The Trinity....

[Benoni]

God is one; not three person’s; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?

 

[follower of Christ]

God is one; not three person’s; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?

Oh good grief.
Read the OP, friend.
Sorry if scripture isnt laid out in a format you demand, but it simply isnt.
The rest of us look at the EVIDENCE and harmonize it to understand what the WHOLE presents.

 

[Benoni]

Goodgrief... Just show me chapter and verse where God is made up of three persons.

Would you like to show you where God's Word declares God is one?


God does not change. If you cannot show me God is made up of three persons you have no trinity.

God is one; not three person’s; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?

Oh good grief.
Read the OP, friend.
Sorry if scripture isnt laid out in a format you demand, but it simply isnt.
The rest of us look at the EVIDENCE and harmonize it to understand what the WHOLE presents.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Is Jesus also His Father?

 

[Benoni]

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity. Unless you can show me chapter and verse please? Also I cannot find the verse where the HS was the third person of the trinity; or even God being the first person of th trinity? Maybe you can help me seeing you believe this is so true?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Is Jesus also His Father?

 

[follower of Christ]

Goodgrief... Just show me chapter and verse where God is made up of three persons.

Again... READ the OP.
I know how you work, friend. You make UNREASONABLE demands on the texts and when they cant be given in the exact manner YOU demand you seem to think youve won the discussion.
Sorry, but the only one your fooling is yourself...evidence doesnt conform to YOUR childish demands, I'm afraid.

Would you like to show you where God's Word declares God is one?

Would you like us to show where Jesus IS God ?

God does not change. If you cannot show me God is made up of three persons you have no trinity.

Firstly go learn what the word 'evidence' means and how to use it.
Then when youve completed that simple task go read the OP again

 

[Dave Slayer]

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity. Unless you can show me chapter and verse please? Also I cannot find the verse where the HS was the third person of the trinity; or even God being the first person of th trinity? Maybe you can help me seeing you believe this is so true?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Is Jesus also His Father?

Benoni, do you believe in Modalism?

 

[follower of Christ]

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity.

Huh.
I guess your 'god' likes to talk to himself, no ?

Unless you can show me chapter and verse please?

OP...read it...

Also I cannot find the verse where the HS was the third person of the trinity; or even God being the first person of th trinity? Maybe you can help me seeing you believe this is so true?

So your claim is that the Holy Spirit that came down like a Dove ISNT 'God', then ? Huh...

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity.

I guess your god also likes to tell lies ?

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

*IF* Jesus isnt His own person then He would HAVE to know the day and hour and thus He would be a LIAR for saying that ONLY His Father knew, NOT the Son

 

[Benoni]

I do not care about all of this garbadigoop. God can manifested himself any way he wants to be it a burning bush or a firely pillar. All I am asking you to do is show me that God is made up of three persons? When you can show me this simple fact you have a trinity; if you can't you have nothing but a false doctrine. SOOOO Simple.

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity.

Huh.
I guess your 'god' likes to talk to himself, no ?

Unless you can show me chapter and verse please?

OP...read it...
[quote:2j98sb2n]
Also I cannot find the verse where the HS was the third person of the trinity; or even God being the first person of th trinity? Maybe you can help me seeing you believe this is so true?

So your claim is that the Holy Spirit that came down like a Dove ISNT 'God', then ? Huh...

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity.

I guess your god also likes to tell lies ?

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

*IF* Jesus isnt His own person then He would HAVE to know the day and hour and thus He would be a LIAR for saying that ONLY His Father knew, NOT the Son [/quote:2j98sb2n]

 

[follower of Christ]

I do not care about all of this garbadigoop.

Course ya dont....it trashes your error and exposes it for what it is....pork tripe

God can manifested himself any way he wants to be it a burning bush or a firely pillar.

God CAN make Himself into a cheese sandwich if He WANTS to. What He CAN do isnt the topic here.

All I am asking you to do is show me that God is made up of three persons?

