The Trinity....

[Ed the Ned]

Genesis 1 vs 26 "Then God said 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'"
Does that not prove that God is more than one? That he consists of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Benoni]

The word for God/god in Genesis 1:26 is elohiym which is used all though out the Bible.

OT:430

'elohiym (el-o-heem'); plural of OT:433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:

Notice the word “pluralâ€Â, that is where they get the us. This is quite a debate what men perceive as Elohim… Sometimes this word has a capital “G†other times a lower caseâ€Âgâ€Â. In Ps. 82 it is used with a lower case’s’.

Let us make us is the Hebrew word “asah†OT:6213

`asah (aw-saw'); a primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application (as follows):

KJV - accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, X certainly, have the charge of, commit, deal (with), deck, + displease, do, (ready) dress (-ed), (put in) execute (-ion), exercise, fashion, + feast, [fighting-] man, + finish, fit, fly, follow, fulfill, furnish, gather, get, go about, govern, grant, great, + hinder, hold ([a feast]), X indeed, + be industrious, + journey, keep, labour, maintain, make, be meet, observe, be occupied, offer, + officer, pare, bring (come) to pass, perform, pracise, prepare, procure, provide, put, requite, X sacrifice, serve, set, shew, X sin, spend, X surely, take, X thoroughly, trim, X very, + vex, be [warr-] ior, work (-man), yield, use.


There are many names and descriptive titles of God in the scriptures. He is called Counselor, King, Shepherd, Rock, Shield, High Tower, Strong Arm, Saviour, Redeemer, Father, Yahweh, Elohim, El Shaddai, El Elyon, Jesus (Yahshua), and many, many others. Someone has said that there are about two hundred names for God in the Bible! The moment one begins to splinter the absolute wholeness that God is, to examine all His multi-faceted aspects and attributes, the number of splinters are as infinite as God is infinite. Each name of God, as He progressively revealed Himself, was a fresh and fuller revelation of the nature of God. One was a revelation of His Self-existence, another of His might, another was the unveiling of His grace. One revealed something more of His wisdom, another of His holiness, another of His tenderness, another of His exaltation and honor, another of His judgment, and so on.

Psalm 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. (notice little “g†or Elohim)
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Genesis 1 vs 26 "Then God said 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'"
Does that not prove that God is more than one? That he consists of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[follower of Christ]

So what is your point, each one of the verse you posted never shows God is three pesons. You ignoring the fact the Bible never uses the word person when it comes to God, God is not a carnal person.

Thats really funny.
As I said, when you learn what 'evidence' is and how to use it, then go read the OP again and we'll talk.

The word Godhead is a religious term and does not come from the original language but was put there by bias religious men to push the false doctrine of the trinity. God is one; not three person’s; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?

Words have meanings taken typically from CONTEXT and USAGE.
Whatever 'divinity' that exists in IN Jesus Christ....

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
(Colossians 2:9 EMTV)

Godhead
G2320
θεÃ΀ηÂ
theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead


G2320
θεÃ΀ηÂ
theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
From G2316; divinity (abstractly): - godhead.

REGARDLESS of how the word theotes was RENDERED, its MEANING and INTENT is 'divinity'...ie Jesus Christ is DIVINE...ie a DEITY....ie GOD.
If Jesus IS God yet Jesus does NOT KNOW the day and hour of His return but ONLY the Father does (aka GOD) then there MUST BE some DISTINCTION between them...even tho BOTH ARE God.


Another round

 

[follower of Christ]

Paidion calls up a valid point. His argument is somewhat awkward; the conclusion does not follow from the premises, but the tenor is appreciated.

The Father is God
Jesus is God
The Holy Spirit is God

These all have to be defined or they're meaningless affirmations. What does it mean to say 'x' is God? That 'x' is divine? Then you have polytheism, or at best, a trifurcate godhead, where each part contributes a third to the whole. Is it an identity statement? Then the three persons cannot be individuated, because if 'the Father is God' and 'Jesus is God' are identity statements, then it is logically necessary that the Father = Jesus.

There is ONE God.
Scripture proves that Jesus IS God.
The Spirit OF God would be....well thats a no brainer.
The Father is God as well.
The THREE BEING God leave two possibilities. Either God is putting on a wonderfully deceptive puppet show for us all, or the three 'manifestations, as it was put, are their own persons within the 'Godhead'.

Jesus...aka GOD...NOT KNOWING the day and hour of His return, but the Father...aka GOD...knowing it proves that there IS a distinction between the two, yet both ARE God.

