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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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M
Mitspa
Guest
I guess since i am a WoF guy? you think i will tell you a "big" fish tale?
i just do a little lake fishin, i like to catch a few "large mouth" bass.
And guess what? i dont catch fish, every time! but i keep on fishin and more often than not i catch my fair share!
Do you fish? or just talk about it?;)
M
Mitspa
Guest
You are not a lawyer! are you? Am i on trail?
now i must not only accept your understanding of scripture but only answer back to you the way you want?
Mat 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them
M
Mitspa
Guest
Mat 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
What we have in Christ is much greater than what JTB had!
now let me ask you? do you know what JESUS was saying? i do but you seem unable to grasp the clear point?
1Co 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
jasoncran
Member
lol, sir, you are a trip. man ya know i thought you could show me to one today who did do those things. if you notice reba denied neither wigglesworth or hagin, yet you argued with her.
now then prior to pauls death there was scoffers? there was false prophets. hmm he seemed to say after his death wolves would come and lead the flock astray. for the most part there werent any.sorry you argument is weak. if the ecf couldnt even pass the gospel facts of him who died for you as you put them its a miracle we even have a church. god keeps and always has a faithful remnant.
M
Mitspa
Guest
1Co 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. :biglol
1Co 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Eph 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
In the mind of The Father, we who have been born-again of The Word, have become heirs of all things!!
Even though we may not know it. As we grow in grace and knowledge we will come to know what we are in "truth" in Christ.
One can not grow in grace without receiving the "living Word" by faith.With the great and mighty Holy Spirit as the true teacher.
As one begins to believe the promises of God, they also begin to develop the "Divine Nature" of Christ!
2Pe 1:2
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. :biglol
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
In the mind of The Father, we who have been born-again of The Word, have become heirs of all things!!
Even though we may not know it. As we grow in grace and knowledge we will come to know what we are in "truth" in Christ.
One can not grow in grace without receiving the "living Word" by faith.With the great and mighty Holy Spirit as the true teacher.
As one begins to believe the promises of God, they also begin to develop the "Divine Nature" of Christ!
2Pe 1:2
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. :biglol
I guess since i am a WoF guy? you think i will tell you a "big" fish tale?
i just do a little lake fishin, i like to catch a few "large mouth" bass.
And guess what? i dont catch fish, every time! but i keep on fishin and more often than not i catch my fair share!
Do you fish? or just talk about it?;)
On your profile page i read you fish and something about a minister . Dad a AofG pastor loved to fish. My mind made a quick connect... love the
i like to catch a few "large mouth" bass.
very funny!Back to the reason for changing the topic/mood.... The questions i asked were, the same type questions i had to face and answer back in the 70s. The non answers were answer enough, i do not wish to push just for the sake of pushing....
I am sure there are other points in His Word we can/do agree on!
Sorry about the length of this post, as even I do not like long ones, but all needs to be posted. God bless.
Mitspa I am only posting this for you or anyone else who are caught up in the WoF teachings as a warning as I allowed myself to also be a follower of what I know now to be heretic teachings as they take scripture out of context to support their prosperity and health blab it and grab it doctrines they teach, which almost destroyed my faith in Christ because I wasn't receiving those things they said we were to be receiving in abundance. If their teachings were true then why are so many sitting in their pews who are crying out "yes Lord, yes Lord" believing with all their heart, but not seeing the fruit of those blab it and grab it futations. Don't say it's because they have no faith or weak faith as I who sat under those teachings for over forty years have great faith in Christ. It wasn't until I came out of those heretic teachings that I have now prospered in the truth of Gods word as I do not need to be rich, but only have enough for me and my own and enough to help others. My health does not dictate to me who I am in Christ and even though it limits my physical it will never limit my Spiritual. Search their doctrines and always do your homework before committing to something that looks good, but is nothing mroe then deceiving.
What Word Of Faith believe:
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(WoF believe they can become their own little gods owning the same power and authority as God. Sorry the only power and authority we have is only by the grace of God as he works His power and authority through us in the name of Jesus)
Creflo Dollar (WoF Pastor)
Dollar: "If horses get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Horses!"
Dollar: "If dogs get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Dogs!"
Dollar: "If cats get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Cats!"
Dollar: "So if the Godhead says 'Let us make man in our image', and everything produces after its own kind, then they produce what?"
