The Trinity

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popsthebuilder said:
The Word and the Spirit are the same to me. As is the FATHER.
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They weren't to John nor the rest of the NT writers. They took great care to not confound the persons.

popsthebuilder said:
Distinct in that the Word came out from GOD.
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The Word, the Son, was begotten but because he is also God, because a son is always of the same nature as his father, he is said to be eternally begotten. That is just the logical conclusion.

popsthebuilder said:
You think one of t three GOD almighties became flesh and was still one third and 100% GOD almighty?!
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No, the second person of the one triune God became flesh. There are no thirds in the Trinity. Each person is truly and fully God.

popsthebuilder said:
But the flesh profits nothing.
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What do you mean by this, especially since you are responding to my statement, "became flesh for the salvation of humans and the redemption of all creation"?

popsthebuilder said:
Isnt too odd when you realize one isn't three and man isn't GOD.
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It is odd. All three clauses, and indeed all of Scripture, must be taken into account.

popsthebuilder said:
The whole bible must be taken into account.
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Yes, that is what I have been saying and why the doctrine of the Trinity best takes all that God reveals of himself into account.

popsthebuilder said:
Descended from GOD. Son of man. Came out from GOD; not the extent of GOD. But none of that applies if you contend that there are three god almighties.
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I don't contend "that there are three god almighties." No trinitarian does.

popsthebuilder said:
It follows just fine as it is stated that He was in all was as us, and that we are as his brothers and sisters, and even that we will do even greater works than he. So do you contend that man will do greater works than GOS almighty? Didn't think so.
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It doesn't follow. Jesus alone is the God-man, having two natures, perfectly united and not mixed or confused, in the one person.

popsthebuilder said:
If you really would like to study with me then hit me up privately about it.
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Why? They are relevant to this discussion which we are already having.
 
grace2 said:
Where did anywhere Jesus say He is God?

You haven't answered this simple question in those of your humongous posts.
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Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
 
grace2 said:
You are so dishonest.

Jesus never said He is God.

I guess you have not read the Bible.

Because there is no word from Jesus that says that He is God.
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Do not tell others they are dishonest just because you do not agree with them. This is a violation of the ToS 1.1. let this be just a warning to you.
 
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popsthebuilder said:
In reading all of John 8 we can easily conclude that Jesus was in no way claiming to be coequal to or coeternal with GOD almighty. John 8:26-28 helps to make this very obvious as He reiterates that He is only speaking what He was given to speak, by GOD, the Spirit of the FATHER. If you keep reading you see that Jesus explains how He is united with the FATHER. He exclaims that the Spirit (GOD) resides in Him, and is pleased with due to Him always doing the will of the FATHER. John 8:42 really sends this message home, as does John 8:55.

We seem to agree that the flesh profits nothing. So then you saying Jesus was GOD as man is really you saying the Spirit within Him was GOD. On this we would agree. But if you aren't claiming the physical man Jesus was GOD almighty as He walked the earth then what are the three? The son in your three doesn't represent the man Jesus? And if it doesn't then does it not suggest that the son would reference the Spirit? And if so then we are back to square one sorta in that there is one GOD that i spirit and that spirit is the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of the Father, and also at times refered to the Spirit of Christ.

What distinction is there really? I don't see three at all really; not that one could consider separate or distinct and also coeternal and coequal.

The usage of the term "trinity" is utterly flawed given it's historical meaning.
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Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
 
for_his_glory said:
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
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Thanks. I'm certain all of those refer to the Spirit within the temple, and none of them declare GOD is a coeternal, coequal trinity of beings or persona.
 
for_his_glory said:
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8
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Nothing of those verses says Jesus is God.

You are making your own doctrines.

If you think I am lying, show me where Jesus says "I am God"?
 
THINK! said:
Why is the Dogma of the Trinity so important?
It distorts EVERYTHING ELSE you read in the Bible!
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You answered your own question, except that it makes sense of everything that God reveals of himself in the Bible. It's rather important that we get God right, especially Jesus, don't you think?
 
Free said:
You answered your own question, except that it makes sense of everything that God reveals of himself in the Bible. It's rather important that we get God right, especially Jesus, don't you think?
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Did God send Themselves, Free?
Did God pray to Themselves?
Did God die?
Did God resurrect Themselves?
Did God give Themselves all power and authority?
 
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THINK! said:
Did God send Themselves, Free?
Did God pray to Themselves?
Did God die?
Did God resurrect Themselves?
Did God give Themselves all power and authority?
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Your questions presuppose that the persons of the Trinity aren't distinct, which suggests that you do not understand the doctrine.
 
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THINK! said:
As if ANYBODY does.
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Some more than others.

THINK! said:
You can't answer the question(s)?
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Like I said, you’re presupposing that the persons of the Trinity aren’t distinct. They’re the questions of someone who hasn’t tried to learn the doctrine of the Trinity.

THINK! said:
Did God send Themselves, Free?
Did God pray to Themselves?
Did God die?
Did God resurrect Themselves?
Did God give Themselves all power and authority?
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God the Father sent God the Son, who is the Word.

The Son incarnate prayed to the Father.

The incarnate Son of God died.

All three persons of the Trinity were involved in raising Christ from the dead.

God the Father gave the incarnate Son all authority.
 
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Free said:
Some more than others.


Like I said, you’re presupposing that the persons of the Trinity aren’t distinct. They’re the questions of someone who hasn’t tried to learn the doctrine of the Trinity.


God the Father sent God the Son, who is the Word.
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Free said:
The Son incarnate prayed to the Father.
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So One God prayed to another, but not to the GodGhost...
Free said:
The incarnate Son of God died.
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So God WAS dead- or at least One of Them!
Free said:
All three persons of the Trinity were involved in raising Christ from the dead.
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Wait- the SonGod was DEAD (according to you)! How could He take part?
Free said:
God the Father gave the incarnate Son all authority.
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If the Catholic Dogma were true- He already HAD it!

Thanks for your attempt to answer those Questions- but that leaves further questions!
 
THINK! said:
So One God prayed to another, but not to the GodGhost...

So God WAS dead- or at least One of Them!

Wait- the SonGod was DEAD (according to you)! How could He take part?

If the Catholic Dogma were true- He already HAD it!

Thanks for your attempt to answer those Questions- but that leaves further questions!
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This is why I knew it would be a waste of time to answer the questions. You begin with a false assumption, so the questions are nonsense to you, which means any answer given will be as well. If you actually tried to understand the doctrine of the Trinity and actually read what I said, then you would understand my answers.
 
Free said:
This is why I knew it would be a waste of time to answer the questions. You begin with a false assumption, so the questions are nonsense to you, which means any answer given will be as well. If you actually tried to understand the doctrine of the Trinity and actually read what I said, then you would understand my answers.
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So you say I don't understand this while not being able to explain it (in a way that makes any KIND of sense).
 
THINK! said:
So you say I don't understand this while not being able to explain it (in a way that makes any KIND of sense).
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Except that I did. If you read close enough and understood the doctrine of the Trinity, you would see that my answers make sense.
 
triunetemplate_orig.jpg

The Trinity makes NO sense in any universe.
 
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