There is an alternative to trinitarianism/ non-trinitarianism.

[Hopeful 2]

All synonymous with the Spirit of YHWH.
Breath
Word
Speak
Truth
Sword

Without the scriptures that show the contexts, that was just your opinion.
I use biblegateway.com for quick access.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The body yes. My mother's womb was my beginning. Mary's womb was not Jesus's beginning.

Where then, was Jesus during his gestation ?

I'm believe Jesus saw Abraham.

He may have indeed, but He would have still been the Word at the time.

He testified to what He saw and heard in the Fathers presence in heaven from His mind.

What do you mean..."from His mind" ?

I don't separate Him from the Son who was who has no ending.

Who is the "Him" you are not separating from the Son ?
The Word ?
Abraham ?

He came down from heaven. He ascended to where He was before. He is the only such eyewitness of God and therefore it should be accepted of Abraham as well.

I thought we were discussing Jesus, (the Word made flesh); not Abraham.

 

[Runningman]

Except human beings don’t come from heaven and Jesus says he came from heaven. That is what John had just written in 1:14 and writes again in 3:31:

Jhn 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. (ESV)

Jesus repeats several times that he is from above, the clear meaning of which is that he literally preexisted with the Father. That’s why John said what he did in John 1:1-18, 12:39-42, why Paul said what he did in 1 Cor 8:6, Col 1:16-17, and Phil 2:5-8, and why the writer of Hebrew said what he did in 1:2-3, 10-12.

Yet you have not mentioned John 6 where Jesus compares himself to the manna which came from heaven. That doesn't mean the manna from heaven is above all or that the manna is God. It refers to those in the kingdom of heaven being greater than those of Earth, but not that being from heaven makes someone or something God.

What Jesus is saying is he was sent by God as the New Testament repeatedly says. Not that Jesus is himself God. See John 3:16,17 and John 17:3.

 

[LeviR]

Without the scriptures that show the contexts, that was just your opinion.
I use biblegateway.com for quick access.

How can Jesus be YHWH if he is the Son of YHWH?

For example, if Jesus is Lord, and Lord is YHWH, how can Jesus be both YHWH and the son of YHWH?

 

[Hopeful 2]

How can Jesus be YHWH if he is the Son of YHWH?

For example, if Jesus is Lord, and Lord is YHWH, how can Jesus be both YHWH and the son of YHWH?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
When the Word put on flesh, He became Jesus.
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
God and the Word existed as one from before there was time.
The Word separated from God, in the sense of their Oneness, when the Word took on flesh.

What is your definition of the word YHWH ?

 

[LeviR]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
When the Word put on flesh, He became Jesus.
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
God and the Word existed as one from before there was time.
The Word separated from God, in the sense of their Oneness, when the Word took on flesh.

What is your definition of the word YHWH ?

Is The Word a name of Jesus?

 

[LeviR]

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
When the Word put on flesh, He became Jesus.
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
God and the Word existed as one from before there was time.
The Word separated from God, in the sense of their Oneness, when the Word took on flesh.

What is your definition of the word YHWH ?

YHWH is the personal name of God. A single distinct person, as in He alone is YHWH.

 

[LeviR]

Without the scriptures that show the contexts, that was just your opinion.
I use biblegateway.com for quick access.

There are multiple examples of Word and Spirit being synonymous.

“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

“In Him was life, and the life was the light of men” John 1:4

It is the Spirit that gives life. Jesus’ words are Spirit. His words are life.
In him was life. In him was Spirit. His words are Spirit.

Jesus’ words are synonymous with Spirit.

When the Word became flesh, so did the Spirit.
The Spirit of Who?
The Spirit of the Father.

To say the Word was with God is synonymous with saying the Spirit was with God. (The Spirit comes forth from the Father)
And to say the Word was God, is synonymous with saying the Spirit was God.

When the Word became flesh, so did the Spirit of the Father which is God.

 

[Dmytro]

To be " Equal to God " can only be God.
2+2 will always = 4
To say there is one equal to God but not God is to say 2+2 = 3
There is no "equal" to God.
He is singularly unique .
There is only One God that has All Power over Heaven & earth for ever & ever .

Mat 28:18
"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

I got your point. Here is what I believe:

• That the Father is the only true God, his name is Yahweh. He’s the one who revealed himself to us in OT.
• Jesus is a person and being. He’s equal to the Father in terms of nature, he always was and always will be, everything the Father is doing he’s doing through Jesus, the Father handed over everything he had to Jesus’.

This is what I believe to be the message of Jesus confirmed to us by the Father. So let’s discuss?

 

[LeviR]

I got your point. Here is what I believe:

• That the Father is the only true God, his name is Yahweh. He’s the one who revealed himself to us in OT.
• Jesus is a person and being. He’s equal to the Father in terms of nature, he always was and always will be, everything the Father is doing he’s doing through Jesus, the Father handed over everything he had to Jesus’.

This is what I believe to be the message of Jesus confirmed to us by the Father. So let’s discuss?