Congregation: "Gods!"
Dollar: "Gods. Little "g" gods. You're not human. Only human part of you is this flesh you're wearing."
WoF doctrine is that Jesus died spiritually. It's a teaching that to atone for sins, Jesus had to die both physically and spiritually. As an outcome of his ‘dying spiritually’, the Word of Faith movement argues Jesus thus needed to be born again, as any other sinner, and that although Jesus himself was never a sinner, Jesus was forsaken by God just as if he had committed every sin in human history. E.W. Kenyon, a founder of the doctrine that later became known as Word of Faith, was the first to explicitly articulate the doctrine in a number of his works, including What Happened From The Cross To the Throne and Identification: A Romance In Redemption. This doctrine was later supposedly taken up by Hagin, Copeland and many of their followers. The doctrine asserts that Jesus’ bodily sacrifice was but the beginning of atonement, which continued with Jesus’ suffering in Hell. Copeland claimed that Jesus took on humanity’s "satanic nature" and was "born again" in Hell. Hagin's teaching was featured in his book The Name of Jesus, 1979 edition, yet in a 1991 letter to the Christian Research Institute, Hagin's son Kenneth Hagin Jr. denied this interpretation and claimed Hagin senior had never taught the notion of a born again Jesus or the adoption of Satan's nature. Wouldn"t believing this teaching compromises the teaching that Jesus' blood atoned for sin!
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
This is the scripture WoF prosperity teachers like to use for their blab it and grab it monetary wealth, and health doctrines and even teach that Jesus and his Disciples were rich and owned homes and businesses. Where does it say prosper means wealth in this verse? John says I wish above all things that thou may prosper and be in health, but never says all in Christ will.
Within Word of Faith teaching, a central element of receiving from God involves "confession". This doctrine is often referred to as "positive confession" or "faith confession" by practitioners. While similar, the teaching should not be confused with Norman Vincent Peale's positive thinking theology. Peale's teaching was marked by its focus on the individual, as evidenced by his oft-spoken statement, "Faith in God and believe in oneself". Word of Faith teachers, such as Kenneth E. Hagin and Charles Capps, have argued that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1), and that humans have been endowed with the ability (power) to speak things into existence. Thus, making a "positive confession" (by reciting a promise of scripture, for example), and believing that which God says, generates power which enables those things to come into fruition. This teaching is interpreted from Mark 11:22-23. Word of Faith preachers have likened faith to a "force". Likewise, according to Word of Faith teaching, "negative confession" can yield negative results, and hence believers should be conscious of their words. This is argued on the interpretation of Proverbs 18:21, "Life and death are in the power of the tongue, and they that love them will eat the fruit thereof", also Numbers 14:28, "...saith the Lord, as you have spoken in my ears, so will I do", among other scriptures.
Word of Faith's orthodoxy has been questioned and criticized by various ministers, authors, and bloggers. Despite criticism by several prominent theologians, authors, and online critics, the movement continues to air television programs and publish articles and books. Some derisively call the theology "name it, claim it" or "blab it and grab it." Furthermore, within the Christian sphere, the Word of Faith movement is the fastest growing branch of Pentecostal Christianity. Critics traces the movement's origins to the late 19th and early 20th centuries ( Phineus Quimby's New Thought Movement, Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science)
Mitspa I am only posting this for you or anyone else who are caught up in the WoF teachings as a warning as I allowed myself to also be a follower of what I know now to be heretic teachings as they take scripture out of context to support their prosperity and health blab it and grab it doctrines they teach, which almost destroyed my faith in Christ because I wasn't receiving those things they said we were to be receiving in abundance. If their teachings were true then why are so many sitting in their pews who are crying out "yes Lord, yes Lord" believing with all their heart, but not seeing the fruit of those blab it and grab it futations. Don't say it's because they have no faith or weak faith as I who sat under those teachings for over forty years have great faith in Christ. It wasn't until I came out of those heretic teachings that I have now prospered in the truth of Gods word as I do not need to be rich, but only have enough for me and my own and enough to help others. My health does not dictate to me who I am in Christ and even though it limits my physical it will never limit my Spiritual. Search their doctrines and always do your homework before committing to something that looks good, but is nothing mroe then deceiving.
