The things which are... and the things which shall be hereafter...

[Eventide]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

In one sense.

There were things that were foretold by prophets / angels / dreams / etc that came to pass. There are things that exist now that were foretold, that we experience now. There are many things that are to be (already foretold and some having signs that will show their appearing is eminent).

This is all a new thought with me. I honestly do not know that I can totally put this in words yet. Once I quoted the church tradition that Jesus used parables to teach with, and (finally I saw scripture reavels Jesus used parables to conceal).

Jesus had many prophecys and signs of his coming foretold. Now we have many things that are foretold and given the signs of the appearing things.

It seems to me that the restatement of creation in Genesis sure has a lot of things similar to statements / restatements in Revelation.

All symbols have a spiritual reality behind them. Jesus is sure the reality behind a lot of symbols. Jesus was the temple he was talking about, but he also was aware of the physical temple of the time.

eddif

Obviously there have been countless prophecies fulfilled in Christ's birth, life, death, and resurrection... although there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled when He returns.

I've listed some of the things which shall be hereafter... For example the Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory, with His Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...

The times of the Gentiles being fulfilled.. And Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles until they're fulfilled...

Israel being blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in..

Surely you can see these as yet to be fulfilled, and therefore being events which shall be... Here... After...

Or... Are you going to tell us that the Lord returned already in 70 AD like some others would say...?

 

[jasoncran]

define isreal. and how can paul say that he desire some of isreal to be saved if that context is a national state?

 

[eddif]

Look at these simple connections within the gospel of Matthew...

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Then simply look at Matthew 25 to see WHEN the Lord will sit upon the throne of His glory...

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory

The gospel of Luke shows us the same thing...

OK, so according to the gospel of Matthew...

When will the Apostles sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel ?

The answer is... in the regeneration, WHEN the Son of man shall sit upon the throne of His glory..

When shall the LORD sit upon the throne of His glory ?

The answer is... when He comes in His glory..

Simple enough, right.. now look at Luke 22..

And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

Now look at a few verses later in the same chapter..

Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

There it is, plain as day..

I suppose a lot of what we are saying is the same thing done from different angles.

I tend to think Jesus has knocked at the door of our life and come into us as individuals, the Church, and he will restore Israel. When he rules and reigns in our lives we are seated with him in heavenly places. Inside us are the foundational thoughts of the apostles. Humanly speaking we have a tree of life in our brain (I would have Israel worship me in heart and mind).

The Jews spread the gospel at first and fell somewhat away from their calling. The church is supposed to be spreading the gospel now but the Church has let heresies creep in.

The true Jews will be restored and the true Church will be without spot or blemish. God is going to take care of all his work. God is about restoration through Jesus.

eddif

 

[Eventide]

So what's the verdict ?

Has the Lord Jesus Christ returned yet ?

Yes, No, not sure ?

Has the resurrection happened yet ?

Yes, No, not sure ?

 

[Eventide]

I suppose a lot of what we are saying is the same thing done from different angles.

Who's we ?

And that depends of course on what you are actually saying..

 

[eddif]

Re: The UNVEILING of Jesus Christ...

eddif comments in blue
Eventide;640724]Obviously there have been countless prophecies fulfilled in Christ's birth, life, death, and resurrection... although there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled when He returns.

I've listed some of the things which shall be hereafter... For example the Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory, with His Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel...
I am saying that the prophecies are being fulfilled as He rules our lives.
The times of the Gentiles being fulfilled.. And Jerusalem being trodden down of the Gentiles until they're fulfilled...
The old physical Jerusalem with all its physical problems is replaced by an inward dwelling of Christ in us. There can be a restored physical Jerusalem, but the ultimate true reality is spiritual.
Israel being blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in..

Surely you can see these as yet to be fulfilled, and therefore being events which shall be... Here... After...
Yes here after the prophecies, signs, and spiritual reality manifests. The true spiritual reality is Jesus reigning in our hearts and minds. It is not about buildings made with human hands but about the rivers of living water flowing out of our belly.
Or... Are you going to tell us that the Lord returned already in 70 AD like some others would say...?
No I would come closer to saying He returned in one form on the day of pentacost. Things changed from that day on (not perfectly, but the eyes of the understanding of the Apostles changed). Even till this day though there are veils and heresies that blind. We are delivered and are being delivered.

eddif

 

[Eventide]

Perhaps the most staggering of all things which shall be hereafter is the marriage of the Lamb.

Revelation 19 speaks of the marriage and then the coming of Christ..

 

[eddif]

Perhaps the most staggering of all things which shall be hereafter is the marriage of the Lamb.

Revelation 19 speaks of the marriage and then the coming of Christ..

You have bound the sign of the marriage to the coming of Christ.

Maybe you have set up a way to express what I am saying about hereafter.

Here--We are forming the Bride
After--The marriage takes place

eddif

 

[Eventide]

A marriage made in heaven...

One of the most amazing chapters in the word of God has to be Genesis 24... Because there we read of Abraham sending his eldest servant to find a wife for his only begotten son Isaac.

