The Trinity

[Johann!@#]

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

• the Angel of the LORD appeared to him

• Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

How do we know the Angel of the Lord is Jesus? | Verse By Verse Ministry International

Delve into a detailed analysis exploring how the Angel of the Lord in biblical scripture represents the pre-incarnate Christ. Discover evidence from Genesis and beyond confirming Jesus' divine role before His earthly incarnation.

versebyverseministry.org

#:~:text=How%20do%20we%20know%20the%20Angel%20of%20the%20Lord%20is%20Jesus%3F

Who Is the Angel of the Lord?

Who is the Angel of the Lord? Flip through the pages of the Hebrew Scriptures and you’ll come across a figure who seems to carry a contradiction: the Angel of the Lord. So who is the Angel of the Lord, and what connection does he have to Yahweh?

bibleproject.com

Who Is the Angel of the Lord and What Is the Name of Yahweh?

Dr. Michael Heiser pieces together what we know about the name of Yahweh, focusing on the relationship between Yahweh and the angel of the Lord.

www.logos.com

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

Rather, "I am he".

Kind regards
Trevor

You’re arguing that Jesus merely identified Himself with a simple “I am he,” implying nothing more than self-identification. But that interpretation fails to account for the Greek grammar and historical context of John 8:58 and other absolute “I AM” statements in John’s Gospel.

Jesus says, ἐγώ εἰμι, not with a predicate (like “I am the shepherd”) but absolutely--“Before Abraham was, I am.” The verb used for Abraham’s coming into being is γενέσθαι (aorist infinitive of γίνομαι, “to come into existence”), while Jesus uses εἰμί (present indicative), signifying continuous, timeless existence.

He does not say, “I was” (ἤμην), which would be expected if He were merely making a chronological claim. Instead, He says “I AM”--mirroring the divine declaration in the LXX of Exodus 3:14, ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν (“I am the one who is”).

This is not an interpretive stretch. Even the Jewish audience immediately recognized the claim: they picked up stones to stone Him (John 8:59). Why? Because they rightly understood this as a claim to divinity-a direct identification with the eternal name of YHWH.

The grammar confirms this. ἐγώ is an emphatic personal pronoun. Greek verbs already contain the subject in their endings, so using ἐγώ with εἰμι is a way to stress self-identification in a unique, authoritative sense. This is not the ordinary “I am he” of everyday language. It is a theological declaration, and it occurs multiple times throughout John (e.g., 6:20, 8:24, 13:19, 18:5–6). In John 18, the soldiers physically fall back when Jesus says ἐγώ εἰμι--hardly the reaction to someone simply saying “I’m your guy.”

You’re free to argue that Jesus was misunderstood, but the burden of proof is on you to explain why John’s Greek grammar, Old Testament allusion, Jewish reaction, and Johannine theology all converge to say otherwise.

Shalom.

J.

 

[Randy]

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

• the Angel of the LORD appeared to him

• Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Exodus 3:13-14

• Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

One would assume God's Holy Spirit was there as well for it was holy ground. The angel was standing in the presence of God. God was speaking by His Spirit.

Jesus was alive "before" Abraham and was an eyewitness of Abraham.. Moses asked for a name. Not the same context.
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
“Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JLB and Johann,

The scriptures teach us Moses was looking at God.

The Hebrew word "Elohim" is sometimes used for Angels.

Instead, He says “I AM”--mirroring the divine declaration in the LXX of Exodus 3:14, ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν (“I am the one who is”)

Tyndale translates Exodus 3:14 as "I wilbe what I wilbe".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Randy,

Jesus was alive "before" Abraham and was an eyewitness of Abraham.. Moses asked for a name. Not the same context.
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
“Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”

John 8:56 (KJV): Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JLB]

The Hebrew word "Elohim" is sometimes used for Angels.

Also “gods”; demons.

So the context should dictate the meaning, especially when contextually linked with LORD (YHWH). Also the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

• the Angel of the LORD appeared to him
• So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look,
• God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Contextually unmistakably.


So do you believe Moses was looking at God the Father or the Son?

 

[JLB]

One would assume God's Holy Spirit was there as well for it was holy ground. The angel was standing in the presence of God. God was speaking by His Spirit.

Jesus was alive "before" Abraham and was an eyewitness of Abraham.. Moses asked for a name. Not the same context.
You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
“Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”

What we know for sure is Moses was looking at God.

• And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.