The Trichotomy of Man (part I)

[jasoncran]

fear him that can destroy both body and soul.

i think ahuli is thinking of the idea the god is self-existent . the angels are immortal beings but not self-existent. God allows them and us to live forever as only he is self-existent.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz: "I know you've stated such many times, but you have never provided any Scripture that says the soul dies. "


Hi gd

Rev. 16:3 shows us that the soul dies.

Psalms 49:15 shows us that it is the soul that is redeemed from the power of the grave

Psalms 56:13 shows us that God delivers our soul from death

Job 33:28 & 30 - the word "pit" in this verse means corruption. The soul is corruptible. < Here the soul is expressed as the corruption of the soul, not the body.

Everything is still future, because of the promises of God. The last enemy - "death" has not been destroyed yet. When anyone dies, their soul dies and goes to the grave with the body. < Psalm 44:25

The soul that sins it shall die ... is basic scripture. Why people then insist it is not or is immortal when the bible also says that God only has immortality ... is something I will never understand.

The soul that sins will die....doesn't the word "sin" lead you to think "day of judgment"...when we will give an account before God? The soul that sins will die in the lake of fire on the day of judgment, unless it's been bought with a price. Fear him who can destroy the soul in hell.


What is the everlasting life that been promised to all believers? Everlasting...immortal...what's the difference? God has always existed...for sure. And He always will exist. We have not always existed, but when we're born of the Spirit we are given eternal life. Perhaps you don't understand because you haven't looked with your eyes wide open. ;)

Hi gd

Do you know what the words - wait -- patience --- promise --- and future means ? ?

Perhaps you dont understand because you havn't looked with your eyes wide open. :biglol

Perhaps it is because you do not know how to wait, nor understand what future means, or what patience means. You want everything now !

You do not want to believe that the soul dies when the body dies, because you must be fearing death.

Or, if that is not the case, then there is some other hidden reason why you can not wait on the Lord to gather up the church.

You want your old body back to be raised from the dead, and I just can not understand why a person wants their old body back. Especially when God has promised chrisitans a new body fashioned liken unto our Lord's body.

??///??????

 

[elijah23]

Can God make a stone too big for him to pick up ?

Please, my friend ... remember this ... thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ... and statements like that are out of order. What would He do with a stone too big? Please don't say things like that anymore. It is disrespectful of our holy God.

You have misquoted me. Mysteryman said, "Can God make a stone too big for him to pick up ?" if I am not mistaken. I did not make that remark.

 

[elijah23]

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless

Is it disrespectful to tell the truth? The Lord CAN do anything.

 

[Mysteryman]

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless

Is it disrespectful to tell the truth? The Lord CAN do anything.

You should be saying that God can do anything according to his righteousness. Thanks for considering this. :yes

 

[glorydaz]

Hi gd

Do you know what the words - wait -- patience --- promise --- and future means ? ?

Perhaps you dont understand because you havn't looked with your eyes wide open. :biglol

Perhaps it is because you do not know how to wait, nor understand what future means, or what patience means. You want everything now !

You do not want to believe that the soul dies when the body dies, because you must be fearing death.

Or, if that is not the case, then there is some other hidden reason why you can not wait on the Lord to gather up the church.

You want your old body back to be raised from the dead, and I just can not understand why a person wants their old body back. Especially when God has promised chrisitans a new body fashioned liken unto our Lord's body.

??///??????

I understand perfectly what they mean. I don't fear death because I've already entered into eternal life. My body is but a tent, when it goes to the ground, I will be with the Lord awaiting His return. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When He returns, he will raise our corruptible bodies and change them into new spiritual bodies. Those who are alive at the Lord's coming will have their bodies changed in the twinkling of an eye. That's why it's important to know the difference between the body, soul, and spirit. The soul does not remain with the body in the grave. It waits...either in hades or in paradise until the Lord comes again.