Of course this is a wondrous picture of Christ and His wife to be..

So this story thematically shows us many of the things which are, and of the things which shall be hereafter..

Notice how the story ends, and where Isaac takes Rebekah after they meet..

 

[Eventide]

One of my favorite things which shall be hereafter is Revelation 11:15... when it shall come to pass...

 

[Eventide]

The things which are...

How about some of the things which are...

Listen to what the Apostles have to say;

Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles says... Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Peter (The Apostle to the Circumcision) says this...

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

There's no doubt in my mind that Satan is the god of this present evil world... and that we wrestle against the rulers of the darkness of this world...

But thanks be to God for the things which shall be hereafter... and now these remain... FAITH, HOPE and LOVE.. in the promises of God.

 

[Eventide]

Be not ignorant of this one thing...

The Apostle Peter (Apostle to the Circumcision) says;

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[cupid dave]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing...

The Apostle Peter (Apostle to the Circumcision) says;

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Why is it that Bible people can read this verse, and yet not see that the seven "days" of creation could/would compare well with the scientific fact that seven long Eras of time actually have passed since the Big Bang beginning of Gen1:1??

Also, if one double checks the Hebrew word used where the KJ bible says "day," they find that the Hebrew is yowm, and it coud mean any duration, depending on the context one understands for the passage:

 

[Eventide]

The DAY of the LORD cometh...

When the holy scriptures speak of the last day, it's not speaking of a 24 hour period but rather a period of 1000 years.. The DAY of the LORD, the DAY of Jesus Christ.

Can you see that DAY approaching ?

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

 

[cupid dave]

Re: The DAY of the LORD cometh...

When the holy scriptures speak of the last day, it's not speaking of a 24 hour period but rather a period of 1000 years.. The DAY of the LORD, the DAY of Jesus Christ.

Can you see that DAY approaching ?

And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

I read "that day" to mean the first day of the millennium that came when the whole world saw the fulfillment of that prophecy of Jesus coming upon the clouds.

It is also true that that "day" extended from 54AD throughout the Universal Christianity of the whole Roman World, ending in 1054AD with the Great Schism of Greek Orthodoxy, and the Renaissance which was the beast revived.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones(of Universal Christian authority) and they, (the 144,000 monks ofCatholic monasticism: [Rev14:4]), sat upon them, (Christianitymandated as the ONLY legal religion in the Empire, in 380AD), and(theocratic) judgment was given unto them (in the days of CatholicMonasticism): and I saw the souls, (the spirit-like psyches or thinking)of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the (one) wordof God, (Truth), and which had not worshipped (by participation inthe paganistic practices and sexual excesses fueling) the beast (of therevival of that Roman Culture including the economic system which had beenbased upon selfish self-interest), neither his image (on his coinage),neither had received his mark (of ledgered accounts recorded) upon theirforeheads, or in (wages in) their hands; and they, (the saints orapostles), lived (as angels in the minds of the Christians who havefollowed since the appearance of the Gospels in 54AD, i.e., those beheaded saints, in the memories of thecongregations who worshipped in churches built upon the bones of theirremain)...

.... and (they) reigned(in Monasticism) with Christ a thousand years, (from 54 AD upon theappearance of the Holy Comforter, until 1054 AD with the first Schism of GreekOrthodoxy).

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing...

Why is it that Bible people can read this verse, and yet not see that the seven "days" of creation could/would compare well with the scientific fact that seven long Eras of time actually have passed since the Big Bang beginning of Gen1:1??

Also, if one double checks the Hebrew word used where the KJ bible says "day," they find that the Hebrew is yowm, and it coud mean any duration, depending on the context one understands for the passage:

well then i guess the shabat was an epoch too but the jews then and today being fluent in hebrew laugh at that.

 

[Adam]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing...

Why is it that Bible people can read this verse, and yet not see that the seven "days" of creation could/would compare well with the scientific fact that seven long Eras of time actually have passed since the Big Bang beginning of Gen1:1??

Most likely it is because it isn't a scientific fact that 7 eras of time have passed since the big bang.

 

[eddif]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing...

The Apostle Peter (Apostle to the Circumcision) says;

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Time is a little out of my league. So please bear with my ignorance. I will say what I think and pose a question. Time was established on the fourth day. So, time will end when the stars fall from the celestial heaven (?). I guess I thought the Day of the Lord would be Eternity starting again (?).

In your opinion, what is right and what is wrong with my thoughts?

eddif

 

[Eventide]

Re: Be not ignorant of this one thing...

Time is a little out of my league. So please bear with my ignorance. I will say what I think and pose a question. Time was established on the fourth day. So, time will end when the stars fall from the celestial heaven (?). I guess I thought the Day of the Lord would be Eternity starting again (?).

In your opinion, what is right and what is wrong with my thoughts?

eddif

I'm not the standard for what is 'right or wrong'... Although I believe that the Day of the LORD is literally a thousand years, and that His kingdom will be on earth during that time.

 

[jasoncran]

the day of the lord is a thousand years and its not a judgment?

if there are christian in that then why are we to repent so that we arent in it?