Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

There's definitely must be Jesus' assembly somewhere here in this realm of lie and darkness and I'm sure I'm going to meet them sometime.
Brother Dmytro if you are suggesting that we who have conversed with you are not part of Jesus's Assembly I find that truly sad :crying .
 
If you're not willing to explain your faith in your own words to make it known then ok. I also believe Jesus and his Father are one.
We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Thks
 
If Jesus is divine, if he is deity and has the same nature as the Father, then it necessarily follows (the logical conclusion) that Jesus is also truly God. It is absolutely impossible that Jesus is "equally divine" and not also truly God. Again, only God has the nature of God, as that is precisely what makes him God in the first place. Any other that has the nature of God cannot be another being, since there is only one being that is God; Yahweh himself says so, and Jesus agrees.

I know you like to think what you're saying is based on revelation, and it is to a point, but the problem is that you end up with three gods, which is the heresy of tritheism. You're stuck between Trinitarianism and the polytheism of Mormonism. That is why the doctrine of the Trinity is the best explanation of the full revelation of God--three distinct, divine, coequal Persons within the one Being that is God (Yahweh).
These statements here highlight the different perspective of Trinitarianism versus practically every other theology about who God is. Most believe that God isn't solely a nature that if one possesses they, too, become incorporated into a grand singular being known as YHWH, but rather that YHWH is Himself a singular person known as the Father in your Trinity. There is a direct 1:1 correlation between YHWH and the Father in the Bible, yet one doesn't exist for Jesus.

Exodus 6
2God also told Moses, “I am the LORD. 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by My name the LORD I did not make Myself known to them.

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD, You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.
 
These statements here highlight the different perspective of Trinitarianism versus practically every other theology about who God is. Most believe that God isn't solely a nature that if one possesses they, too, become incorporated into a grand singular being known as YHWH, but rather that YHWH is Himself a singular person known as the Father in your Trinity. There is a direct 1:1 correlation between YHWH and the Father in the Bible, yet one doesn't exist for Jesus.

Exodus 6
2God also told Moses, “I am the LORD. 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by My name the LORD I did not make Myself known to them.

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD, You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.
Does a son have the same nature as his father?
And the same being? (Human) yet two distinct persons
 
These statements here highlight the different perspective of Trinitarianism versus practically every other theology about who God is.
That goes without saying, doesn't it?

Most believe that God isn't solely a nature that if one possesses they, too, become incorporated into a grand singular being known as YHWH,
Not even Trinitarians believe that. No one can come to possess the nature of God and "become incorporated into a grand singular being known as YHWH." One is either God to begin with or one is not and never will be.

Humans have a human nature, that which makes us human and not something else. Only God can have the nature that is God, the substance or essence that is God, and the Son is shown to have such. Only God can do the things God does, such as have absolute existence and create everything that came into existence, yet the preincarnate Son did those very things.

Again, every son that has ever been in existence is of the same nature as his father. And we are the analogues of God, not the other way around. That means God's use of "Father" and "Son" tells us something about himself, which would be meaningless if the Son didn't have the same nature as the Father.

but rather that YHWH is Himself a singular person known as the Father in your Trinity.
For which there is not one clear or direct verse that states God is only one person.

There is a direct 1:1 correlation between YHWH and the Father in the Bible, yet one doesn't exist for Jesus.

Exodus 6
2God also told Moses, “I am the LORD. 3I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by My name the LORD I did not make Myself known to them.
Again, as I have pointed out repeatedly, this is fallaciously begging the question. You are beginning with the premise that God is unitarian and then coming to that conclusion. There is nothing in this verse to say whether or not God is unitarian or triune.

Isaiah 64
8But now, O LORD, You are our Father;
we are the clay, and You are the potter;
we are all the work of Your hand.
There is nothing in that verse to say that only the Father--as mentioned in the NT as distinct from the Son and Holy Spirit--is Yahweh. You are conflating different uses of "Father."
 
So, starting from the beginning, where is just one verse that clearly states that only the Father is Yahweh? I asked this several times and you have not provided any verse.
~99% of 'God' usage in NT = the Father. The Father = only true God. The Father = Yahweh. This is clear until the opposite is proven.
That there are three divine persons has never been the issue.
Person = being. Do you agree with this?
Again, this has never been the issue; Trinitarianism fully supports that.
'Persons' you keep talking about are not persons so trinitarianism is just a more elaborated variation of modalism rejecting the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit as persons/ beings. God himself through Jesus revealed and proved to those who are willing to accept that Jesus came from God and is equal to God and will come back from God to establish God's kingdom and will reign together with God eternally.
Again, I would like to see just one verse that clearly states only the Father is Yahweh.
According to what we see in NT the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are separate persons/beings so your demand doesn't make sense for me. Jesus is 'Jesus', the Father is 'Yahweh', the Holy Spirit is 'the Holy Spirit'. Please quote 'trinity' or clear teaching about it.
A verse that can only be understood in the light of the Trinity.
Like in Greek there is a definite article in English but trinitarian 'translators' ignored it while together with 'God'. What 'light' are you talking about, you fabricate the scriptures.
It's about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
This doesn't make sense grammatically. What are you trying to say?
I'm trying to say that this topic was raised to share knowledge about God with those who are seeking.
How do you know that Yahweh revealed that,
By simply believing what the Gospel of John says.
especially since Yahweh is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, according to the Bible, which is God's revelation?
Please provide a corresponding verse.
Again, I don't know what you are trying to say.
I would like to join Jesus' assembly but see none. Those who are blind, lie, deceive and fabricate the scriptures cannot be called Christians or have the Holy Spirit.
The insurmountable problem for your position is still this:

