The Trichotomy of Man (part I)

[glorydaz]

Te Lord is the Lord. He can be the Father up in heaven, while at the same time walk the earth in the body of Jesus. What can’t the Lord do? He can do anything.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deut 6:4 RSV.

Hi

Can God lie ? How do you explain I Kings 8:27

But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

That wasn't a lie....He became flesh and dwelt among us. It was as easy as that. LOL

 

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz:"No, I don't believe the soul must die before it can be redeemed, and there isn't any scripture to support the death of Jesus' soul...at any time. There is scripture to support He went and preached to the souls in Hades. Those were the OT believers who were being held there until Christ's resurrection. They "looked forward" to that day. "


Hi

Thus saith glorydaz !

The very thing I asked you not to do, geesh ! :mad

I've given you scripture for this so many times...one would think you could remember it without getting into a snit. Chill out....this is the day that the Lord has made, let us be glad and rejoice in it.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz:"No, I don't believe the soul must die before it can be redeemed, and there isn't any scripture to support the death of Jesus' soul...at any time. There is scripture to support He went and preached to the souls in Hades. Those were the OT believers who were being held there until Christ's resurrection. They "looked forward" to that day. "


Hi

Thus saith glorydaz !

The very thing I asked you not to do, geesh ! :mad

I've given you scripture for this so many times...one would think you could remember it without getting into a snit. Chill out....this is the day that the Lord has made, let us be glad and rejoice in it.

Hi

The last enemy has not been destroyed as of yet. And that last enemy is death. When death and the grave are cast into the second death, then death will have been destroyed. And not until then !

When Christ comes back to gather up the church. The dead in Christ shall rise first. And not until then !

To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord, is not talking about you and your body !! Its talking about the body of Christ.

And I know that I have shown you numerous times that the soul goes to the grave with the dead body. Such was the case when Christ died. And such is the case when all Christians die. The soul goes to the grave with the dead body, because the soul dies as well.

There is no such thing as an out of body experience ! Your soul does not go anywhere until the dead in Christ rise from the dead. Then your soul will be alive once again, and stand before the judgement seat of Chrsit. And not until then !

When one dies, there is no remembrance. That is because the soul dies, along with the body. It is the soul that needs to be redeemed from the grave. This is a promise of God. But not until Christ comes to gather up the church.

If your soul goes to heaven after you die, then there would be no reason for a resurrection. Christians do not receive incorruptible bodies. They receive immortal bodies -- Mortal shall put on immortality.

The Spirit of his Son (Christ in you) remains with you when you die. And because spirit can not die, it sleeps. There is no such thing as soul sleep ! But there is such a thing as spirit sleep. The spirit of man goes back to God, the giver. The comforter, which the Father gives you, remains with you. The comforter is the Christ in you, the Spirit of his Son in your hearts.

Bless

 

[Ahuli]

Can God make a stone too big for him to pick up ?

Please, my friend ... remember this ... thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ... and statements like that are out of order. What would He do with a stone too big? Please don't say things like that anymore. It is disrespectful of our holy God.

 

[Ahuli]

What I see is you claiming you have spiritual understanding and those who don't agree with you are relying on their human understanding.

Is that not what you do? Or are you no longer a work in progress? Can you not state your point without making the other person feel like he has wasted his time learning? Do you not resort to clobbering someone to death with words, YOUR words, YOUR understanding, YOUR wisdom? Does the Holy Spirit not take us the steps we need to learn and know what is true?

I'm most definately a "work in progress". I'm sorry you think my words are "clobbering someone to death". That certainly isn't my intent. I'll try and be more sensitive in how I state my case.

Thank you, brother.

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz

I am going to be honest with you here, as well, I am going to ask you two questions.

Everything I just read , is nothing other than private interpretation. Another way of looking at your comments is this > "Thus saith glorydaz" !

Now my questions --- Do you not believe that God is going to resurrect the dead christians ? Do you not believe that God is going to resurrect all the souls of non-christians ? Read Rev. 20:12 & 13 and Acts 2:27 and I Thess. 4:16

Oh, I see...whatever I post is "private interpretation" and what you post is gospel. I'm sure glad you made that clear. :nod

Resurrection speaks of the body, MM...not the soul. The body is the outer shell of man...it goes into the ground.