Again, learn what 'evidence' means and how to use it.
Then go read the op AGAIN

When you can show me this simple fact you have a trinity; if you can't you have nothing but a false doctrine. SOOOO Simple.

Sorry but there are a few areas of doctrine that MORE than one passage must be harmonized to understand.
Again, I know your pathetic game of demanding that the text say what you want them to say, but your game is exposed for what it is, Im afraid.
We will look at the evidence as a WHOLE....such as Jesus saying that ONLY the FATHER knows the day and hour....the SON does not....which in a nail in the coffin of your fallacy, whether you understand that fact or not.

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

...

 

[Benoni]

The word person has everything to do with a carnal, human person, check out Webster seeing you cannot find the three persons in God’s Word? The word persons have nothing to do with God, who is not a person but a spirit. The word person is a religious term and cannot be found in scripture when it comes to God being a person.

You speak of evidence; here is evidence.

One God
Malachi 2: 10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

NOTICE the NT declares God is one, never three persons

Mark 12
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Romans 3
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Corinthians 8
.
Ephesians 4
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Timothy 2
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

James 2
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Mark 12
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Galatians 3
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Now that is evidence, where is your evidence God is three persons?

I do not care about all of this garbadigoop.

Course ya dont....it trashes your error and exposes it for what it is....pork tripe

God can manifested himself any way he wants to be it a burning bush or a firely pillar.

God CAN make Himself into a cheese sandwich if He WANTS to. What He CAN do isnt the topic here.

[quote:2i2nwo0u] All I am asking you to do is show me that God is made up of three persons?

Again, learn what 'evidence' means and how to use it.
Then go read the op AGAIN

When you can show me this simple fact you have a trinity; if you can't you have nothing but a false doctrine. SOOOO Simple.

Sorry but there are a few areas of doctrine that MORE than one passage must be harmonized to understand.
Again, I know your pathetic game of demanding that the text say what you want them to say, but your game is exposed for what it is, Im afraid.
We will look at the evidence as a WHOLE....such as Jesus saying that ONLY the FATHER knows the day and hour....the SON does not....which in a nail in the coffin of your fallacy, whether you understand that fact or not.

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

...[/quote:2i2nwo0u]

 

[follower of Christ]

You speak of evidence; here is evidence.

Again, either Jesus is His own 'person' or He is a liar when He says that the SON does not know the day and hour but the FATHER does...

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

And your passages prove nothing except what we agree with...that there is ONE God.
One God, Three Persons.
A concept that the carnal mind seems unable to grasp.

.

 

[follower of Christ]

Now that is evidence, where is your evidence God is three persons?

In the REST of the evidence already presented for your rejection
Here it is again for your amusement...


The Trinity

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
To show that Jesus IS God and to show that the Holy Spirit IS God and therefore the Trinity teaching is scriptural truth.

Supporting Evidence

1.0
Is Jesus God ?

Isaiah shows us exactly who Jesus is.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
(Joh 20:28 MKJV)

If Jesus isnt His own person in the Godhead, then He must be a liar here because He shows that the FATHER knows the day and hour here, but the SON does not.

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

*IF* Jesus isnt His own person then He would HAVE to know the day and hour and thus He would be a LIAR for saying that ONLY His Father knew, NOT the Son.


2.0
Is the Holy Spirit 'God' ?

Scripture shows that the Spirit of GOD came down upon Christ...

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him.
(Mat 3:16 EMTV)

And Luke shows that this IS the Holy Spirit.

and the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came out of heaven, saying, "You are My beloved Son; in You I have found delight."
(Luk 3:22 EMTV)

Thus the evidence shows that the 'Spirit of God' and the 'Holy Spirit' are one and the same.

3.0
And here we tie it all together.

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him. And behold, a voice came out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I have found delight."
(Matthew 3:16-17 EMTV)

1. Jesus, the Son who is called 'Mighty God' in Isaiah.
2. The Spirit descending in the form of a dove, who is the Spirit OF God.
3. The Father speaking from heaven, obvious enough.