 

[Ahuli]

Hi gd

Do you know what the words - wait -- patience --- promise --- and future means ? ?

Perhaps you dont understand because you havn't looked with your eyes wide open. :biglol

Perhaps it is because you do not know how to wait, nor understand what future means, or what patience means. You want everything now !

You do not want to believe that the soul dies when the body dies, because you must be fearing death.

Or, if that is not the case, then there is some other hidden reason why you can not wait on the Lord to gather up the church.

You want your old body back to be raised from the dead, and I just can not understand why a person wants their old body back. Especially when God has promised chrisitans a new body fashioned liken unto our Lord's body.

??///??????

I will be with the Lord awaiting His return.

Could you explain how this works? Why would you be waiting for His return when you are already with Him? Why a resurrection if you are already "there"? Why raise the dead from their graves to give them immortality when they, according to you, already have it and are with Jesus? Do you see how nonsensical that is?

 

[Ahuli]

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless

Is it disrespectful to tell the truth? The Lord CAN do anything.

No, He cannot. Which one of His commandments can He break?

 

[elijah23]

The Lord’s intelligence far exceeds our intelligence. He can do anything, even if we don’t understand why or how. One thing we know for sure: what he does he does because he loves us.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi gd

Do you know what the words - wait -- patience --- promise --- and future means ? ?

Perhaps you dont understand because you havn't looked with your eyes wide open. :biglol

Perhaps it is because you do not know how to wait, nor understand what future means, or what patience means. You want everything now !

You do not want to believe that the soul dies when the body dies, because you must be fearing death.

Or, if that is not the case, then there is some other hidden reason why you can not wait on the Lord to gather up the church.

You want your old body back to be raised from the dead, and I just can not understand why a person wants their old body back. Especially when God has promised chrisitans a new body fashioned liken unto our Lord's body.

??///??????

I understand perfectly what they mean. I don't fear death because I've already entered into eternal life. My body is but a tent, when it goes to the ground, I will be with the Lord awaiting His return. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When He returns, he will raise our corruptible bodies and change them into new spiritual bodies. Those who are alive at the Lord's coming will have their bodies changed in the twinkling of an eye. That's why it's important to know the difference between the body, soul, and spirit. The soul does not remain with the body in the grave. It waits...either in hades or in paradise until the Lord comes again.

Hi

"hades" is the grave

I noticed that you said -- "hades or in paradise" < Can't make up your mind which one it is ?

The soul does go down with the body. What part of the word "down" don't you understand ?

The soul waits for the Lord to call you out from the grave.

The soul of Lazarus went to the grave with the body of Lazarus. In fact, he was dead for more than four days. When Jesus called out Lazarus from the grave. This is an example of Jesus calling us out from the grave. Unlike Lazarus, our body returns to dust. Lazarus body had start to decay. But had not returned to dust yet. The soul of Lazarus was revived.

God is no respector of persons. Once the last enemy has been destroyed, which is death. Then no persons soul will ever die again. But until then, the soul dies .

I have not only shown you that the soul does die, using scripture. I have also shown you that the soul goes down with the body when you die. The soul does not seperate from the body in some out of body experience.

Christians get a new body, a body fashioned liken unto the body of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no logical reason to have our old bodies raised , then changed into spiritual bodies . It just does not line up with scripture and is not profitable , nor logical to raise our old body which has died and returned to dust. The body of every living person, will return to dust , from the earth from which it was taken. Our dead bodies will not go into heaven with Christ. So there is no logical reason to believe that our old dead bodies, that have returned unto dust, will be raised , to be reunited with its soul. This again is not biblical, nor logical.

God said, that in the new heaven and new earth, that he makes all things new, not renewed.

Bless

 

[glorydaz]

Hi

"hades" is the grave

I noticed that you said -- "hades or in paradise" < Can't make up your mind which one it is ?

The soul does go down with the body. What part of the word "down" don't you understand ?

