Those who don't pay their tithes shall end up in hell

[Jim Parker]

Christians shouldn't pay tithes, right?
How about the ten commandments?

The other ten commandments do not require Christians to take their tithe to Jerusalem and rejoice before the Lord there as the law of the tithe does.
Do you do that?
No, you do not, but that's what the law requires if you are going to "pay your tithes".
The other ten commandments do not require Christians once every three years to put their tithes in the storehouses in their town so that there will be provision for the widow, orphan, stranger and Levite.
Do you do that?
No, you do not, but that's what the law requires if you are going to "pay your tithes".

Have you read how scripture says to tithe?
Here it is again: (NKJV)
Deu 14:22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
28 At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29
And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

 

[jasonc]

Are you accusing me of hate?

No,lol.

My nose is big because the air is cheap.

 

[Classik]

Unfortunately you missed my point and original intent.
A poster informs us that Tithing is an OT practice. I asked, How about the 10 commandments mentioned in the OT, are they relevant today (if we claim Tithing is OT)

The other ten commandments do not require Christians to take their tithe to Jerusalem and rejoice before the Lord there as the law of the tithe does.
Do you do that?
No, you do not, but that's what the law requires if you are going to "pay your tithes".
The other ten commandments do not require Christians once every three years to put their tithes in the storehouses in their town so that there will be provision for the widow, orphan, stranger and Levite.
Do you do that?
No, you do not, but that's what the law requires if you are going to "pay your tithes".

Have you read how scripture says to tithe?
Here it is again: (NKJV)
Deu 14:22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
28 At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29
And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not my point. My point is, general giving to church welfare or whatever is never considered by some to be necessary as all forms of giving may imply merely exploiting the givers.

Thank you for clarifying that as I misunderstood what you were saying . We need to give from the heart like the lady with the two mites gave from here heart.

 

[JohnDB]

Thank you for clarifying that as I misunderstood what you were saying . We need to give from the heart like the lady with the two mites gave from here heart.

And Jesus was watching and waiting for her all day. He knew that she was coming...and He watched and waited for her. Think about the excitement on Jesus' part...for her. The one who gave the least was promoted to the best... just because.

 

[Corn Pop]

As many in today's society already do, I could easily eliminate my increase by borrowing money until I'm living on credit. Such as, buying all those expensive toys that I don't really need, building/buying far more house than I truly need, spending on more lavish automobiles, furniture, clothing, etc. than I truly need, and so on.

Being in debt in many if not most cases does not translate into being in need.

Yes but if you have borrowed and you have a contract to pay back that debt at so much a week or a bill comes in that needs to be payed the debts must be payed before you tithe the increase.

God expects people to pay there debts owed and not break promises you will pay the phone or power bill by due date. Then you can freely give what's left.

Its ungodly to borrow and not pay the debt owed and give the money to someone else.

The modern system is built on debt and people are up to there neck in it just to survive so they could not even tithe, but they can donate little. You still need gas to get to work after paying a weekly mortgage and Gods expectation you put food on the table and do your duty to look after your wife and children. Or you don't pay the weekly mortgage and have no gas to get to work because you tithed and end up losing your house and job living on the streets out of trash bins why the church and pastor you tithed is living in pure luxury worth millions from everyone's cash.

Donation churches are fine. Tithe churches are crooked.

 

[JohnDB]

Yes but if you have borrowed and you have a contract to pay back that debt at so much a week or a bill comes in that needs to be payed the debts must be payed before you tithe the increase.

God expects people to pay there debts owed and not break promises you will pay the phone or power bill by due date. Then you can freely give what's left.

Its ungodly to borrow and not pay the debt owed and give the money to someone else.

The modern system is built on debt and people are up to there neck in it just to survive so they could not even tithe, but they can donate little. You still need gas to get to work after paying a weekly mortgage and Gods expectation you put food on the table and do your duty to look after your wife and children. Or you don't pay the weekly mortgage and have no gas to get to work because you tithed and end up losing your house and job living on the streets out of trash bins why the church and pastor you tithed is living in pure luxury worth millions from everyone's cash.

Donation churches are fine. Tithe churches are crooked.

Weekly mortgage?
Never heard of this.

And apartment rent is still cheaper than owning a home. (Generally speaking)

But setting up a budget that doesn't spend all you earn is possible.

 

[Corn Pop]

Weekly mortgage?
Never heard of this.

And apartment rent is still cheaper than owning a home. (Generally speaking)

But setting up a budget that doesn't spend all you earn is possible.