 

[Benoni]

So what is your point, each one of the verse you posted never shows God is three pesons. You ignoring the fact the Bible never uses the word person when it comes to God, God is not a carnal person.

The word Godhead is a religious term and does not come from the original language but was put there by bias religious men to push the false doctrine of the trinity. God is one; not three person’s; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?

Godhead….2304 theios (thi'-os);

from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity):

Notice how KJV has added this word that simple means divine. KJV-- divine, godhead.

2316 theos (theh'-os); of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:

KJV-- X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

 

[wavy]

Paidion calls up a valid point. His argument is somewhat awkward; the conclusion does not follow from the premises, but the tenor is appreciated.

The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God

These all have to be defined or they're meaningless affirmations. What does it mean to say 'x' is God? That 'x' is divine? Then you have polytheism, or at best, a trifurcate godhead, where each part contributes a third to the whole. Is it an identity statement? Then the three persons cannot be individuated, because if 'the Father is God' and 'Jesus is God' are identity statements, then it is logically necessary that the Father = Jesus.

On Isaiah ix.5, this passage has nothing to do with Jesus, much less a person in the godhead. Rather, as a reference to a historical king of Israel (probably Hezekiah) the lofty appellatives are either theophoric names, or, as I am inclined towards, evidence for divine kingship in ancient Israel, characteristic of ANE royal ideology. Psalm xlv.6 would tend to support this supposition.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[wavy]

Word games.
Scripture shows that the Father IS God....and the Son IS God....and the Spirit IS God.
There is no getting around that fact, Im afraid and all these semantics games change nothing

Not 'word games'. Very pertinent if any of those propositions are to carry meaning.

'God is juice-berry succulence' is a meaningless statement unless we having an understanding of the terms involved.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[wavy]

No offense but the Jews werent exactly the most understanding bunch concerning the scriptures and the TRUE intent thereof. Paul says that even then they had a veil over their eyes whenever they read the Law and that it was only taken away in Christ.

And Jews could say the same thing about Christians, but that's immaterial. It's the evidence adduced that is important, not the disparagement of the relevant groups. However, in view of the Hebrew bible being Jewish, I'm no Einstein (who was also Jewish) but I would think what Jews would have to say about this matter would be of consummate importance.

'I dont like what it says so it wasnt rendered properly' deflection. Sorry, I pass
Maybe half of you here should have been around centuries ago to help our translators and God get it right

I'm not at home with my resources right now, but if you insist upon on it, when I get there I'd be happy to relay the results of scholarship in this regard. And I'm not one for being on the receiving end of spoilers myself, so I'll afford you a sneak peek: scholarship is not in your favor.

Irrelevant.
The passage is PROPHECY. a LOT of prophecy in the OT is actually in the context of some other topic. The tense isnt relevant in this sort of case.

Now you're just being unreasonable. Without begging the question, how do you know the passage in question is a prophecy?

Thanks,
Eric

 

[wavy]

I would argue against that but for the sake of argument I'll use that line of reasoning. The concept of a dead, and particularly resurrected, Messiah was not at all a Jewish belief either but further revelation revealed that that was indeed the case.

See red. I'd be interested in hearing those arguments.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[wavy]

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity. Unless you can show me chapter and verse please? Also I cannot find the verse where the HS was the third person of the trinity; or even God being the first person of th trinity? Maybe you can help me seeing you believe this is so true?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Well, technically the original reading of this verse is '[He] who was revealed...', not 'God...'.


Thanks,
Eric

 

[Benoni]

Good point, but without the fact being revealed that God is three persons in scripture there can be no trinity. God is one; always has been.

Jesus was GOD manifested in the flesh, not the second person of the trinity. Unless you can show me chapter and verse please? Also I cannot find the verse where the HS was the third person of the trinity; or even God being the first person of th trinity? Maybe you can help me seeing you believe this is so true?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Well, technically the original reading of this verse is '[He] who was revealed...', not 'God...'.


Thanks,
Eric