The inner man "waits" until the resurrection of his body, when we will be given new glorified bodies.
You think the soul stays with the body and needs to be resurrected. The soul will be reunited with it's body (new and incorruptible) when our Lord returns.

I'm giving this quote to you from Young's where hell is correctly translated to Hades. That was the waiting place of the dead where Jesus went after His death. Hades could not hold him nor could the grave hold his flesh (He was "resurrected").

having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Those verses you gave don't say where the soul is when our bodies are raised.
You have to look elsewhere in Scripture for that...including Luke 16, which you contend is simply a parable. I say, Jesus would never mislead people by making up a story about the afterlife.

What we see here is the dead (body) being raised, and those who remain being "changed" from corruptible to incorruption after those dead (bodies) have been raised.

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall
be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz: " The soul will be reunited with it's body (new and incorruptible) when our Lord returns."


glorydaz

Show the scripture which specifically points towards your comment here ! Where does the Word tell us, that the soul will be reunited with its body.

 

[Mysteryman]

Can God make a stone too big for him to pick up ?

Please, my friend ... remember this ... thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ... and statements like that are out of order. What would He do with a stone too big? Please don't say things like that anymore. It is disrespectful of our holy God.

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless

 

[glorydaz]

To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord, is not talking about you and your body !! Its talking about the body of Christ.

There is no way that verse makes a lick of sense if talking about the body of Christ...either His body or the church. None.

What does make sense is to read it exactly as it's written, and this portion of scripture makes it very clear that when we die we go directly to be with the Lord. To die is gain...to depart and be with Christ....which is far better.

According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

And I know that I have shown you numerous times that the soul goes to the grave with the dead body. Such was the case when Christ died. And such is the case when all Christians die. The soul goes to the grave with the dead body, because the soul dies as well.

I know you've stated such many times, but you have never provided any Scripture that says the soul dies.

]When one dies, there is no remembrance. That is because the soul dies, along with the body. It is the soul that needs to be redeemed from the grave. This is a promise of God. But not until Christ comes to gather up the church.

No, we wait for the redemption of our body.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

It's the soul that needs forgiveness, and it's the soul that is redeemed when we're born of God.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

If your soul goes to heaven after you die, then there would be no reason for a resurrection. Christians do not receive incorruptible bodies. They receive immortal bodies -- Mortal shall put on immortality.

Indeed there is a need...for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...that's why we need to be raised and given our spiritual body.

 

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz: " The soul will be reunited with it's body (new and incorruptible) when our Lord returns."


glorydaz

Show the scripture which specifically points towards your comment here ! Where does the Word tell us, that the soul will be reunited with its body.

We're at home in this earthly house (body), and absent from the Lord...when we're given our immortal body, we will be present with Him ...face to face.

1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[Ahuli]

Can God make a stone too big for him to pick up ?

Please, my friend ... remember this ... thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ... and statements like that are out of order. What would He do with a stone too big? Please don't say things like that anymore. It is disrespectful of our holy God.

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless[/quote]
I agree. Bless right back.

 

[glorydaz]

Please, my friend ... remember this ... thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ... and statements like that are out of order. What would He do with a stone too big? Please don't say things like that anymore. It is disrespectful of our holy God.

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless

Take my word for it...it isn't helping...it's nit-picking.

God can do anything He wants to do...He's God.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote glorydaz: "I know you've stated such many times, but you have never provided any Scripture that says the soul dies. "


Hi gd

Rev. 16:3 shows us that the soul dies.

Psalms 49:15 shows us that it is the soul that is redeemed from the power of the grave

Psalms 56:13 shows us that God delivers our soul from death

Job 33:28 & 30 - the word "pit" in this verse means corruption. The soul is corruptible. < Here the soul is expressed as the corruption of the soul, not the body.

Everything is still future, because of the promises of God. The last enemy - "death" has not been destroyed yet. When anyone dies, their soul dies and goes to the grave with the body. < Psalm 44:25

 

[Mysteryman]

Our bodies return to dust from whence they were taken. Our bodies are not resurrected from the dead.