The soul waits for the Lord to call you out from the grave.

The soul of Lazarus went to the grave with the body of Lazarus. In fact, he was dead for more than four days. When Jesus called out Lazarus from the grave. This is an example of Jesus calling us out from the grave. Unlike Lazarus, our body returns to dust. Lazarus body had start to decay. But had not returned to dust yet. The soul of Lazarus was revived.

God is no respector of persons. Once the last enemy has been destroyed, which is death. Then no persons soul will ever die again. But until then, the soul dies .

I have not only shown you that the soul does die, using scripture. I have also shown you that the soul goes down with the body when you die. The soul does not seperate from the body in some out of body experience.

Christians get a new body, a body fashioned liken unto the body of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no logical reason to have our old bodies raised , then changed into spiritual bodies . It just does not line up with scripture and is not profitable , nor logical to raise our old body which has died and returned to dust. The body of every living person, will return to dust , from the earth from which it was taken. Our dead bodies will not go into heaven with Christ. So there is no logical reason to believe that our old dead bodies, that have returned unto dust, will be raised , to be reunited with its soul. This again is not biblical, nor logical.

God said, that in the new heaven and new earth, that he makes all things new, not renewed.

Yes, I know what you think. This is the way I see it.

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means the “place of the dead†or the “place of departed souls/spirits.†The New Testament Greek word that is used for hell is “hades,†which also refers to “the place of the dead.†Other Scriptures in the New Testament indicate that sheol/hades is a temporary place, where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection and judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 gives a clear distinction between the two. Hell (the lake of fire) is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. Hades is a temporary place. So, no, Jesus did not go to hell because hell is a future realm, only put into effect after the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

Sheol/hades is a realm with two divisions (Matthew 11:23, 16:18; Luke 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27-31), the abodes of the saved and the lost. The abode of the saved was called “paradise†and “Abraham's bosom.†The abodes of the saved and the lost are separated by a “great chasm†(Luke 16:26). When Jesus ascended to heaven, He took the occupants of paradise (believers) with Him (Ephesians 4:8-10). The lost side of sheol/hades has remained unchanged. All unbelieving dead go there awaiting their final judgment in the future. Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes, according to Ephesians 4:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:18-20.

Some of the confusion has arisen from such passages as Psalm 16:10-11 as translated in the King James Version, “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption....Thou wilt show me the path of life.†“Hell†is not a correct translation of this verse. A correct reading would be “the grave†or “sheol.†Jesus said to the thief beside Him, “Today you will be with me in paradise†(Luke 23:43). Jesus’ body was in the tomb; His soul/spirit went to the “paradise†side of sheol/hades. He then removed all the righteous dead from paradise and took them with Him to heaven. Unfortunately, in many translations of the Bible, translators are not consistent, or correct, in how they translate the Hebrew and Greek words for “sheol,†“hades,†and “hell.â€


http://www.gotquestions.org/did-jesus-go-to-hell.html

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi

"hades" is the grave

I noticed that you said -- "hades or in paradise" < Can't make up your mind which one it is ?

The soul does go down with the body. What part of the word "down" don't you understand ?

The soul waits for the Lord to call you out from the grave.

The soul of Lazarus went to the grave with the body of Lazarus. In fact, he was dead for more than four days. When Jesus called out Lazarus from the grave. This is an example of Jesus calling us out from the grave. Unlike Lazarus, our body returns to dust. Lazarus body had start to decay. But had not returned to dust yet. The soul of Lazarus was revived.

God is no respector of persons. Once the last enemy has been destroyed, which is death. Then no persons soul will ever die again. But until then, the soul dies .

I have not only shown you that the soul does die, using scripture. I have also shown you that the soul goes down with the body when you die. The soul does not seperate from the body in some out of body experience.

