The things which are... and the things which shall be hereafter...

[jasoncran]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

Then we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

food for thought. when ever you do look for the bible and what it does say as i had to when i was postulated this stuff by hitch and reba.google cyris schofield and the the jewish zionist movement and then tell me how we have it wrong. i love modern isreal as they are family but i see no modern prophecy fulfilled in them for many a reasons.

1) whenever god gave isreal the land back they already had repented, modern isreal still denies jesus as whole
2) they dont even follow the torah like the sages taught them and have allowed a secualar goverment


this denies what isreal is and was.i understand why they do it but if isreal is his and he was their king or judge then they wouldnt allow freedom of religion. modern isreal is cultural jewish state that allows freedom of religion.

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Earthly things (Israel) and heavenly things.. (church of God)..

food for thought. when ever you do look for the bible and what it does say as i had to when i was postulated this stuff by hitch and reba.google cyris schofield and the the jewish zionist movement and then tell me how we have it wrong. i love modern isreal as they are family but i see no modern prophecy fulfilled in them for many a reasons.

1) whenever god gave isreal the land back they already had repented, modern isreal still denies jesus as whole
2) they dont even follow the torah like the sages taught them and have allowed a secualar goverment


this denies what isreal is and was.i understand why they do it but if isreal is his and he was their king or judge then they wouldnt allow freedom of religion. modern isreal is cultural jewish state that allows freedom of religion.

take note.it will lead you to some anti-semetic sites. i was going to post them here but i found a few. but i have one that will nuke that doctrine quite well.

http://www.theologue.org/CIScofield-SSizer.htm#mozTocId538636

 

[Eventide]

in closing...

I find it amazing too that the NT closes with the Bright and Morning Star appearing... whereas the OT (written primarily to Israel) closes with the Sun of Righteousness arising with healing in His wings..

The bright and morning star appears BEFORE the break of DAY..

The Sun arises in the DAY..

 

[jasoncran]

Schuyler English, in his 1967 revision of the Scofield Reference Bible, consistently adds to Scofield's original notes to give a more explicit dispensational reading of key texts. In many cases references to contemporary Israel are appended to verses on which Scofield originally made no comment at all. So, to Genesis 12:7, Schuyler English adds,
(12:7) The verb 'give' appears over 1000 times in the Bible, with greatest frequency in relation to God giving the land of Palestine to his people Israel, a truth here announced for the first time but repeated in nearly 150 passages in the O.T...139
One may legitimately ask for evidence of the same promise being made in the New Testament. Again, on Deuteronomy 30:5, Schuyler English adds the following innovation,
No passage of Scripture has found fuller confirmation in the events of history than Dt. 28 - 30. In A.D. 70 the Jewish nation was scattered throughout the world because of disobedience and rejection of Christ. In world-wide dispersion they experienced exactly the punishments foretold by Moses. On the other hand, when the nation walked in conformity with the will of God, it enjoyed the blessing and protection of God. In the twentieth century the exiled people were restored to their homeland.140
No attempt is made to explain the apparent contradiction in Israel's continued 'disobedience and rejection of Christ' and their restoration, 'to their homeland,' other than to insist the promises made to Israel have been 'postponed' during this church age. Ironically, the attempt by Scofield's revisers to make Deuteronomy 30:1-6 speak of a final restoration to the land is actually undermined just a few verses further on in Deuteronomy 30:11-20 where Moses reiterates the same warning.
But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess. This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. (Deuteronomy 30,17-19)
Not surprisingly, no notes are included in any version of Scofield for this passage. Scofield's dispensational hermeneutic nevertheless requires a futuristic interpretation of this passage on the grounds that Israel has never yet received all the land allegedly 'unconditionally' and literally promised under the Abrahamic Covenant. Therefore, Scofield insists, logically, she must do so one day. So, in paragraph headings to Isaiah 11, he adds the bold assertion that these verses speak of, 'The vision of the Jewish remnant in the great tribulation' for vv. 20-27 and, 'The approach of the Gentile hosts to the battle of Armageddon.' for vv. 28-34. Then in a footnote to Isaiah 11 Scofield writes,

from that link.

as a jew i should make a point to know the torah for its my past and MY HERITAGE. yet modern isreal clearly as a NATION hasnt said barahba beshem adonai.
that cant be as each time the nation in the ot has repented and come to do what the lord said they are to do and were delivered and returned. see the book of judges and also the ezra and nehemiah.

 

[Eventide]

In the volume of the book it is written of ME...

Another marvelous aspect to 'these things' is that it was all foretold, centuries ago, even from the ancient texts of Genesis..

We all know the story of Joseph.. the son of Israel's (Jacob) old age.. loved by his father and hated by his own brethren.. they threw him into a pit and sold him to the Gentiles for 20 pieces of silver.. Joseph goes from the pit, to the prison, to the throne, second in charge only to Pharaoh... in a far away land.. He provides a revelation of dreams and speaks of a future time of abundance and then famine..

