The Wrath of God

[Clover me]

The special gift we are getting now is the opportunity to become part of the family of Christ and be part of the resurrection of the righteous and perhaps help as the apostles did, but this time during the 1000's over the whole world with all the generations that every lived.
That is exciting!

 

[digging]

Yes I agree it's beautiful when you see it. Like a gem or a pearl.....

Digging

 

[agua.]

Thank-you for the questions and thank-you for taking the time to go back and read some of what I had posted, I appreciate that.

Now for question 1 I've tried my best to get a clear understanding of the way the resurrection will work based on various scriptures like these ones.

Paul clearly believed there would be a resurrection of BOTH the righteous and unrighteous.

However I feel it is very important for us to remember we all are born unrighteous, so within the group of 'unrighteous' there could be a huge range of different natures of people who might be very 'sheep like' and quickly respond to the invitation to follow the great shepherd if they had been given the opportunity but never had before they died.

Acts 24:15 CEB
The hope I have in God I also share with my accusers, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

John 5:29 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practiced the evil things to a rising again of judgment.

As I've said before we forget and think judgment only turns out bad, but that is not always so people can also be 'judged' good .

Yes there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous I agree. Do you have any scripture which may indicate that judgement may end in salvation ?

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.


Hebrews 11:35 NAS
Women received back their dead by resurrection ; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection ;

Notice in the above vs it's showing two different kinds of resurrection but both for righteous people? Why is that? I believe this vs is showing that the resurrections that happen during the time of Christ were not to immortality but just back to a healthy state which one could die from again, but the time was coming of a better resurrection to immortality. Thus if this kind of resurrection happened back then why couldn't it also happen for 'unrighteous' resurrected ones during the 1000's years?

Yes any resurrection prior to Jesus' return isn't the final resurrection to life or destruction. I'm not sure how you can use the rare resurrection of the righteous pre- Parousia to justify the resurrection of all the unrighteous during the Millennium. It's quite a leap Digging.

Revelation 20:6 NAS
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection ; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Who are they to be Priests for????? Reign over who and why?

There will be many survivors of the tribulation period and they will be the subjects.

I'm not sure about your last question? Are you asking about' just' in our day or in the future after the resurrections?

I'm wondering what you consider an appropriate amount of revelation of God would be in this age to make it "just" in your eyes for the unrighteous to be condemned. Remember Jesus as already had an Earthly ministry.

Here is one of my present views

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats ; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

I believe this account is speaking of the work during the 1000's years of the large group of resurrected 'unrighteous'. because of this other vs

40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Who are these 'brothers'? I believe this is a parable about the 1000's years and this group is also the "bride' or the righteous priests.

The separation of sheep and goats comes at the beginning of the MR it seems and can be also found in Joel 3 which describes the distinction of gentiles ( nations ) depending on how they treated the Jews during the tribulation period imo. The Brothers of Jesus here are the Jews I think.

17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life

Again I believe this is what will happen during the 1000's years.

These people came out of the tribulation period so I'm not sure how they could be resurrected after this time can you explain ? Are you suggesting they were resurrected during the tribulation ?

Rev 7:14-15 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (15) Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The special gift we are getting now is the opportunity to become part of the family of Christ and be part of the resurrection of the righteous and perhaps help as the apostles did, but this time during the 1000's over the whole world with all the generations that every lived.


Digging

This is still a little confusing Digging. Are you suggesting every person who has ever lived will be resurrected at the beginning of the MR ?

 

[agua.]

Oh Digging I wonder if you see any inherent danger in the belief you're presenting ?

 

[Deborah13]

digging
Hey

Don't know why I'm giving this to you.
I believe this maybe where we are right now and have been for the last 2,000 yrs. or so. And the last verses still in the future.

Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

May God Bless you,
Deb

 

[digging]

Well at least I got you to consider things from a different perspective Agua! I agree that the way I've explained how I see God's plan working out might not be very common.

You have asked me a lot more questions which later I might have time to respond to, but for now I just like to say I see things happening in an orderly way, since God is one of order. So it would seem to me the resurrection would also be one of order and I don't think having billions of people resurrected all at once at the beginning of the MR as orderly. However I can imaging generation upon generation slowly being resurrected and out of each one faithful ones coming in and the rest passing away and finding their end in the second death.

Even when Jesus was here he only reached a small percentage of the human population.