Christians get a new body, a body fashioned liken unto the body of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no logical reason to have our old bodies raised , then changed into spiritual bodies . It just does not line up with scripture and is not profitable , nor logical to raise our old body which has died and returned to dust. The body of every living person, will return to dust , from the earth from which it was taken. Our dead bodies will not go into heaven with Christ. So there is no logical reason to believe that our old dead bodies, that have returned unto dust, will be raised , to be reunited with its soul. This again is not biblical, nor logical.

God said, that in the new heaven and new earth, that he makes all things new, not renewed.

Yes, I know what you think. This is the way I see it.

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means the “place of the dead†or the “place of departed souls/spirits.†The New Testament Greek word that is used for hell is “hades,†which also refers to “the place of the dead.†Other Scriptures in the New Testament indicate that sheol/hades is a temporary place, where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection and judgment. Revelation 20:11-15 gives a clear distinction between the two. Hell (the lake of fire) is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. Hades is a temporary place. So, no, Jesus did not go to hell because hell is a future realm, only put into effect after the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

Sheol/hades is a realm with two divisions (Matthew 11:23, 16:18; Luke 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27-31), the abodes of the saved and the lost. The abode of the saved was called “paradise†and “Abraham's bosom.†The abodes of the saved and the lost are separated by a “great chasm†(Luke 16:26). When Jesus ascended to heaven, He took the occupants of paradise (believers) with Him (Ephesians 4:8-10). The lost side of sheol/hades has remained unchanged. All unbelieving dead go there awaiting their final judgment in the future. Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes, according to Ephesians 4:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:18-20.

Some of the confusion has arisen from such passages as Psalm 16:10-11 as translated in the King James Version, “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption....Thou wilt show me the path of life.†“Hell†is not a correct translation of this verse. A correct reading would be “the grave†or “sheol.†Jesus said to the thief beside Him, “Today you will be with me in paradise†(Luke 23:43). Jesus’ body was in the tomb; His soul/spirit went to the “paradise†side of sheol/hades. He then removed all the righteous dead from paradise and took them with Him to heaven. Unfortunately, in many translations of the Bible, translators are not consistent, or correct, in how they translate the Hebrew and Greek words for “sheol,†“hades,†and “hell.â€


http://www.gotquestions.org/did-jesus-go-to-hell.html

Hi

This is the very reason I asked you if you knew what future means. You can't put future tense within the present tense. Paradise is future. The parable is talking about the future, not the present.

Jesus talking to the theif on the cross is again future paradise. The word "To - Day" is a two part word for a reason. It means - "in that day" or "in this day". The thief said, to remember me when you come into your kingdom. The kingdom is not the grave. Paradise is not the grave. Both are future.

Of course you can continue to believe as you wish.

 

[Ahuli]

Hi gd

Do you know what the words - wait -- patience --- promise --- and future means ? ?

Perhaps you dont understand because you havn't looked with your eyes wide open. :biglol

Perhaps it is because you do not know how to wait, nor understand what future means, or what patience means. You want everything now !

You do not want to believe that the soul dies when the body dies, because you must be fearing death.

Or, if that is not the case, then there is some other hidden reason why you can not wait on the Lord to gather up the church.

You want your old body back to be raised from the dead, and I just can not understand why a person wants their old body back. Especially when God has promised chrisitans a new body fashioned liken unto our Lord's body.

??///??????

I will be with the Lord awaiting His return.

Could you explain how this works? Why would you be waiting for His return when you are already with Him? Why a resurrection if you are already "there"? Why raise the dead from their graves to give them immortality when they, according to you, already have it and are with Jesus? Do you see how nonsensical that is?

Could you explain yourself, please?

 

[glorydaz]

Hi

This is the very reason I asked you if you knew what future means. You can't put future tense within the present tense. Paradise is future. The parable is talking about the future, not the present.

Jesus talking to the theif on the cross is again future paradise. The word "To - Day" is a two part word for a reason. It means - "in that day" or "in this day". The thief said, to remember me when you come into your kingdom. The kingdom is not the grave. Paradise is not the grave. Both are future.