What people have left after a budget they can freely give but some might have nothing.

For example if someone struggling earns 500 in the hand a week the church expects 50, but after 250 rent and 50 gas to get to work, and 100 food to feed the wife and kids for a week that's already 500 gone. How on earth can a filthy rich tithe church expect someone on a 500 a week wage to pay 50 tithe?. That's just a random example but semi relevant. Add in other bills like power and maybe debt getting a new reliable car on credit to get to work and get the family around. Who knows. They might be able to give 20 a week donation but not compulsory tithe.

 

[JohnDB]

What people have left after a budget they can freely give but some might have nothing.

For example if someone struggling earns 500 in the hand a week the church expects 50, but after 250 rent and 50 gas to get to work, and 100 food to feed the wife and kids for a week that's already 500 gone. How on earth can a filthy rich tithe church expect someone on a 500 a week wage to pay 50 tithe?. That's just a random example but semi relevant. Add in other bills like power and maybe debt getting a new reliable car on credit to get to work and get the family around. Who knows. They might be able to give 20 a week donation but not compulsory tithe.

Struggling?
What you are describing is a financial disaster.
Somebody needs a bigger income... overtime or someone else needs to get an income.

 

[iLOVE]

A man's gift makes room for him, and brings him before great men. Proverbs 18:16 NKJV

 

[Corn Pop]

Struggling?
What you are describing is a financial disaster.
Somebody needs a bigger income... overtime or someone else needs to get an income.

That's just a solo worker on min wage trying to supporta family. I guess someone on welfare struggles more. I do not believe the average family has spare cash each week.

 

[Corn Pop]

The other ten commandments do not require Christians to take their tithe to Jerusalem and rejoice before the Lord there as the law of the tithe does.
Do you do that?
No, you do not, but that's what the law requires if you are going to "pay your tithes".
The other ten commandments do not require Christians once every three years to put their tithes in the storehouses in their town so that there will be provision for the widow, orphan, stranger and Levite.
Do you do that?
No, you do not, but that's what the law requires if you are going to "pay your tithes".

Have you read how scripture says to tithe?
Here it is again: (NKJV)
Deu 14:22 “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
28 At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29
And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

When you read the exact scripture of tithe you posted its obviously clear how the church has twisted scripture to suit its own greed. I mean anyone can just read those scriptures and see how twisted and corrupt the church has changed it. It calls it tithe and expects 10% but is nothing even near the way tithe was done in the early days of a theocracy. And there is nothing in the bible that says it can be done in any other way, its only what man makes up and its not scriptural. The church has changed the times and laws to suit itself. Well the false church.

Freely donating is fine even if its 20% or 100%. Its compulsary 10% tithe thats rigged.

 

[for_his_glory]

And Jesus was watching and waiting for her all day. He knew that she was coming...and He watched and waited for her. Think about the excitement on Jesus' part...for her. The one who gave the least was promoted to the best... just because.

Because she was faithful to give her best begrudging nothing. We need to be the same with our giving whether monetarily or that of Matthew 25:34-40 it all needs to come from the heart.

 

[Edward]

I think most people are missing the point about tithing. It is not compulsory in NT times, and besides, everyone does not grow their own food anymore.

But God does not change. If a believer has it on their heart to tithe, then God will very much so keep His word and bless them for it. Even if they twist the protocol and call first fruits gross income instead of net. It is what's in your heart, and not in the details on this.

Now if someone wanted to start tithing to...show a profit in blessings...then that would not be an honorable tithe.

The churches who teach compulsory tithe are wrong and better watch out. But if a believer tithes with a good heart, it can be done anywhere. Don't worry that the pastor may buy a caddy with your money (it's not your money)...once you give to the church with good heart...it's between them and God if they steal it.

 

[Jim Parker]

Unfortunately you missed my point and original intent.
A poster informs us that Tithing is an OT practice. I asked, How about the 10 commandments mentioned in the OT, are they relevant today (if we claim Tithing is OT)

That was ME.
Tithing is absolutely OT. I posted you the requirement for Israel to tithe from Deuteronomy 14.
There is NOTHING in the New Testament that tells Gentile Christians that they are required to tithe.
If I am not correct then post the NT scripture that shows me to be incorrect.

What I told you is that NO ONE tithes in a biblical manner, that is, according to the explicit instructions laid out in scripture.
Then I summarized the law of the tithe.
Then I posted the law of the tithe.
You have ignored that information.