Lastly remember to be 'unrighteous' does not have to mean a totally wicked heart. All of us were unrighteous before we found our faith. To be unrighteous is simply to still be under the curse inherited from Adam. To be righteous is to be redeemed through faith.

I find your last question most interesting......no I do not see any danger in trying to understand God's plan for restoration of humanity.

Jackie

 

[turnorburn]

II. A Solemn Warning

In view of this terrific fact, "Because there is wrath, beware lest He take thee away with His stroke."

Sinners are even now threatened with God's wrath, yea, they are by nature "children of wrath." It is true that God's wrath now slumbereth for a while, because this is the day of salvation. It is true that the time for the full and final and open manifestation of it has not yet arrived. It is true that sinners often defy God now with apparent impugnity, and because of this the wicked spread themselves like green bay trees. "Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of Thy ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve Him, and what profit should we have if we pray unto Him?" (Job. 21:14, 15). Let all such heed the Divine warning, "Because there is wrath, BEWARE lest He take thee away with His stroke." Sinner, be not deceived, God is not mocked. "O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end! For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges. For their vine is of the vine of Sodom and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter. Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. Is not this laid up in store with Me, and sealed up among My treasures? To Me belongeth vengeance and recompense; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste" (Deut. 32:29, 31-35). The sinner is treading a path more slippery than ice, and unless he forsake it, in due time his foot shall slide. The bow of God's wrath is already bent: the arrow of His vengeance is even now fitted to the string, and nothing but His infinite forebearance stays its release. My reader, the only reason why you have not already been cast into Hell fire is because it has been the good pleasure of the Most High to stay your doom. Flee then from the wrath to come while there is yet time.

"And thinketh thou this, O man that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?" (Rom. 2:3). Did Adam escape the judgment of God? Did Cain, did Pharaoh, did Achan, did Haman? The only reason God has not "taken thee away with His stroke" before this is because He endures with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

The time of the sinner's opportunity for fleeing from God's wrath is exceedingly brief and limited. The sad and tragic thing is that so few realize it. The sinner sees little cause for alarm and fails to apprehend his imperative need of promptly accepting Christ as his Saviour. He imagines himself secure. He goes on in his sin, and because judgment against an evil work is not executed speedily he increases in his boldness against God. But God's ways are different to ours. There is no need for God to be in a hurry - all eternity is at His disposal. When one man robs another, instantly the cry is raised, "Stop thief!" lest he should soon be out of reach. When a murder is committed the hounds of the law at once seek to track down the guilty One. A reward is offered lest he should succeed in escaping justice. But it is different with God. He is in no haste to execute judgment because He knows the sinner, cannot escape Him. It is impossible to flee out of His dominions! In due time every transgression and disobedience shall receive "a just recompense of reward."

"Because there is wrath, beware lest He take thee away with His stroke." The immediate reference is to death - the removal of the sinner from this earth to suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. Scripture furnishes many solemn examples of God's stroke "suddenly cutting off sinners out of the land of the living." "And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censor and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord" (Lev. 10:1, 2). Again, "Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand. In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaster of the wall of the King's palace. And this is the writing that was written, Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting In that night was Belshazzar the King of the Chaldeans slain" (Dan. 5). Unsaved reader, you may be enjoying the health and strength of youth, yet, thou knowest not how soon the dread summons shall come, "This night shall thy soul be required of thee." Turning now to the last clause of our text, we have mention of:

III. An Utter Impossibility

"Because there is wrath, beware lest He take thee away with His stroke, then a great ransom cannot deliver thee."

Every member of Adam's race richly merits God's Wrath. Our sins which have mounted up to heaven; our profitless lives, spent in selfish gratification with no regard for God's glory; our indifference and carelessness respecting our soul's future welfare; our repeated refusals to respond to the invitations of God's grace, all cry aloud for judgment to descend upon us. But God's Mercy has provided a "Ransom" - a "covering" for sin - Christ! Our text speaks of this ransom as "great" - great in its value, great in its scope, great in its effectiveness, great because it delivers from so great a death and secures so great salvation. But great as this "ransom" is, it avails nothing for those who ignore and reject it.

"Beware lest He take thee away with His stroke, then a great ransom cannot deliver thee." If this ransom be despised then there is no possible escape for the sinner. If Christ be rejected there remains nought but wrath. How this text shatters the "Larger Hope"! How it repudiates any possibility of a "Second Chance" in the next world! How effectually it closes the door of hope against all who die in their sins! Let the stroke of God remove such from this world and "then a great ransom cannot deliver" them. There are other Scriptures equally explicit. "He that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed and that without remedy" (Prov. 29:1). For the sinner there is no remedy, no deliverance, no hope whatever beyond the grave.