Of course you can continue to believe as you wish.

Let's look at that, shall we? "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday to day and forever."
In every single instance, when the word "to day" is used in the NT, it is speaking of "this day". It's only the verse where Jesus is speaking to the thief on the cross that people won't accept it. There can be no other reason for that except a refusal to believe..."to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord."

To day actually means "this day". It's the Greek word "semeron".
1. this (very) day)
2. what has happened today

Jesus makes it very clear here......there are more, but I'll just give you a few to chew on.

Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

We have seen strange things to day.

And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

The grass which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven....

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

It will be foul weather to day...for the sky is red and lowering.

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Go to work to day....

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi

This is the very reason I asked you if you knew what future means. You can't put future tense within the present tense. Paradise is future. The parable is talking about the future, not the present.

Jesus talking to the theif on the cross is again future paradise. The word "To - Day" is a two part word for a reason. It means - "in that day" or "in this day". The thief said, to remember me when you come into your kingdom. The kingdom is not the grave. Paradise is not the grave. Both are future.

Of course you can continue to believe as you wish.

Let's look at that, shall we? "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday to day and forever."
In every single instance, when the word "to day" is used in the NT, it is speaking of "this day". It's only the verse where Jesus is speaking to the thief on the cross that people won't accept it. There can be no other reason for that except a refusal to believe..."to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord."

To day actually means "this day". It's the Greek word "semeron".
1. this (very) day)
2. what has happened today

Jesus makes it very clear here......there are more, but I'll just give you a few to chew on.

Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

We have seen strange things to day.
[quote="Luke 5:26":31tpezt9] And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

The grass which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven....

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

It will be foul weather to day...for the sky is red and lowering.

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Go to work to day....

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

[/quote:31tpezt9]



Question for you gd ---- So you believe that the kingdom of Jesus is in the grave ? Remembering that the theif said - "when you come into your kingdom" -- Also keep in mind that Jesus would not lie to the theif.

 

[glorydaz]

Let's look at that, shall we? "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday to day and forever."
In every single instance, when the word "to day" is used in the NT, it is speaking of "this day". It's only the verse where Jesus is speaking to the thief on the cross that people won't accept it. There can be no other reason for that except a refusal to believe..."to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord."

To day actually means "this day". It's the Greek word "semeron".
1. this (very) day)
2. what has happened today

Jesus makes it very clear here......there are more, but I'll just give you a few to chew on.

Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

We have seen strange things to day.
[quote="Luke 5:26":2urj5w2d] And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

The grass which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven....
[quote="Matthew 6:30":2urj5w2d] Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

It will be foul weather to day...for the sky is red and lowering.

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Go to work to day....

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

[/quote:2urj5w2d]



Question for you gd ---- So you believe that the kingdom of Jesus is in the grave ? Remembering that the theif said - "when you come into your kingdom" -- Also keep in mind that Jesus would not lie to the theif.[/quote:2urj5w2d]

Of course the kingdom is not in the grave. Only Jesus' body went to the grave.

Jesus' kingdom is with Him. The thief didn't know He had come into His kingdom already. Jesus' response was, "To day you shall be with me in Paradise". Those who die in the Lord go to be with the Lord upon their death. Jesus was assuring the thief he would be with Him that day.

The kingdom is where the King is...

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

 

[Mysteryman]

Let's look at that, shall we? "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday to day and forever."
In every single instance, when the word "to day" is used in the NT, it is speaking of "this day". It's only the verse where Jesus is speaking to the thief on the cross that people won't accept it. There can be no other reason for that except a refusal to believe..."to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord."

To day actually means "this day". It's the Greek word "semeron".
1. this (very) day)
2. what has happened today

Jesus makes it very clear here......there are more, but I'll just give you a few to chew on.

Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

We have seen strange things to day.
[quote="Luke 5:26":1wc7c4rm] And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.

