You don't control what others have to say. I will not respond to your accusations.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Victorious Christ
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Of course not.
It’s just a known psychological phenomenon, that’s all. As a student of human behaviour, I find it quite interesting, especially among those who profess Christ and should be seekers of truth. Christians should be the most willing to accept challenges to their beliefs and be the most willing to change, since we know that we all know in part.
Again, the fallacy of equivocation. I am far from being under a curse. It is your position that fails to take into account all that the Bible says. You haven’t even tried.
Robert Pate
Member
If you are not living by faith in Christ and his Gospel, then you are most likely under the curse.
Especially if one follows written rules.
Then I’m not under the curse. I’m glad that’s settled.
I follow the ones that the writers of the NT wrote, including the ones I’ve posted twice in this thread. I dare not ignore the inspired words of Scripture.
You don’t have obey Christ?
Is Christ the king?
Not according to christ and scripture
Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
If ye love me, keep my commandments. Jn 14:15 to name a few
Following written rules, as opposed to following the Holy Spirit's guidance, is putting one's self under the law.
Again, this is a false dichotomy and fallacy of equivocation. Putting one's self under the law occurs if and only if a person puts themself under the law of Moses for the purpose of justification.
There are numerous rules and commands for believers to follow in the NT, and, as donadams has pointed out, we are commanded to follow those rules and commands. Jesus commanded the apostles to teach new disciples "to observe all that I have commanded you." That is, all believers are to follow the same commands that Jesus commanded the apostles. That is why we see these rules and commands in the writings of the NT. This is all under the law of the Spirit of life, the law of God.
Robert Pate
Member
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all written under the Old Covenant. The only books of the Bible that were written under the New Covenant were Paul's epistles. Under the New Covenant, "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. The only ones that live by laws, rules and religion are Pharisees.
That is simply your opinion, with which I disagree.
Romans 2:29, "Rather, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not the written code. Such a person receives praise not from humans but from God."
Romans 7:6, "But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."
2 Corinthians 2:3-4, "You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by all, and you show that you are a letter of Christ, prepared by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets that are human hearts."
There is a clear difference. I believe Paul, not you.
Jesus commanded the apostles to teach new disciples "to observe all that I have commanded you." By the Holy Spirit, of course. Jesus did not write any new set of laws!
John 16:13, "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
I will not debate this with you. I accept what the Bible clearly says. Period.
So, was Jesus telling his disciples to go and make disciples under the law, to obey the law of Moses as Jesus had commanded? Were they to baptize into the law of Moses, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
And, yet, as I have posted twice and you have yet to address, Paul mentions numerous rules and commands for believers to follow, many of those in Romans. It seems as though you're bringing in the worldly definition of "freedom" into understanding what freedom in Christ entails.
You are free to disagree but you actually haven't addressed any counterarguments or even tried to prove my points wrong.
None of this goes against my position.
You seem accept some of what the Bible says. Look at just what Romans 12 states:
Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
...
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
Rom 12:11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.
Rom 12:12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
Rom 12:13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
Rom 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
Rom 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (ESV)
How many rules or commands for believers are there in just that chapter? I counted just over 30. Not to mention, Robert Pate , 12:20 is quotations from Proverbs, "under the old covenant" and not to be obeyed, according to you. That's for Pharisees (supposedly).
John 16:13, "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come." I believe what Jesus clearly says.
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All,
I believe the Bible is truly God's written word. I believe what it says. I do not accept the opinion of anyone that, in my opinion, disagrees with what its written. Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit who would guide us into all truth. I received the Holy Spirit from Jesus in 1977 and He has been my guide since then.
I read the Bible daily and pray to God (often in tongues) to guide me into all truth. Period. I compare the "wisdom" of men and women to what the Bible says. If it differs, which it often does, I believe God.
Read my signature below if you need clarification.
I believe the Bible is truly God's written word. I believe what it says. I do not accept the opinion of anyone that, in my opinion, disagrees with what its written. Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit who would guide us into all truth. I received the Holy Spirit from Jesus in 1977 and He has been my guide since then.
I read the Bible daily and pray to God (often in tongues) to guide me into all truth. Period. I compare the "wisdom" of men and women to what the Bible says. If it differs, which it often does, I believe God.
Read my signature below if you need clarification.
As do I. That verse fully fits within what I believe. I also believe that a large outworking of this very statement is the inspiration of Scripture, the very same Scripture which gives believers numerous rules and commands to follow, such as those in Romans 12. I also believe that another outworking of that statement is that the Holy Spirit will guide us through those same inspired words. That is the whole reason they were written.
If all we need is the Holy Spirit, and we can ignore all of the NT rules and commands, the we can literally just throw out our Bibles; at best they become redundant and, at worst, useless. Such is the logical conclusion when one falsely believes that any and all rules and commands for believers put one under the law of Moses, which is both a false dichotomy and the fallacy of equivocation.
"A large outworking of this very statement is the inspiration of Scripture, the very same Scripture which gives believers numerous rules and commands to follow and if all we need is the Holy Spirit, and we can ignore all of the NT rules and commands, the we can literally just throw out our Bibles; at best they become redundant and, at worst, useless" are illogical statements.
Jesus said that God would send the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Period.
"Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:2
How, exactly, are they illogical?
You just used a rule or command for believers to try and prove that we have no rules or commands to follow. That is self-defeating, which is, by definition, illogical.