What Word Of Faith believe:
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(WoF believe they can become their own little gods owning the same power and authority as God. Sorry the only power and authority we have is only by the grace of God as he works His power and authority through us in the name of Jesus)
Creflo Dollar (WoF Pastor)
Dollar: "If horses get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Horses!"
Dollar: "If dogs get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Dogs!"
Dollar: "If cats get together, they produce what?"
Congregation: "Cats!"
Dollar: "So if the Godhead says 'Let us make man in our image', and everything produces after its own kind, then they produce what?"
Congregation: "Gods!"
Dollar: "Gods. Little "g" gods. You're not human. Only human part of you is this flesh you're wearing."
WoF doctrine is that Jesus died spiritually. It's a teaching that to atone for sins, Jesus had to die both physically and spiritually. As an outcome of his ‘dying spiritually’, the Word of Faith movement argues Jesus thus needed to be born again, as any other sinner, and that although Jesus himself was never a sinner, Jesus was forsaken by God just as if he had committed every sin in human history. E.W. Kenyon, a founder of the doctrine that later became known as Word of Faith, was the first to explicitly articulate the doctrine in a number of his works, including What Happened From The Cross To the Throne and Identification: A Romance In Redemption. This doctrine was later supposedly taken up by Hagin, Copeland and many of their followers. The doctrine asserts that Jesus’ bodily sacrifice was but the beginning of atonement, which continued with Jesus’ suffering in Hell. Copeland claimed that Jesus took on humanity’s "satanic nature" and was "born again" in Hell. Hagin's teaching was featured in his book The Name of Jesus, 1979 edition, yet in a 1991 letter to the Christian Research Institute, Hagin's son Kenneth Hagin Jr. denied this interpretation and claimed Hagin senior had never taught the notion of a born again Jesus or the adoption of Satan's nature. Wouldn"t believing this teaching compromises the teaching that Jesus' blood atoned for sin!
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
This is the scripture WoF prosperity teachers like to use for their blab it and grab it monetary wealth, and health doctrines and even teach that Jesus and his Disciples were rich and owned homes and businesses. Where does it say prosper means wealth in this verse? John says I wish above all things that thou may prosper and be in health, but never says all in Christ will.
Within Word of Faith teaching, a central element of receiving from God involves "confession". This doctrine is often referred to as "positive confession" or "faith confession" by practitioners. While similar, the teaching should not be confused with Norman Vincent Peale's positive thinking theology. Peale's teaching was marked by its focus on the individual, as evidenced by his oft-spoken statement, "Faith in God and believe in oneself". Word of Faith teachers, such as Kenneth E. Hagin and Charles Capps, have argued that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1), and that humans have been endowed with the ability (power) to speak things into existence. Thus, making a "positive confession" (by reciting a promise of scripture, for example), and believing that which God says, generates power which enables those things to come into fruition. This teaching is interpreted from Mark 11:22-23. Word of Faith preachers have likened faith to a "force". Likewise, according to Word of Faith teaching, "negative confession" can yield negative results, and hence believers should be conscious of their words. This is argued on the interpretation of Proverbs 18:21, "Life and death are in the power of the tongue, and they that love them will eat the fruit thereof", also Numbers 14:28, "...saith the Lord, as you have spoken in my ears, so will I do", among other scriptures.
Word of Faith's orthodoxy has been questioned and criticized by various ministers, authors, and bloggers. Despite criticism by several prominent theologians, authors, and online critics, the movement continues to air television programs and publish articles and books. Some derisively call the theology "name it, claim it" or "blab it and grab it." Furthermore, within the Christian sphere, the Word of Faith movement is the fastest growing branch of Pentecostal Christianity. Critics traces the movement's origins to the late 19th and early 20th centuries ( Phineus Quimby's New Thought Movement, Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science)
M
Mitspa
Guest
Listen to dad! and of course your Abba!On your profile page i read you fish and something about a minister . Dad a AofG pastor loved to fish. My mind made a quick connect... love the
Back to the reason for changing the topic/mood.... The questions i asked were, the same type questions i had to face and answer back in the 70s. The non answers were answer enough, i do not wish to push just for the sake of pushing....
I am sure there are other points in His Word we can/do agree on!