You stated that "The Father is the ONLY. TRUE. GOD." and "The Father and Jesus are equally divine." You also said that "the scriptures clearly depicts them three as persons and separate beings," referring, of course, to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus is divine, if he is deity and has the same nature as the Father, then it necessarily follows (the logical conclusion) that Jesus is also truly God.
It is absolutely impossible that Jesus is "equally divine" and not also truly God. Again, only God has the nature of God, as that is precisely what makes him God in the first place. Any other that has the nature of God cannot be another being, since there is only one being that is God; Yahweh himself says so, and Jesus agrees.

I know you like to think what you're saying is based on revelation, and it is to a point, but the problem is that you end up with three gods, which is the heresy of tritheism. You're stuck between Trinitarianism and the polytheism of Mormonism. That is why the doctrine of the Trinity is the best explanation of the full revelation of God--three distinct, divine, coequal Persons within the one Being that is God (Yahweh).
You are stuck with that so called monotheism like it's something inherently good but in my opinion is simply unbelief and inability to comprehend what God have revealed. Jews were monotheistic, they rejected and killed Jesus and will accept the Antichrist. Muslims are monotheistic, they reject Jesus and their god is false. Those who call themselves Christians are monotheistic and they state there is no the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit at all and believe some kind of modalism, rejecting them three, covering that with their ambiguous terminology and worshiping some other god in reality. Polytheism is bad because its gods are myth or even demons. But I, unlike you all, believe in truly existing ones and got no problem with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as three divine beings because they revealed themself to those who are able to receive.
 
Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
 
Brother Dmytro if you are suggesting that we who have conversed with you are not part of Jesus's Assembly I find that truly sad :crying .
That's sad to me also. This wasn't to offend you all. I want so much to be a part of the true Jesus' assembly but there is so many not scripturally supported teachings among those who call themselves Christians, at least where I am. Peace.
 
Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
Apostles creed the earlier one is totally different. And we're supposed to believe basing on the scriptures not creeds.
 
Dogma or divine faith revealed by Christ!

12. There is only One God.
*Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

13. The One God is, in the ontological sense, The True God.
14. God possesses an infinite power of cognition.
15. God is absolute Veracity.
16. God is absolutely faithful.
17. God is absolute ontological Goodness in Himself and in relation to others.
18. God is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness.
19. God is absolute Benignity.
20. God is absolutely immutable.

21. God is eternal.
*Psalm 90: 2 …even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
*Deut. 33:27 the eternal God is thy refuge…

30. God is almighty.
31. God is the Lord of the heavens and of the earth.
32. God is infinitely just.
33. God is infinitely merciful.


34. In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three
Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.
35. In God there are two Internal Divine Processions.

36. The Divine Persons, not the Divine Nature, are the subject of the Internal Divine processions (in the active and in the passive sense).
37. The Second Divine Person proceeds from the First Divine Person by Generation, and therefore is related to Him as Son to a Father.
38. The Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and from the Son as from a Single Principle through a Single Spiration.
39. The Holy Ghost does not proceed through generation but through spiration.
40. The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.
41. The Three Divine Persons are in One Another.

42. All the ad extra Activities of God are common to all Three Persons.
*Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

43. All that exists outside God was, in its whole substance, produced out of nothing by God.
44. God was moved by His Goodness to create the world.
45. The world was created for the Glorification of God.
46. The Three Divine Persons are one single, common Principle of the Creation.
47. God created the world free from exterior compulsion and inner necessity.
48. God has created a good world.
49. The world had a beginning in time.
50. God alone created the World.
51. God keeps all created things in existence.

Y
 
We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant dogma: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!
 
That goes without saying, doesn't it?


Not even Trinitarians believe that. No one can come to possess the nature of God and "become incorporated into a grand singular being known as YHWH." One is either God to begin with or one is not and never will be.

Humans have a human nature, that which makes us human and not something else. Only God can have the nature that is God, the substance or essence that is God, and the Son is shown to have such. Only God can do the things God does, such as have absolute existence and create everything that came into existence, yet the preincarnate Son did those very things.

Again, every son that has ever been in existence is of the same nature as his father. And we are the analogues of God, not the other way around. That means God's use of "Father" and "Son" tells us something about himself, which would be meaningless if the Son didn't have the same nature as the Father.


For which there is not one clear or direct verse that states God is only one person.


