isn't it..?

In the Blink of an Eye...

 

[Eventide]

Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

so you dont believe in the trib? that somehow theres no difference tween isreal and gentiles today in christ? surely you do. you say the the church is raptured so that god can deal with isreal.

that is my biggest problem with modern day eschatology!

IMO it is the BIGGEST problem in Christendom today... IGNORING the mystery pertaining to ISRAEL and failure to understand the enormous distinction between the Israel of God and the church of God..

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

IMO it is the BIGGEST problem in Christendom today... IGNORING the mystery pertaining to ISRAEL and failure to understand the enormous distinction between the Israel of God and the church of God..

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

so you agree?

1) no trib of any type
2) when the lord returns all are judge and raised for that and the saved are changed
3) isreal then is formed from all believing hebrews and the tribes revealed then?

or you dont believing that the jews in said trib are believes and adopted to the spiritual family and then under new convenant and is the bride too?

 

[jasoncran]

Re: how ye ought to walk and to please God...

Wanna know something marvelous about the famous chapter concerning the rapture... ie 1 Thess 4..

It begins by admonishing us how we are to walk and to please God... and wouldn't you know.. that's exactly what Enoch did and God took him...

Marvelous, isn't it..?

In the Blink of an Eye...

sorry, no enoch was a gentile not a jew.

the images of the two witness allude to zechariah 4 and those have to olive trees in the shape of a menorah and also are filled with another olive trees oil.

4 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.
2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth

 

[Eventide]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

so you agree?

1) no trib of any type

Never said that... there's certainly going to be a tribulation upon the whole earth.. read Dan 12 and then see how it relates to Rev 12..

2) when the lord returns all are judge and raised for that and the saved are changed

No AGAIN, there's a thousand years between the first resurrection..

3) isreal then is formed from all believing hebrews and the tribes revealed then?

or you dont believing that the jews in said trib are believes and adopted to the spiritual family and then under new convenant and is the bride too?

Not sure what you're talking about here.. so to be safe I'll say no.. lol

 

[Eventide]

Re: how ye ought to walk and to please God...

sorry, no enoch was a gentile not a jew.

Exactly, the rapture of the church of God has nothing to do with national Israel..

 

[jasoncran]

Re: how ye ought to walk and to please God...

Exactly, the rapture of the church of God has nothing to do with national Israel..

so im not of the church nor are the apostles who are the foundation of the faith you have? think about it. two gospels indeed. one for the jew of whit i am and the the gentile of whit ye are. that makes no sense. jesus said we and paul said we.hmm and well look at whom he said that he coming back for his bride and said that parable to ? THE JEWS. so how can that be if he is saying it your way. paul is dead and peter are they not going to be there awating us in heaven? or as i say meeting us with us on the earth.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

Never said that... there's certainly going to be a tribulation upon the whole earth.. read Dan 12 and then see how it relates to Rev 12..



No AGAIN, there's a thousand years between the first resurrection..



Not sure what you're talking about here.. so to be safe I'll say no.. lol

that is called the general trib and well the saints have died for there faith since jesus left the earth for heaven in acts 1. no i meant who will be the sinners in the millenium and how will they not be judged as they didnt repent? their kids? hardly likely as that is because if they are innocent and too young they arent sinners and well i dont know about those when he returns. it makes no sense to me that god would judge them and them alone in some chance to repent and not include all dead children to do so.

the jews in this trib are going to do what to be saved? repent and if they are then they are what? believed for there is one hope, one faith and one baptism. so if theres a baptismal there then what? they arent baptist under the trinity? hmm if we aren in christ and they doesnt that make us and them both the church? and the body?

 

[Eventide]

Re: how ye ought to walk and to please God...

so im not of the church nor are the apostles who are the foundation of the faith you have? think about it. two gospels indeed. one for the jew of whit i am and the the gentile of whit ye are. that makes no sense. jesus said we and paul said we.hmm and well look at whom he said that he coming back for his bride and said that parable to ? THE JEWS. so how can that be if he is saying it your way. paul is dead and peter are they not going to be there awating us in heaven? or as i say meeting us with us on the earth.

It's obvious to me that you're resorting to putting words in my mouth that I haven't mentioned, not even one time.. I've told you before that I can understand your need to associate me with some radical group which you may have been involved with in the past.. although I'm not.. I've simply shared numerous scripture passages which are nothing more than sharing an opinion of my views on things.. if you'd like me to continue, please address what I have said and please stop assuming that I'm some radical from your past.. OK..

 

[Eventide]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

that is called the general trib and well the saints have died for there faith since jesus left the earth for heaven in acts 1. no i meant who will be the sinners in the millenium and how will they not be judged as they didnt repent? their kids? hardly likely as that is because if they are innocent and too young they arent sinners and well i dont know about those when he returns. it makes no sense to me that god would judge them and them alone in some chance to repent and not include all dead children to do so.

the jews in this trib are going to do what to be saved? repent and if they are then they are what? believed for there is one hope, one faith and one baptism. so if theres a baptismal there then what? they arent baptist under the trinity? hmm if we aren in christ and they doesnt that make us and them both the church? and the body?

IMO, until you make a distinction between the church of God (a heavenly entity) and the Israel of God (an earthly one), then you're going to be confused about eschatology.. again, that's my opinion.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

IMO, until you make a distinction between the church of God (a heavenly entity) and the Israel of God (an earthly one), then you're going to be confused about eschatology.. again, that's my opinion.

no im not

you are.if a jew believes where does he fit?if before the rapture as i have posted in this thread he doesnt see his land at all as after the new heaveans and earth theres no isreal at all. if we take it your way. god lands new jerusalem on the earth and theres no seas at all. hmm isreal has the dead sea and the sea of gallilee. those are gone. yet if said hebrew believes then the goes the throught the seven year period after the rapture and does what teaches the gentile.

btw your millenialism teaches what the jews of today believe that isreal would be the light unto the world. how cant that be? the church wasnt enough? she was too weak to do it the blood isnt enough.

i dont believe in a literal temple like that but i do see the tree and river of life as i cant just spritualise them yet. the temple being that size and what also is said about the sun and moon are mentioned in isaih and to the jews that means that the torah will be changed to mean an inward thing as per jermemiah 31. they shall see god as he will be right there in front him and they shall all know him. meaning that the law as they do it is over and they can see the YHWH face to face. we are in that age already.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: how ye ought to walk and to please God...

It's obvious to me that you're resorting to putting words in my mouth that I haven't mentioned, not even one time.. I've told you before that I can understand your need to associate me with some radical group which you may have been involved with in the past.. although I'm not.. I've simply shared numerous scripture passages which are nothing more than sharing an opinion of my views on things.. if you'd like me to continue, please address what I have said and please stop assuming that I'm some radical from your past.. OK..

im sorry im taking your where all these go and come from. the dallas theoligical seminary where all others bible colleges get it from. your pastor has been to bible college right? if you do know show me where

heres where my church does it at its called lee university

http://www.leeuniversity.edu/about/miscellaneous/doctrinal-beliefs.aspx

almost the same as this

http://www.dts.edu/about/doctrinalstatement/

this says the church has both jews and gentile. now you have complained that i have said you two gospels right? so what makes you think that isreal isnt for me then if of the church and the jews are of this new convenant as well.?

 

[Eventide]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

no im not

you are..

Then we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.