The grass which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven....
[quote="Matthew 6:30":1wc7c4rm] Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

It will be foul weather to day...for the sky is red and lowering.

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Go to work to day....

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

[/quote:1wc7c4rm]



Question for you gd ---- So you believe that the kingdom of Jesus is in the grave ? Remembering that the theif said - "when you come into your kingdom" -- Also keep in mind that Jesus would not lie to the theif.[/quote:1wc7c4rm]

Of course the kingdom is not in the grave. Only Jesus' body went to the grave.

Jesus' kingdom is with Him. The thief didn't know He had come into His kingdom already. Jesus' response was, "To day you shall be with me in Paradise". Those who die in the Lord go to be with the Lord upon their death. Jesus was assuring the thief he would be with Him that day.

The kingdom is where the King is...

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

[/quote]


Hi gd

No, more than his body went to the grave. The prophecy was, that he will not leave his (JC) soul in the grave. The soul of Jesus Christ was in the grave with his body.

And that would mean, that according to your assumption, the grave is where paradise is.

You see, you say one thing, and the scriptures say a whole different thing. Thus saith glorydaz, instead of thus saith the Lord.

Let me ask you another question - Do you believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins ?

 

[glorydaz]

Of course the kingdom is not in the grave. Only Jesus' body went to the grave.

Jesus' kingdom is with Him. The thief didn't know He had come into His kingdom already. Jesus' response was, "To day you shall be with me in Paradise". Those who die in the Lord go to be with the Lord upon their death. Jesus was assuring the thief he would be with Him that day.

The kingdom is where the King is...

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

[quote="Matthew 21:5":2m6oppig]Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

[quote="John 12:15":2m6oppig]Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

[/quote:2m6oppig]


Hi gd

No, more than his body went to the grave. The prophecy was, that he will not leave his (JC) soul in the grave. The soul of Jesus Christ was in the grave with his body.

And that would mean, that according to your assumption, the grave is where paradise is.

You see, you say one thing, and the scriptures say a whole different thing. Thus saith glorydaz, instead of thus saith the Lord.

Let me ask you another question - Do you believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins ?[/quote:2m6oppig]

It would be so nice if you could refrain from such silly comments every time you post.
Does it make you feel good?

Your misunderstanding of "grave", "hades", and "sheol" is your undoing here.

Death could not hold him....It was His "body" that was raised on the third day.
His soul was not in the grave, it had descended into the "lower parts of the earth".

His soul was redeemed from the power of the grave.

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit....he went to hades/sheol...depending on the Hebrew or Greek, and preached to the "prisoners" there. Those who were waiting for the day they would be taken with Him to "Paradise" as Jesus called it.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

This "lower parts of the earth" is not the grave. Jesus' body was in an above ground tomb. You call this the grave, but the Bible doesn't.

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Jesus died in the flesh, MM. That's all. His body died...nothing else.

 

[Mysteryman]

Of course the kingdom is not in the grave. Only Jesus' body went to the grave.

Jesus' kingdom is with Him. The thief didn't know He had come into His kingdom already. Jesus' response was, "To day you shall be with me in Paradise". Those who die in the Lord go to be with the Lord upon their death. Jesus was assuring the thief he would be with Him that day.

The kingdom is where the King is...

But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

[quote="Matthew 21:5":15p1en83]Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

[quote="John 12:15":15p1en83]Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

[/quote:15p1en83]


Hi gd

No, more than his body went to the grave. The prophecy was, that he will not leave his (JC) soul in the grave. The soul of Jesus Christ was in the grave with his body.

And that would mean, that according to your assumption, the grave is where paradise is.

You see, you say one thing, and the scriptures say a whole different thing. Thus saith glorydaz, instead of thus saith the Lord.

Let me ask you another question - Do you believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins ?[/quote:15p1en83]

It would be so nice if you could refrain from such silly comments every time you post.
Does it make you feel good?