The question of whether we should keep the 10 commandments is a totally different topic. (AKA: Red Herring; attempting to redirect the conversation in a different direction and avoiding addressing the specific information posted in support of my assertion.)

Paul makes a very clear statement about those who think that Christians have to keep the law in order to be saved.
Gal 3:10 (NKJV) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
Tithing is part of the Law.

If you are promoting tithing as a necessity for Christians then you are promoting keeping the Law for Christians and you are telling them that they should be under the curse to which Paul referred.

iakov the fool

 

[Wrg1405]

There is NOTHING in the New Testament that tells Gentile Christians that they are required to tithe.
If I am not correct then post the NT scripture that shows me to be incorrect.

From my limited knowledge there is not a verse in the NT post ressurection that requires tithing. Those that teach OT are misguided as they tend to quote if you want financial blessing then you must give, give 10% get 20% back.

I see goodness and grace in the OT tithe in that the tithe was a blessing to those who could tithe but also a blessing to those who could not tithe. The Levites, the poor, the widows benefited from the giving that God required to be given. This part of the tithe for me is what should be the focus I the NT. To me that's the focus for giving.

I have had many experiences of giving to the needy, money, food vouchers, a washing machine

I tell you the truth when my wife and I have done this most times we have recieved back more than we gave. What did we do with it? Helped more people. That's the spirit of of the law. This is what Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for. They did not operate in the spirit of the law but used it to meet their own needs.

We need to walk in the spirit of the law. Give from the heart and help the poor, the needy and those that need it. We may not get back what we gave but we are building up treasures in heaven

 

[Classik]

Sorry. I concentrated only on your point that Tithing is OT practice. I did not bother about the rest as the little I read summarised your view. So I noticed nothing to avoid.

You can help us with verses that forbid NT Tithing

That was ME.
Tithing is absolutely OT. I posted you the requirement for Israel to tithe from Deuteronomy 14.
There is NOTHING in the New Testament that tells Gentile Christians that they are required to tithe.
If I am not correct then post the NT scripture that shows me to be incorrect.

What I told you is that NO ONE tithes in a biblical manner, that is, according to the explicit instructions laid out in scripture.
Then I summarized the law of the tithe.
Then I posted the law of the tithe.
You have ignored that information.

The question of whether we should keep the 10 commandments is a totally different topic. (AKA: Red Herring; attempting to redirect the conversation in a different direction and avoiding addressing the specific information posted in support of my assertion.)

Paul makes a very clear statement about those who think that Christians have to keep the law in order to be saved.
Gal 3:10 (NKJV) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
Tithing is part of the Law.

If you are promoting tithing as a necessity for Christians then you are promoting keeping the Law for Christians and you are telling them that they should be under the curse to which Paul referred.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Those that teach OT are misguided as they tend to quote if you want financial blessing then you must give, give 10% get 20% back.

1Ti 6:3-5 (NKJV) If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

I tell you the truth when my wife and I have done this most times we have recieved back more than we gave.

It seems to me that the more I give, the more I have to give.

 

[Jim Parker]

You can help us with verses that forbid NT Tithing

There is no such thing as "NT tithing" so there are no verses which forbid what does not exist.

However, Paul did say, ".. let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver." (2Co 9:7 NKJV)
I perceive the words "not...of necessity" (or "under compulsion" NASB) to be a reference to the requirement of the law of the tithe. I am not aware of any other "necessity" or "compulsion" to give.

Do you believe that tithing (as it is widely preached today) is a necessity for a Christian?
If so, why?

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

When you read the exact scripture of tithe you posted its obviously clear how the church has twisted scripture to suit its own greed. I mean anyone can just read those scriptures and see how twisted and corrupt the church has changed it. It calls it tithe and expects 10% but is nothing even near the way tithe was done in the early days of a theocracy. And there is nothing in the bible that says it can be done in any other way, its only what man makes up and its not scriptural. The church has changed the times and laws to suit itself. Well the false church.

Freely donating is fine even if its 20% or 100%. Its compulsary 10% tithe thats rigged.

Paul says that "the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel." (1 Cor 9:14 RSV) In other words, they need to be paid. (I believe they should be paid enough so that they don't have to take on another job to support themselves and their family but, depending on the size and income of the congregation, that's not always possible.)

Also, common sense (a bit of a rarity these days) would suggest that if the congregation wants a building with a roof that doesn't leak and heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer then they need to pony up and pay for it.

iakov the fool