"Then a great ransom cannot deliver thee." Why? Because it is appointed unto man once to die, and after that - not a second chance, not a further probation - but the judgment. Why? Because at death the sinner goes immediately to Hell (Luke 16 :22, 23) and there there is no preaching of the Gospel and no Holy Spirit to quicken into newness of life. Why? Because there awaits all such nothing but "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29) and the judgment of the Great White Throne. "Then a great ransom cannot deliver thee." Why? Because repentance then will be too late. "Therefore will I also deal in fury: Mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in Mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them! (Ezek. 8:18). Then a great ransom cannot deliver thee. Why? Because, Whosoever's name was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the Lake of Fire - and a "lake" has no outlet!

Here then is a solemn warning against indifference, "Because there is wrath." Here is a solemn warning against procrastination, "Beware lest He take thee away with His stroke." Here is a solemn warning against hoping in another chance after death. "Then a great ransom cannot deliver thee." Here is a powerful plea for accepting Christ NOW. "How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation?" We shall not! There will be no escape! Then "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found: Call ye upon Him while He is near."

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

http://biblebelievers.com/misc_periodical_articles/our-hope_001.html

tob

 

[WIP]

I find your last question most interesting......no I do not see any danger in trying to understand God's plan for restoration of humanity.

Somehow this does not seem to answer the question asked.

 

[digging]

digging
Hey

Don't know why I'm giving this to you.
I believe this maybe where we are right now and have been for the last 2,000 yrs. or so. And the last verses still in the future.

Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

May God Bless you,
Deb

Thank-you for sharing this Deb,

Now since we all see things working out a little different sometimes, what I have wondered about this vs is if it is referring to the activities happening during the 1000's years. You see personally I feel all the righteous who have every lived starting from Abel down to the day of Christs return are part of one single group. I believe they all will be resurrected as the first fruits/bride/righteous. That they are what makes up the city that comes down out of heaven when the resurrection of the righteous happens. Thus I see all these vs's referring to all these 'unrighteous ones' that will be resurrected and if they don't come and worship they will stay outside the blessing of God and be lost to the second death.

Digging

 

[digging]

Yes there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous I agree. Do you have any scripture which may indicate that judgement may end in salvation ?



Yes any resurrection prior to Jesus' return isn't the final resurrection to life or destruction. I'm not sure how you can use the rare resurrection of the righteous pre- Parousia to justify the resurrection of all the unrighteous during the Millennium. It's quite a leap Digging.



There will be many survivors of the tribulation period and they will be the subjects.



I'm wondering what you consider an appropriate amount of revelation of God would be in this age to make it "just" in your eyes for the unrighteous to be condemned. Remember Jesus as already had an Earthly ministry.


The separation of sheep and goats comes at the beginning of the MR it seems and can be also found in Joel 3 which describes the distinction of gentiles ( nations ) depending on how they treated the Jews during the tribulation period imo. The Brothers of Jesus here are the Jews I think.



These people came out of the tribulation period so I'm not sure how they could be resurrected after this time can you explain ? Are you suggesting they were resurrected during the tribulation ?

Rev 7:14-15 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (15) Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.



This is still a little confusing Digging. Are you suggesting every person who has ever lived will be resurrected at the beginning of the MR ?

Agua,

I understand that some of what I've said seems new in away I guess. Or what is possible is we have been taught something old that upon close, careful, reasonable consideration shows to be lacking in scope to really address the reality of reaching billions of people with the personal message from YHWH through Christ.
Just for consideration as an example for consideration. Let's look again at this point you made.

"These people came out of the tribulation period so I'm not sure how they could be resurrected after this time can you explain ? Are you suggesting they were resurrected during the tribulation?"

What exactly are you saying regarding these people? When are they alive? Do they live through the arrival time of Christ? Why do they get the chance to be guided personally by Christ after his return? Is it because they were lucky enough to be born just at the right time in history, but everyone else well tough luck? When do they wash their robes? Before or after the return of Christ? Why do they get to be subjects but the others not? What I am saying gives everyone a 100% equal and fair invitation no matter when in time they were born or where on earth they were born.

I ask you to just consider what really is the purpose of the 1000's years........