Whether you folks like it or not THIS sort of evidence is what has caused the church to BELIEVE in this concept of 'Trinity' even if we do not fully understand it.

On Isaiah ix.5, this passage has nothing to do with Jesus, much less a person in the godhead.

In YOUR opinion, friend.
Bible scholars for 2000 years would disagree.
Who do I side with, some guy on the internet or men who have devoted their entire lives to the study of His word ?

Rather, as a reference to a historical king of Israel (probably Hezekiah) the lofty appellatives are either theophoric names, or, as I am inclined towards, evidence for divine kingship in ancient Israel, characteristic of ANE royal ideology. Psalm xlv.6 would tend to support this supposition.

Thanks,
Eric

and AGAIN this is exactly how MUCH of 'prophecy' works.
It is hidden in texts about contemporary persons/events but alludes to something future.
I think you might want to study up on OT prophecy a bit more, friend, because THIS is no argument at all

 

[follower of Christ]

Not 'word games'. Very pertinent if any of those propositions are to carry meaning.

'God is juice-berry succulence' is a meaningless statement unless we having an understanding of the terms involved.

Thanks,
Eric

So because you say we dont understand the terms that means that the specific aspects and descriptions are therefore nullified?

Just because we dont fully understand something doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

When I was a kid they called it the 'strongforce' that held an atom together, but they didnt understand how it worked. They give it a name even NOT knowing what it was exactly....did that NULLIFY anything ?
No, it didnt.
At some point they seemed to have figured it out, but BEFORE they did it didnt CHANGE anything that they DIDNT have an complete understanding of what was going on.
(I dont want my thread derailed with this topic, please, Im just making a point with it)

Its not meaningless to see EVIDENCE yet not fully understand what the evidence is pointing to. It doesnt NULLIFY the details of that evidence either.

 

[Benoni]

Yes there is one God; just because Jesus walked the earth does not mean the whole of divinity walked the earth. Jesus was God's son just like Adam was God's son. One ordain to fall, the other ordained to overcome.

What you refuse to recognize is God is one not three persons. I said earlier until you can prove using God's Word that God is made up of three persons all you have is another false doctrine. The doctrine of the trinity proclaims this so back it up with God's Word.

Here is your false doctrine so you can see it declares “God as subsisting in three distinct Persons†well that may be what you believe but show me where it declares this false assumption in God’s Word. I already posted God is one in at least ten verses; you have not posted one verse saying God is three persons. Who should I believe you or God’s Word.

Trinity

A word not found in Scripture, but used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr. trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isaiah 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

Easton's Bible Dictionary

 

[walter]

You guys are giving me a headache.

Just as we have three aspects of ourselves: Body, Mind, Spirit

God has at least three aspects of Himself: Father, Son, Holy Spirit

One man: Three aspects
One God: Three aspects

I don't need to quote scripture because, sorry guys and gals, I just know it to be the truth.

 

[follower of Christ]

And Jews could say the same thing about Christians, but that's immaterial. It's the evidence adduced that is important, not the disparagement of the relevant groups.

I see, so NOW its irrelevant ;)
Then I hope no one will try this distraction that we dont agree with the Jews about the aspects of God again

However, in view of the Hebrew bible being Jewish, I'm no Einstein (who was also Jewish) but I would think what Jews would have to say about this matter would be of consummate importance.

Did ya read what Paul said that I quoted for ya ?
They didnt understand the Old Testament...they were BLINDED to it.
You think that gives them some ability to understand something over people who ARENT blinded to the scriptures ?
If so, I think you should really sit down and ponder on it for a while....

I'm not at home with my resources right now, but if you insist upon on it, when I get there I'd be happy to relay the results of scholarship in this regard.

I'll here all the time

And I'm not one for being on the receiving end of spoilers myself, so I'll afford you a sneak peek: scholarship is not in your favor.

Thats pretty good.
The church as believed in the Trinity for 1900+ years and YOU claim the scholarship isnt in my favor.
Did ya think I would buy this one ?

Now you're just being unreasonable. Without begging the question, how do you know the passage in question is a prophecy?

Thanks,
Eric

By comparing contemporary events with OT scriptures, simply put.
Do you think that every word in Psalms is about Jesus ? Of course not.
But there is a LOT in there that gives direct prophecy about Him..even tho it doesnt mention Him by name.

Again, some of you need to learn more about OT prophecy and how it works before this discussion could continue.