Your misunderstanding of "grave", "hades", and "sheol" is your undoing here.

Death could not hold him....It was His "body" that was raised on the third day.
His soul was not in the grave, it had descended into the "lower parts of the earth".

His soul was redeemed from the power of the grave.

But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit....he went to hades/sheol...depending on the Hebrew or Greek, and preached to the "prisoners" there. Those who were waiting for the day they would be taken with Him to "Paradise" as Jesus called it.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

This "lower parts of the earth" is not the grave. Jesus' body was in an above ground tomb. You call this the grave, but the Bible doesn't.

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Jesus died in the flesh, MM. That's all. His body died...nothing else.[/quote]



Hi gd

I ask you these questions to make you think things through. But, because you are stuck on your personnal belief . My efforts are falling by the way side.

A dead person can not preach ! If his soul did not die, then mankinds soul is not redeemded from the dead , nor the grave. Jesus Christ had to die both body and soul, in order for mankind to be redeemed. Please read Acts 2:31 --- The word "hell" is a poor translation. It means the grave. This verse tells you that Jesus Christ soul went to the grave. At his death, he gave up the spirit (spirit of man) "ghost" in the kjv translation. It is the "spirit of man" - "ekpsucho" - to breath out - last breath.

Jesus himself said, that the son of man shall be in the heart of the earth, like Jonah was in the heart of the whale for three days and three night. Did Jonah preach to anyone while he was in the belly of the whale ? Jesus was put into a tomb/sepulchre . A sepulchre is a grave ! It is in the hebrew - "geburah" or "geber". In the greek , it is "mnemeion", which means monument. But , the other greek word is "taphos" which means - "burying place" - Matthew 27:61

Your suggestion that Jesus was not put into the heart of the earth is contrary to the very words of Jesus himself ! < Matt. 12:40

And Peter reminded everyone that the grave of David < - Acts 2:29 -- is still with us, and David is still dead !

 

[glorydaz]

Hi gd

I ask you these questions to make you think things through. But, because you are stuck on your personnal belief . My efforts are falling by the way side.

A dead person can not preach ! If his soul did not die, then mankinds soul is not redeemded from the dead , nor the grave. Jesus Christ had to die both body and soul, in order for mankind to be redeemed. Please read Acts 2:31 --- The word "hell" is a poor translation. It means the grave. This verse tells you that Jesus Christ soul went to the grave. At his death, he gave up the spirit (spirit of man) "ghost" in the kjv translation. It is the "spirit of man" - "ekpsucho" - to breath out - last breath.

Jesus himself said, that the son of man shall be in the heart of the earth, like Jonah was in the heart of the whale for three days and three night. Did Jonah preach to anyone while he was in the belly of the whale ? Jesus was put into a tomb/sepulchre . A sepulchre is a grave ! It is in the hebrew - "geburah" or "geber". In the greek , it is "mnemeion", which means monument. But , the other greek word is "taphos" which means - "burying place" - Matthew 27:61

Your suggestion that Jesus was not put into the heart of the earth is contrary to the very words of Jesus himself ! < Matt. 12:40

And Peter reminded everyone that the grave of David < - Acts 2:29 -- is still with us, and David is still dead !

LOL That's funny because I'm just trying to get you to think things through. But you are "stuck".

Jesus did not have to die both body and soul for mankind to be redeemed. That's just silly.
The soul that sins will die. Jesus did not sin...his soul did not die.
He bore our sins in his body...just as a lamb would.

He bore our sins in his own body...He was the sacrificial Lamb of God.

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jonah wasn't dead at all, so you certainly can't claim Jesus' soul had to die by using Jonah as an example. Jesus was talking about his body being in the grave. Jesus most certain could and did descend into the place of the dead to preach to the prisoners there. His body was in the grave, His spirit was with the Father...that only leaves His soul. The grave of David is still with us...it holds his body, but not his soul.