M
Mitspa
Guest
Well i dont know how others have presented what some scriptures mean? but consider these! and give me your opinion and i will respond in a "very honest and thoughtful" way
2Co 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
1Jn 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Joh 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
i know for myself i would never think of myself as anything apart from being "in Him" but in Him "all things are possible for those who believe"!
M
Mitspa
Guest
Let me say, i would not be associated with some WoF "preachers" just as many Babtist, Methodist, Catholic, Calvinist,Church of God, AoG the list goes on and on!
For every true teachers i believe they are probably a false one in EVERY DENOM!:o
Now i gladly would associate my understanding of doctrine with many! and i bet most of us share common teachers in one way or another? I do not feel i need defend any other man! Judge me by the Word of God and find the fault in my doctrine, if you can? I promise if you can show me "IN THE SCRIPTURES" my error? i will repent!
Eventide
Member
I AM thy exceeding and great REWARD !
I'll never forget an elder brother speaking about our inheritance in Christ Jesus.. and this reminded me of just that..
You could be the poorest, weakest, most helpless person in the world.. and yet in Christ Jesus there is literally no end to His wealth, and our inheritance in Him is beyond measure.. it will take the ages to come for us to realize and be blessed with the unsearchable riches in Christ.
There's not a person on this earth more wealthy than you are in Christ Jesus.. and although the road home is rough for many of us.. He will carry you through.
You're in God's Good hands..
The Father loveth the Son and hath given all things into His hand
I'll never forget an elder brother speaking about our inheritance in Christ Jesus.. and this reminded me of just that..
You could be the poorest, weakest, most helpless person in the world.. and yet in Christ Jesus there is literally no end to His wealth, and our inheritance in Him is beyond measure.. it will take the ages to come for us to realize and be blessed with the unsearchable riches in Christ.
There's not a person on this earth more wealthy than you are in Christ Jesus.. and although the road home is rough for many of us.. He will carry you through.
You're in God's Good hands..
The Father loveth the Son and hath given all things into His hand
M
Mitspa
Guest
2Co 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 3:26
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Just and the justifier (
δίκαιον καὶ δικαιοῦντα)
The sense and yet, often imported into
καὶ and, is purely gratuitous. It is introduced on dogmatic grounds, and implies a problem in the divine nature itself, namely, to bring God's essential justice into consistency with His merciful restoration of the sinner. On the contrary, the words are coordinate - righteous and making believers righteous. It is of the essence of divine righteousness to bring men into perfect sympathy with itself. Paul's object is not to show how God is vindicated, but how man is made right with the righteous God. Theology may safely leave God to take care for the adjustment of the different sides of His own character. The very highest and strongest reason why God should make men right lies in His own righteousness. Because He is righteous He must hate sin, and the antagonism can be removed only by removing the sin, not by compounding it.
This commentary is from (Vincents word study) all verses in (KJV)
Now the key to enter into the power we have in Christ is that He has MADE us righteous! That God, in His Righteous judgment, has made us The righteousness of God in Christ Jesus!:yesOne must accept ,that it is not a matter of mans judgment!but receive it as a gift! because God said that it is a "right act"to receive His Righteousness! No man has ever done a more righteous act, than to receive Gods Righteousness!
M
Mitspa
Guest
Pro 28:1
The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.
The only power satan has over any believer is "sin" and the fear of our own weakness?
The gospel, declares "let the weak say I am strong"
For God has chosen the weak to overthrow the strong!
And faith calleth those things that be not as though they were.
What would happen if "believers" walked in the authority of Gods righteousness!
2Co 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 4:3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.
The only power satan has over any believer is "sin" and the fear of our own weakness?
The gospel, declares "let the weak say I am strong"
For God has chosen the weak to overthrow the strong!
And faith calleth those things that be not as though they were.
What would happen if "believers" walked in the authority of Gods righteousness!
2Co 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 4:3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Mat 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
so if we are "dead" as the scriptures declare? Where are we?
And where is The Lord?
Can we follow Him to where He is?
Or are the scriptures true? we are already there?
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Is it possible that the reason so many have so little victory over this world? Is because they do not believe they are already in the place of complete victory!
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
so if we are "dead" as the scriptures declare? Where are we?
And where is The Lord?
Can we follow Him to where He is?
Or are the scriptures true? we are already there?
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Is it possible that the reason so many have so little victory over this world? Is because they do not believe they are already in the place of complete victory!