Digging

 

[Deborah13]

Thank-you for sharing this Deb,

Now since we all see things working out a little different sometimes, what I have wondered about this vs is if it is referring to the activities happening during the 1000's years. You see personally I feel all the righteous who have every lived starting from Abel down to the day of Christs return are part of one single group. I believe they all will be resurrected as the first fruits/bride/righteous. That they are what makes up the city that comes down out of heaven when the resurrection of the righteous happens. Thus I see all these vs's referring to all these 'unrighteous ones' that will be resurrected and if they don't come and worship they will stay outside the blessing of God and be lost to the second death.

Digging

That is very different from what I see but not far off from what some others see. You see all people raised, they see just the Hebrew people raised. The dry bones in the valley.

 

[jasonc]

many a theoligians have struggled with that verse on the dry bones.

I have one issue that some seem to overlook. what is the function of a saved levite?

 

[digging]

That is very different from what I see but not far off from what some others see. You see all people raised, they see just the Hebrew people raised. The dry bones in the valley.

Yes I see all the righteous as one flock. All the faithful from before Israel, then all the faithful ones from Israel, then all the faithful since Christianity. I see it this way mainly because New Jerusalem has both the names of the Apostles and the names of the 12 sons of Israel.

Digging

 

[digging]

many a theoligians have struggled with that verse on the dry bones.

I have one issue that some seem to overlook. what is the function of a saved levite?

What is there to struggle with? Plain and simple there will be a real and true resurrection of the righteous whom are this truly restored priest nation. Seems plain to me that there are lots of people whom are going to need them during the millennium.


Digging

 

[digging]

Somehow this does not seem to answer the question asked.

"Oh Digging I wonder if you see any inherent danger in the belief you're presenting?"

Well to be as truthful as I can be, perhaps one of the 'dangers' if someone begins to see things this way they might not fit in so well in some Christian groups. But other than that please I'm totally not getting the question?

Or are you implying that salvation is dependent on 'proper' doctrinal understanding?

Digging

 

[Deborah13]

Yes I see all the righteous as one flock. All the faithful from before Israel, then all the faithful ones from Israel, then all the faithful since Christianity. I see it this way mainly because New Jerusalem has both the names of the Apostles and the names of the 12 sons of Israel.

Digging

I see all the righteous faithful the same way you do. Most here do, I think. We are all one Body in Christ.

But I don't see all people getting a second chance in a 1,000 yrs age.

 

[agua.]

Agua,

I understand that some of what I've said seems new in away I guess. Or what is possible is we have been taught something old that upon close, careful, reasonable consideration shows to be lacking in scope to really address the reality of reaching billions of people with the personal message from YHWH through Christ.

I've heard a very similar premise to yours before Digging but it had the added clause that everyone would be washed

Just for consideration as an example for consideration. Let's look again at this point you made.

"These people came out of the tribulation period so I'm not sure how they could be resurrected after this time can you explain ? Are you suggesting they were resurrected during the tribulation?"

What exactly are you saying regarding these people? When are they alive? Do they live through the arrival time of Christ? Why do they get the chance to be guided personally by Christ after his return? Is it because they were lucky enough to be born just at the right time in history, but everyone else well tough luck? When do they wash their robes? Before or after the return of Christ? Why do they get to be subjects but the others not? What I am saying gives everyone a 100% equal and fair invitation no matter when in time they were born or where on earth they were born.

I'm simply pointing out Digging this scripture that you use to suggest that people are resurrected into the MR and will "have washed their robes" is speaking about people who came out of the tribulation period. I know you don't like to accept chronology in Revelation but you can't dismiss a specific designation simply because it doesn't suit. What does "These are they which came out of great tribulation" mean to you ?

Rev 7:14-15 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (15) Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

There are several interpretations of who these people are but it doesn't fit that they include the resurrected unrighteous because they are clearly Saints. They washed their robes in the same manner you and I have, before Jesus returns and they are the people who were able to "stand" after the tribulation. This implies they were believers. One interpretation of this passage suggests these people were martyred during the trib and we can see this is likely considering Rev 6:9-11.

Rev 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: (10) And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (11) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I haven't suggested these people from Rev 6&7will be alive on Earth during the MR this isn't clear to me. I'm still a little confused as to what you think an adequate amount of revelation of God will be considering the ongoing witness of Creation, the many Theophanies, the Earthly ministry of Jesus, and the ongoing conviction of the World by the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting Judas didn't have adequate revelation ? This is an extreme example but you see the point.

I ask you to just consider what really is the purpose of the 1000's years........