And frankly, this is only dealing with ONE verse of the evidence I presented.
Is this your only argument ?
What about the REST of the data ?
Does it go no attention at all...or do you actually believe you can tear down the Trinity concept by arguing against ONE verse in Isaiah ?

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes there is one God; just because Jesus walked the earth does not mean the whole of divinity walked the earth. Jesus was God's son just like Adam was God's son. One ordain to fall, the other ordained to overcome.

What you refuse to recognize is God is one not three persons.
I said earlier until you can prove using God's Word that God is made up of three persons all you have is another false doctrine. The doctrine of the trinity proclaims this so back it up with God's Word.

Please.
You have yet to provide even a single piece of evidence to the contrary...

Here is your false doctrine so you can see it declares “God as subsisting in three distinct Persons†well that may be what you believe but show me where it declares this false assumption in God’s Word. I already posted God is one in at least ten verses; you have not posted one verse saying God is three persons. Who should I believe you or God’s Word.

laughable.
Again..learn what EVIDENCE is and then get back with me.

Jesus IS God, yet doesnt know details that the Father (aka GOD) DOES know.
That PROVES conclusively that there IS a distinction between them...even if you are incapable of comprehending that fact.

Trinity

A word not found in Scripture,

Irrelevant.
It is a CONCEPT that IS found in scripture...we simply put a name TO that CONCEPT.

 

[Benoni]

Spin.. You call it laughable. You call it evidence and you cannot give me ONE VERSE that in any way says God is three person. Yes Jesus walked the earth in an earthen vessel; He spoke to God His Father because He was human flesh and died for us with that human body for the sin of the whole world; He reversed the curse. But God is one not thee persons.

Yes there is one God; just because Jesus walked the earth does not mean the whole of divinity walked the earth. Jesus was God's son just like Adam was God's son. One ordain to fall, the other ordained to overcome.

What you refuse to recognize is God is one not three persons.
I said earlier until you can prove using God's Word that God is made up of three persons all you have is another false doctrine. The doctrine of the trinity proclaims this so back it up with God's Word.

Please.
You have yet to provide even a single piece of evidence to the contrary...

Here is your false doctrine so you can see it declares “God as subsisting in three distinct Persons†well that may be what you believe but show me where it declares this false assumption in God’s Word. I already posted God is one in at least ten verses; you have not posted one verse saying God is three persons. Who should I believe you or God’s Word.

laughable.
Again..learn what EVIDENCE is and then get back with me.

Jesus IS God, yet doesnt know details that the Father (aka GOD) DOES know.
That PROVES conclusively that there IS a distinction between them...even if you are incapable of comprehending that fact.


[quote:3mwfrosu]Trinity

A word not found in Scripture,

Irrelevant.
It is a CONCEPT that IS found in scripture...we simply put a name TO that CONCEPT.[/quote:3mwfrosu]

 

[walter]

You guys are giving me a headache.

Just as we have three aspects of ourselves: Body, Mind, Spirit

God has at least three aspects of Himself: Father, Son, Holy Spirit

One man: Three aspects
One God: Three aspects

I don't need to quote scripture because, sorry guys and gals, I just know it to be the truth.

In case you missed it.

 

[follower of Christ]

Genesis 1 vs 26 "Then God said 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'"
Does that not prove that God is more than one? That he consists of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

>>>See HERE<<<


.

 

[follower of Christ]

Spin.. You call it laughable. You call it evidence and you cannot give me ONE VERSE that in any way says God is three person.

Please...PLEASE...dont EVER sit on a jury deciding my fate :D

Id bring the Johannine Comma to bear on you just to prove a point, but since I dont believe it belongs I wont waste my time. ;)

Yes Jesus walked the earth in an earthen vessel; He spoke to God His Father because He was human flesh and died for us with that human body for the sin of the whole world; He reversed the curse. But God is one not thee persons.

So again your god is talking to himself...praying to himself...and putting on a very fine act for us all.

And AGAIN...the FATHER knew something the SON did not...they CANNOT BE the same 'person' and NOT know EVERYTHING that the other knows

Your arguments are illogical

.If Jesus isnt His own person in the Godhead, then He must be a liar here because He shows that the FATHER knows the day and hour here, but the SON does not.

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)


*IF* Jesus isnt His own person then He would HAVE to know the day and hour and thus He would be a LIAR for saying that ONLY His Father knew, NOT the Son.

 

[follower of Christ]

The word for God/god in Genesis 1:26 is elohiym which is used all though out the Bible.

>>>See HERE<<<

 

[Free]

This thread needs some time to cool down.