God breathed into the nostriles of man, and man became a living soul.

It is the soul that is redeemed from the grave, not the body !!

 

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz: "I know you've stated such many times, but you have never provided any Scripture that says the soul dies. "


Hi gd

Rev. 16:3 shows us that the soul dies.

Psalms 49:15 shows us that it is the soul that is redeemed from the power of the grave

Psalms 56:13 shows us that God delivers our soul from death

Job 33:28 & 30 - the word "pit" in this verse means corruption. The soul is corruptible. < Here the soul is expressed as the corruption of the soul, not the body.

Everything is still future, because of the promises of God. The last enemy - "death" has not been destroyed yet. When anyone dies, their soul dies and goes to the grave with the body. < Psalm 44:25

Hi Mysteryman,

The Bible uses soul in two different ways...which is why, as I've said before, man is a soul and has a soul...depending on how the word is used. The last enemy is the death of the body...not the death of the soul. Our soul has been delivered from the bondage of sin and death. We are alive through the Law of the Spirit of Life.

Notice bondage and liberty...we're delivered from the bondage of sin (the wages of which are death).

Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

When talking about people....he is a soul.
Such as...there were 20 people in the boat.

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.

When talking about a person's "self"...he has a soul.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Notice how we can lose our "life", for His sake (martyrdom), but find our "life"?
Just as Stephen did when he was killed. He was dying and looked up to see the Lord.
His soul was delivered up that very day.

We're not to fear them who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul....
Man may kill our body, but not our soul.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

We always have to carefully weigh the words of Job's friends, for the Lord says they are without knowledge.

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

In this case, the friend is speaking of Job's physical death. But I like the way a "ransom" for his soul was brought into the mix. God is so good, He can even use the unwise to get His message across. Though this earthen body sees corruption, the soul waits for the body's redemption in the last day.

He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes with man, To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living. Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak.

These all speak of the body (flesh) facing corruption.

I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jesus' soul was not left in the place of waiting (hades), NOR was His body (flesh) to suffer corruption.

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. ....He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

This is speaking of David's flesh.

For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

This is speaking of Christ's flesh.

But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Psalm 44, as has been pointed out, is not talking about the soul going to the grave, but of being overrun by one's enemies. The soul's destination is not the subject of this verse.

For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.

Paul refers to this Psalm here...

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

 

[glorydaz]

Our bodies return to dust from whence they were taken. Our bodies are not resurrected from the dead.

God breathed into the nostriles of man, and man became a living soul.

It is the soul that is redeemed from the grave, not the body !!

What? Of course our bodies are resurrected from the dead.

Was our Lord's body not resurrected from the grave?
He walked around in His resurrected body for 40 days after His death.
He was the firstfruits...

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Mysteryman]

Our bodies return to dust from whence they were taken. Our bodies are not resurrected from the dead.

God breathed into the nostriles of man, and man became a living soul.

It is the soul that is redeemed from the grave, not the body !!

What? Of course our bodies are resurrected from the dead.

Was our Lord's body not resurrected from the grave?
He walked around in His resurrected body for 40 days after His death.
He was the firstfruits...

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Hi

Yes, you are correct, in that Jesus was raised from the dead in his resurrected body. But one must remember, that Jesus represented both future resurrections. Not just a christian resurrection, but also the resurrection of all non-christians.

Romans 8:23 is talking about a christians new body, not our old body, that has returned to dust. I Corinth. 15:44 makes this much clearer -- "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body"

Verse 48 makes it clear as well - "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy : and as is the heavenly, such are they aslo that are heavenly"

Jesus Christ which came down from heaven, was the heavenly, which is the spiritual. He was raised both body and Spirit. But he ascended into heaven with his spiritual body , not his physical body. You might ask, but where did his physical body end up then ? The answer is, in the same place that the body of Elijah ended up. Jesus Christ was the bread from heaven. Which is talking about his celestial body, not his terrestrial body.