He is given a Gentile bride..

And sure enough.. when the famine hits.. who comes looking for him to find sustenance..? That's right, his own brethren.. the same brethren who sold him many years ago and who deceived Israel (Jacob) that he was dead by dipping his coat of many colours in blood..

They're led to repentance and in their deepest time of need, Joseph reveals himself to them.. and explains the whole situation.. how that they did it for evil and that God did it for good..

Oh yeah.. and in the end... Jacob (Israel) learns that the son of his old age is not only alive.. but ruler over all..

 

[reba]

How does one count days into a 1000 years AFTER the last day.

Jesus said the resurrection is the LAST DAY

Eventide said

No AGAIN, there's a thousand years between the first resurrection..

 

[Eventide]

Not sure what you're asking here.. and you didn't verify for me if you think that the last day is 24 hours or not.. is that what you think the last day is... 24 hours ?

 

[Eventide]

the things which are...

To day is the day of salvation... and that's already lasted a couple thousand years..

 

[reba]

Not sure what you're asking here.. and you didn't verify for me if you think that the last day is 24 hours or not.. is that what you think the last day is... 24 hours ?

Yup the Creator was speaking and He said last day. Speaking of the resurrection, He did not say last days as in an age of time. The word tells us there will be no more sun light we will have the SON light. Those passages in John, Martha uses the words last day. If i was Martha i would be thinking last day as in 24 hours, the end the last 24 hours so to speak. I doubt she was thinking millenniums. Jesus did not correct her.

 

[Eventide]

Yup the Creator was speaking and He said last day. Speaking of the resurrection, He did not say last days as in an age of time. The word tells us there will be no more sun light we will have the SON light. Those passages in John, Martha uses the words last day. If i was Martha i would be thinking last day as in 24 hours, the end the last 24 hours so to speak. I doubt she was thinking millenniums. Jesus did not correct her.

The we'll have to disagree..

 

[reba]

I figured :yes Nice talking with ya'

 

[Eventide]

I figured :yes Nice talking with ya'

See, now that wasn't to agressive, right ?

You too Reba, nice talking with ya.

 

[Eventide]

for in the DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...

Another way to see that a DAY with the LORD is as a thousand years is found right in Genesis.. because the LORD said plainly that eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would result in their dying that DAY..

Did the LORD lie.. of course not.. Did Adam die 24 hours later.. no, he lived for 900 and something years before he died.. but he DID die in that day.. because a day with the LORD is as a thousand years and a thousand years as ONE DAY.. none of the long lives mentioned in Genesis exceeded a thousand years.. many came close but none lived to be a thousand years..

Adam truly did die in the DAY that he and his wife ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... and it was 900 and something years later.

 

[reba]

Re: for in the DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...

Another way to see that a DAY with the LORD is as a thousand years is found right in Genesis.. because the LORD said plainly that eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil would result in their dying that DAY..

Did the LORD lie.. of course not.. Did Adam die 24 hours later.. no, he lived for 900 and something years before he died.. but he DID die in that day.. because a day with the LORD is as a thousand years and a thousand years as ONE DAY.. none of the long lives mentioned in Genesis exceeded a thousand years.. many came close but none lived to be a thousand years..

Adam truly did die in the DAY that he and his wife ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... and it was 900 and something years later.

Not to my thinking. Adam died His death was separation, of sorts, from God. as stated God did not lie..
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Surprise! we dont agree on death! ;)

 

[Eventide]

Re: for in the DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...

Surprise! we dont agree on death! ;)

Again, no surprises here.. although when the scriptures say..

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

I believe it.

 

[Eventide]

Matthew 25..

Then there's Matthew 25 which speaks of the Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory..

It's a shame that will only last 24 hours.. but hey, at least He will be king over all the earth in that short time.. ;-)

Come, enter into the kingdom prepared for thee.. but hurry up.. we only got 24 hours..

Gotta admit, that is pretty funny.

 

[Eventide]

things which shall be hereafter...

Another interesting portion concerning the Day of the LORD is in Zech...

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

 

[Eventide]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

IMO this is a perfect connection with Matt 24, Rev 12 & Dan 12

 

[jasoncran]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

IMO this is a perfect connection with Matt 24, Rev 12 & Dan 12

that is over and happened in ad 70. the problem with that is you have repeated that isreal is saved. show me where isreal is saved in matthew 24 or even better luke 21

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

so Jesus said that jerusalem was to fall and that was for what? vengeance. hmm what did that nation do do deserve that? hmm crucify him.

 

[Eventide]

Re: things which shall be hereafter...

that is over and happened in ad 70..

According to your stated beliefs, this is impossible... Because you have already made it clear that you believe that the resurrection has NOT happened yet, and therefore the LORD could not have come with all His saints.

You're contradicting yourself.