It is not nature that they are equal. It’s In words and works.
Jesus died. He was raised from the dead and now dies no more.
Therefore, the nature he first had was mortal nature. The nature he now has is divine nature or immortal nature.

 

[Randy]

Where then, was Jesus during his gestation ?

He may have indeed, but He would have still been the Word at the time.

What do you mean..."from His mind" ?

Who is the "Him" you are not separating from the Son ?
The Word ?
Abraham ?

I thought we were discussing Jesus, (the Word made flesh); not Abraham.

I replied to your comment in regard to Jesus and Abraham.
The Logos was who Jesus, a living being, was referred to. They are not two people but one. The mind contains memories. Jesus testified to what He saw and heard in the Fathers presence from His mind. The only such eyewitness of God.

The word became flesh. A body was prepared for Him. The Him preexisted that body.

Hebrews 13:8

Hebrews 10:5-7
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’

 

[LeviR]

I replied to your comment in regard to Jesus and Abraham.
The Logos was who Jesus, a living being, was referred to. They are not two people but one. The mind contains memories. Jesus testified to what He saw and heard in the Fathers presence from His mind. The only such eyewitness of God.

The word became flesh. A body was prepared for Him. The Him preexisted that body.

Hebrews 13:8

Hebrews 10:5-7
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’

The Father prepared a body for him ( a spiritual body) in the same way Jesus is preparing a body (spiritual body) for those who are his.
Comes by resurrection of the dead.

 

[Dmytro]

It is not nature that they are equal. It’s In words and works.
Jesus died. He was raised from the dead and now dies no more.
Therefore, the nature he first had was mortal nature. The nature he now has is divine nature or immortal nature.

I got your point, that is what you believe. I believe what I stated :yes And I agree, they are equal in words and works. And if Jesus weren’t equal to the Father by nature, by strength, he wouldn’t be able to do all his works.

 

[LeviR]

I got your point, that is what you believe. I believe what I stated :yes And I agree, they are equal in words and works.

We need to be careful because the text in Philippines 2:6 where it’s said “who in the form of God” is translated in the NIV as “who in the nature of God”.
The word “form” is morphe and refers to “the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance:” Thayer
It does not refer to nature, which is what something is made of, the very substance of a thing.
Jesus appeared to be God, not only in image but in words and works. Not in nature.

 

[Consecrated Life]

No. "my Father only" i,e., not the Son or anyone else for that matter.

Now my turn and don't get slippery on me.

The Father is the only one who knows? YES OR NO.

Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Yes , Jesus on this day 05/30/2024 Has ALL POWER of God the Father.
And having ALL POWER of God the Father He knows ALL THINGS.
ALL THINGS , includes the " Day and the hour" by the way .
That's a yes or a no by the way .

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[Runningman]

Yes , Jesus on this day 05/30/2024 Has ALL POWER of God the Father.
And having ALL POWER of God the Father He knows ALL THINGS.
That's a yes or a no by the way .

Mat 28:18
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Not according to Scripture. Jesus doesn't have the power or authority of God such as in Matthew 24:36 or Acts 1:7.

Matthew 24
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Acts 1
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[LeviR]

Not according to Scripture. Jesus doesn't have the power or authority of God such as in Matthew 24:36 or Acts 1:7.

Matthew 24
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Acts 1
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

No matter how hard you hit them with the truth, they don’t like it.

 

[Dmytro]

We need to be careful because the text in Philippines 2:6 where it’s said “who in the form of God” is translated in the NIV as “who in the nature of God”.
The word “form” is morphe and refers to “the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance:” Thayer
It does not refer to nature, which is what something is made of, the very substance of a thing.
Jesus appeared to be God, not only in image but in words and works.

see my update to #473. Yes, I believe in OT Jesus was hidden, not yet revealed, and acted under the name of the Father - Yahweh. In this way he was in the form of Yahweh God. And because he is like Yahweh by nature uttering his very words and doing all his deeds yes!!! he’s the perfect form of Yahweh. The one who sees Jesus doesn’t need to seek to see Yahweh also, because Jesus is in Yahweh and Yahweh is in him.

Autocorrection on this phones is so annoying. Need to edit posts for several times

 

[Dmytro]

No matter how hard you hit them with the truth, they don’t like it.

That’s not about power but about difference between persons. I don’t know what’s in my fathers head. Jesus doesn’t know what his Father’s plans are until the Father reveals to him. They are different beings/ persons of the same nature. And yes the Father has greater authority than Jesus, he’s our God and his, but he, the Father, interacts with us only through Jesus so for us Jesus is Yahweh himself

 

[LeviR]

That’s not about power or authority but about difference between persons. I don’t know what in my fathers head. Jesus doesn’t know what his Father’s plans are until the Father reveals to him. They are different beings/ persons of the same nature.

The orthodox RCC says that God died.
The orthodox Protestant Church says only the flesh of Jesus died.
The Bible says Jesus died.