Christians are going to get a body fashioned liken unto the body of Christ - Philippians 3:21. I Corinth. 15:38 - "God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body" . The seed of Christ is spiritual. We as Christians, have the seed , the promised seed, of Christ - Gal. 3:16 = spiritual or celestial.

God is the Father of our Lord Jesus the Christ, the seed Son of God. He was the promised seed.

When Christians are raised from the dead, their Spirit sleepeth. The Spirit of his Son in our hearts, which cryeth Abba,Father. There are two resurrection. Our resurrection is - "Mortal , unto immortality"

What Romans 8:23 is talking about , is our "soul" and our "mortal body", not our physical body. I believe that if you look at Romans 8:10 and 11 that it makes the understanding much clearer.

Romans 8:10 - "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin ; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness"

Romans 8:11 - "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also "quicken" your "mortal" bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you"

You see, Romans 8:23 is talking about our Spiritual body, which is a "mortal body" , which is a celestial body, not a physical or terrestrial body. Understand ?

Our soul is dead, and our physical body has or will return to dust from which it was taken. The Spirit of Christ in you, which is mortal, heavenly, celestial, is within your soul in the grave, hence the words - "in you" at the end of verse 11.

You will be raised body, your new heavenly body, and soul, which has the Spirit , of Christ in you. Which was promised by Christ, would remain with you forever, and never leave you.

 

[Ahuli]

Please, my friend ... remember this ... thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God ... and statements like that are out of order. What would He do with a stone too big? Please don't say things like that anymore. It is disrespectful of our holy God.

I am sorry that you missed the purpose of my comment. To say that God can do anything , is much more disrespectful !

Can God lie ?

Can God change ?

We should be helping those who make such blank statements, in order that we may help their understanding.

Bless

Take my word for it...it isn't helping...it's nit-picking.

God can do anything He wants to do...He's God.

No, He cannot! He cannot make rules and regulations that don't also apply to HIM. He is a God of law and order, not immature mischief. See Jesus when He was on this earth; law and order applied to HIM, or HE could not insist it apply to us. That would be despotic/arbitrary. I sure hope YOUR God is not like that.

 

[Ahuli]

Quote glorydaz: "I know you've stated such many times, but you have never provided any Scripture that says the soul dies. "


Hi gd

Rev. 16:3 shows us that the soul dies.

Psalms 49:15 shows us that it is the soul that is redeemed from the power of the grave

Psalms 56:13 shows us that God delivers our soul from death

Job 33:28 & 30 - the word "pit" in this verse means corruption. The soul is corruptible. < Here the soul is expressed as the corruption of the soul, not the body.

Everything is still future, because of the promises of God. The last enemy - "death" has not been destroyed yet. When anyone dies, their soul dies and goes to the grave with the body. < Psalm 44:25

The soul that sins it shall die ... is basic scripture. Why people then insist it is not or is immortal when the bible also says that God only has immortality ... is something I will never understand.

 

[glorydaz]

Quote glorydaz: "I know you've stated such many times, but you have never provided any Scripture that says the soul dies. "


Hi gd

Rev. 16:3 shows us that the soul dies.

Psalms 49:15 shows us that it is the soul that is redeemed from the power of the grave

Psalms 56:13 shows us that God delivers our soul from death

Job 33:28 & 30 - the word "pit" in this verse means corruption. The soul is corruptible. < Here the soul is expressed as the corruption of the soul, not the body.

Everything is still future, because of the promises of God. The last enemy - "death" has not been destroyed yet. When anyone dies, their soul dies and goes to the grave with the body. < Psalm 44:25

The soul that sins it shall die ... is basic scripture. Why people then insist it is not or is immortal when the bible also says that God only has immortality ... is something I will never understand.

The soul that sins will die....doesn't the word "sin" lead you to think "day of judgment"...when we will give an account before God? The soul that sins will die in the lake of fire on the day of judgment, unless it's been bought with a price. Fear him who can destroy the soul in hell.


What is the everlasting life that been promised to all believers? Everlasting...immortal...what's the difference? God has always existed...for sure. And He always will exist. We have not always existed, but when we're born of the Spirit we are given eternal life. Perhaps you don't understand because you haven't looked with your eyes wide open. ;)