Again, as I have pointed out repeatedly, this is fallaciously begging the question. You are beginning with the premise that God is unitarian and then coming to that conclusion. There is nothing in this verse to say whether or not God is unitarian or triune.
But this applies to you also don't you see it? You began with the premise that there is only one divine being and now are trying to tailor scriptures to support this, which ends up in rejecting the three and inventing a new god. In NT three divine beings: God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit are clearly and indisputably manifested to us. No trinity no one apart from them. I interpret OT basing on superior revelation given in NT and thus basing on Jesus' words, the usage of 'God' in NT, etc. am stating the Father to be Yahweh of OT. Look from this angle and you'll see it's not against OT but adds to it and enhances it. Trinity, on the other hand, is not a being, but rather a human-made concept or doctrine you need to reconcile NT with OT because of your premise. You've invented god for theological reason look how crazy it is.
There is nothing in that verse to say that only the Father--as mentioned in the NT as distinct from the Son and Holy Spirit--is Yahweh. You are conflating different uses of "Father."
 
We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant dogma: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!
Any intelligent person can read the Scripture and learn the gospel. He can also believe it if he so chooses.
He can also act in faith in it.

If he does that, he will be saved.
 
Any intelligent person can read the Scripture and learn the gospel. He can also believe it if he so chooses.
He can also act in faith in it.

If he does that, he will be saved.
That’s a great definition of spiritual anarchy!

Jesus Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19 and commanded the apostolic church to teach us and that implies our union with His church and our obedience to His lawful ministers!

1 pet 2:1
Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Thanks
 
That’s a great definition of spiritual anarchy!

Jesus Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19 and commanded the apostolic church to teach us and that implies our union with His church and our obedience to His lawful ministers!

1 pet 2:1
Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Thanks
There are no more Apostles because a requirement for an Apostle was to be witness of the resurrection of Jesus.
 
Christian’s fall under the “appeal to authority” fallacy.
I could claim that Jesus is the only head of his own church and has all authority over it.
This is an appeal to authority, and is a fallacy unless it can be proven.
I, nor anyone else can prove it.

To accept and believe the Scripture as true is a personal choice .

You can condemn me all you want if that’s what I decide, but you can do no better in your own appeal.
 
There are no more Apostles because a requirement for an Apostle was to be witness of the resurrection of Jesus.
Yes there are apostles
Matt 28:19-20 and acts 1:8 require apostles till chris returns

And if something is not possible it is no longer required
And even Paul would not be an apostle according to acts 1

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Dogma

142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.

137. The Church was founded by the God-Man Jesus Christ.
138. Our Redeemer Himself conserves with divine power the society founded by Him, the
Church.
139. Christ is the Divine Redeemer of His Body, the Church.
140. Christ founded the Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time.
141. Christ gave His Church a hierarchical constitution.
142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.
143. Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible head
of the whole Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction.
144. According to Christ’s ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole
Church and for all time.
145. The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the bishops of Rome.
146. The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not
merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of
the Church.
147. The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
148. By virtue of Divine Right the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their
dioceses.
149. Christ is the Head of the Church.
150. In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals the Church is infallible.
151. The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine
concerning faith and morals.
152. The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or
scattered over the earth, propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the
faithful.
153. The Church founded by Christ is unique and one.
154. The Church founded by Christ is holy.
155. The Church founded by Christ is catholic.
156. The Church founded by Christ is apostolic.

157. Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

Thks
 
Yes there are apostles
Matt 28:19-20 and acts 1:8 require apostles till chris returns

And if something is not possible it is no longer required
And even Paul would not be an apostle according to acts 1

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Dogma

142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.

137. The Church was founded by the God-Man Jesus Christ.
138. Our Redeemer Himself conserves with divine power the society founded by Him, the
Church.
139. Christ is the Divine Redeemer of His Body, the Church.
140. Christ founded the Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time.
141. Christ gave His Church a hierarchical constitution.
142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.
143. Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible head
of the whole Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction.
144. According to Christ’s ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole
Church and for all time.
145. The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the bishops of Rome.
146. The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not
merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of
the Church.
147. The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
148. By virtue of Divine Right the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their
dioceses.
149. Christ is the Head of the Church.
150. In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals the Church is infallible.
151. The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine
concerning faith and morals.
152. The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or
scattered over the earth, propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the
faithful.
153. The Church founded by Christ is unique and one.
154. The Church founded by Christ is holy.
155. The Church founded by Christ is catholic.
156. The Church founded by Christ is apostolic.

157. Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

Thks
Christ said he would be with those he sent until the end of the age. He was with them by confirming the words of truth with miracles

The end of that age or world came with the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70
After that, there would be no more confirmation of the truth through the working of miracles by men.
 
Christ said he would be with those he sent until the end of the age. He was with them by confirming the words of truth with miracles

The end of that age or world came with the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70
After that, there would be no more confirmation of the truth through the working of miracles by men.
Matt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Sorry includes all nations to the ends of the earth and the end of the world
 
Back
Top