Digging

The MR is very much concerning Israel imo.

"Oh Digging I wonder if you see any inherent danger in the belief you're presenting?"

Well to be as truthful as I can be, perhaps one of the 'dangers' if someone begins to see things this way they might not fit in so well in some Christian groups. But other than that please I'm totally not getting the question?

Or are you implying that salvation is dependent on 'proper' doctrinal understanding?

Digging

I'm not concerned about unpopular beliefs I have several myself and if we base salvation on proper doctrinal belief it sorta removes the grace element eh. Have you considered the implications of witnessing to a non-believer that they will have the opportunity to meet Jesus in the MR and decide their destiny if you're wrong ? Frankly I don't think any of us has the ability to disrupt Yahweh's plans but there does appear to be harsh penalty for misleading teaching. You may well be leading people into a false sense of security.

 

[agua.]

many a theoligians have struggled with that verse on the dry bones.

I have one issue that some seem to overlook. what is the function of a saved levite?

It's definitely about the "resuscitation" of Israel and it seems the Temple sacrifices will be re-instituted during the MR ( which implies unsaved Jews ? ) so maybe the Levite will have usual Temple duty.

 

[WIP]

"Oh Digging I wonder if you see any inherent danger in the belief you're presenting?"

Well to be as truthful as I can be, perhaps one of the 'dangers' if someone begins to see things this way they might not fit in so well in some Christian groups. But other than that please I'm totally not getting the question?

Or are you implying that salvation is dependent on 'proper' doctrinal understanding?

Digging

I think agua has been doing a great job of explaining what I have been struggling to put to words.

 

[brother Paul]

Here is my understanding...the cross was not about wrath...

Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…

Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.

4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.

1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us (while we were still in out sin He loved us, and was not filled with wrath toward us).

Yes it is in his love and in his pity that he redeemed us. Did we deserve this love? No! We were children of orge (disobedience)…we were indignant, obstinate, of natural disposition focused on the whims of the flesh and the will of our own minds. So though He died on behalf of all mankind (making the ransom available for all) not all individuals will be saved because most will reject His gift of grace given to restore, redeem, reconcile (the Lord Jesus who loved us so much He willfully laid down His life).

Yes beloved we have been redeemed (ransomed) because of the riches of His grace by such a steadfast love (God is love) not because His need for legal justice that was satisfied. Death never “satisfies” God. It NEVER makes Him happy. God wanted Adam and Eve to avoid this consequence just as your parent who tells you do not run out into the busy traffic does not want you to get hit by a car…it was not a decree or threat of punishment for wrong doing, it was a warning from love of the inevitable consequence. Christ was a propitiation (to propitiate – to win or regain favor by doing or offering something pleasing). He was the offering (of Himself, willfully) of that which disturbed our peace (death). His blood covers our sin and transgression as an acceptable exchange. He redeemed us (ga’al - to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer not a substitute victim, to avenge and ransomus. He was not was “victimized” in place of us. Thus God in His forebearance “passed over” our sins (Romans 3:25-26) not satisfied His need to punish.

You see beloved, there is a problem which many in the west are not aware of. In the Bible, in the Hebrew as well as the Greek, to be just or justified (as it is translated into English) is not about getting justice in the sense of vengeance, it is about being “made right” (dikaioo). This is something God does because He loves us. When the scripture says “the just shall love by faith” (a principle which Paul leans on heavily) the word “just” here means the “righteous”…to be justified means to be righteousized. The one who is righteous before God is one who lives by faith (thus having been declared righteous by God, like Abraham). Such a one is given God’s Righteousness in exchange for their faith. God counts their faith as Righteousness.

God did not hate us and want to smite us in His wrath, He loved us even in our sin (it grieved Him) and He Himself became man so we could become the sons of God (to restore the fellowship). Think of the parable of the prodigal? What does this tell us of the father? Was he waiting to beat the son, punish the son? No He was waiting for him to come to a right mind. He was already ready and willing to embrace him and reconcile with him and restore him to his rightful place. This is an analogy of the Father in relation to sinners…we grieve Him not enrage Him.

If Christ suffered a “full outpouring of the wrath” as John MacAuthur and others teach, and IF it was His wrath that was eternally satisfied, then there is no more wrath (it has been satisfied in full otherwise the cross was insufficient)…but I beg to differ as we know there is yet a wrath at the outpouring of the vials and again at the judgment seat. Think on these things…

In His love

Paul