To clarify: do you mean in this post that Jesus is not Divine ?
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There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.
- Thread starter Dmytro
- Start date
My understanding isn't based solely on what is not said.
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says...
...
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”
But that is a quote from Psalms 102:25-27, which is clearly speaking of Yahweh. In other words, the writer of Hebrews saw fit to ascribe to the Son a Psalm about Yahweh, from the mouth of the Father no less. The implication is that the Son is also Yahweh. That the Son was involved in creation was already stated in Heb 1:
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
And that completely agrees with John 1:1-3, 10, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17.
Then we have Paul's statements in Romans 10:
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
The implication is that confessing "Jesus is Lord" is the same as calling "on the name of the Lord." And that follows on the heals of 9:5: "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." Although there is dispute as to the placement of punctuation, the most natural flow of the grammar is that Jesus is "God over all."
Jesus also claimed to be the I Am in John 8:58 and claimed many times that he existed with the Father prior to coming to earth.
(All ESV.)
My understanding is also based on what is said. Given what isn't said and what is, Jesus can only be the one God, Yahweh, in human flesh, equal to the Father yet distinct.
Then what, specifically, is poor argumentation in these statements: Just because you find it strange and it doesn't make any sense to you, doesn't mean it isn't true. It is infinitely complex and cannot be fully comprehended by the human mind, but that doesn't mean it's false.
Because, as I keep pointing out, Christianity always has been and will be monotheistic. Given that there was and ever will be only one being that is God, and only God can have the nature of God, it logically follows that Jesus is also truly the one God. And, since God's name is Yahweh, it then follows that the Son is also Yahweh.
The error in your reasoning is that Jesus can be equal to God but not also be the one God. That contradicts Scripture since that is polytheism.
You really don't understand the Trinity nor the monotheism that is taught throughout Scripture nor what is meant by the nature of God. You keep repeating things I've addressed, which the Trinity alone adequately addresses.
I've given numerous passages in which Yahweh himself says he is the only god and there never will be another. There is only one Being that is God; only one Being that has the nature of God. Hence, when God uses "us" and "our" of himself, that speaks to a multiplicity within the one God, since there absolutely cannot be another being that is equal to or has the nature of God. The Bible is unequivocal in its message that there is only one Being that is God and all other living beings are creatures.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)
Notice that God uses plural person pronouns in verse 26 when planning the creation of humans, but then verse 27 uses singular personal pronouns when stating the act of humans being created in God's image. The doctrine of the Trinity fully affirms the eternal distinctions between the three divine persons within the one God. What they cannot be are three completely separate, independent beings or gods; that would go completely against Scripture.
Why not?
I pretty much agree except I don't think he pre-existed his physical life and that he's the firstborn among many brothers.
John 17:5
'And now, glorify me, Thou Father, with Thyself, with the glory that I had before the world was, with Thee;
and what’s a problem with him being a firstborn among many brothers? Explain if you want I always anjoy investigating about him
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Same thing for Jeremiah or is it different? Seems if no other human literally pre-existed their birth then why would Jesus? That's why I would like some example of anything Jesus was saying or doing before his birth. Anything? I haven't found anything yet.
Jeremiah 1
4The word of the LORD came to me, saying:
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I set you apart
and appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
My point is Jesus isn't God's "only" son. There are many sons of God in the Bible who are themselves not God. Examples in both the OT and NT. Here's one.
Romans 8
14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Jesus is God’s only son through whom others are also made sons.
Jesus was led by the Spirit of God. I suppose if he wasn’t, he wouldn’t be a son of God.
If God took upon himself human flesh, a human mind and a human will, could He pretend to be a human person?
Because that is begging the question. You’re beginning with the premise that Jesus is only human.
Since Jesus was also a human person, why would you expect to find him doing or saying anything before his birth? Rather, believe what Jesus says when he says he existed with the Father prior to creation (as the Son). Believe what John says, that the Word was the preincarnate Son who existed in intimate communion with God and was also God in nature, proving it by stating everything that was ever created came into existence through the Word. Believe Paul when he says that the Son was in nature God before he became human, and when he also says that the Son was involved in the creation of everything that came into existence. Believe the writer of Hebrews when he says that the Son was involved in the creation of everything, and when he has the Father quoting Psalm 102:25-27 and saying it is about the Son.
Everywhere the OT says YHWH, that includes the preincarnate Son and the Holy Spirit.
He would be a human person, as Christianity has always taught.
Which Christianity?
definitely not the same. Jeremiah was foreknown, planned, predestined, appointed before his birth while Jesus according to his words WAS before his birth and before the creation of the world with the Father and was in glory. He was before Abraham was and through him all was created. Seems like I’m the only one here believing in Jesus as a divine person all the other either don’t believe he’s divine or don’t believe he’s a person in a regular sense.
Historic, orthodox Christianity. There has never been a denial by Christians as a whole that Jesus was not truly human. If you think that isn't true, then please, provide evidence.
You're the only one who believes in polytheism. Which is unbiblical, since God himself states many times that he is the only one, and this is repeated by his people throughout Scripture.
Catholic Encyclopedia:
“the human nature of Christ, though not a human person, loses nothing of the perfection of the perfect man; for the Divine Person supplies the place of the human.”
Is Jesus a human person
you yourself said he’s not a being so how he is s human person. We all are beings while he according to you isn’t
Stop accusing me and simply admit the truth. I believe Jesus is a divine person while you don’t believe he’s a divine person. You yourself said.
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