Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Free]

Free

Which of the three persons that make up the trinity god would you say are the one True God?

You say all of them, right?

Yes. Who do you say the one true God is?

The Bible very clearly says otherwise.

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the (ONE) true God, and eternal life."
1 John 5:20

Full of pronouns and culminating with a very decisive declaration of THE True God. Not even a hint of any plurality there.

Firstly, "He is the true God and eternal life," can refer to either the Father or the Son.

Secondly, notice that the Son is distinct from the Father, as all sons are. Do you think a son is ever his own father or a father is his own son? Don't nature and common sense tell us that a son is always distinct from his father, yet of the same nature? So, yes, there is plurality.

Thirdly, we cannot just take one verse from a book and think it is conclusive. That is to divorce it from the context of the passage, the book, and the rest of the Bible. To avoid proof-texting we must, at a minimum, consider what John has written already:

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—
1Jn 1:2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Note the echoes of John 1:1-2,14. Also, that the Father and the Son are distinct.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
...
1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.

Of most importance here is that Jesus is our "advocate with the Father." An advocate, according to the relevant definition from Merriam-Webster, is "one who pleads the cause of another." Of course, that is done on behalf of another before another or others (such as a judge or a court). Logically then, the Son cannot be an advocate with the Father if he is the Father. It would be nonsense to make such a claim.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

1Jn 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1Jn 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
...
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

Notice in 4:9-10, 14 that the Father sends the Son. This very much echoes John 3:13-17. The Father sends the Son to be the Saviour, which means the Son is distinct from the Father. Otherwise, why the confusion? Why the continual distinctions and use of "Father" and "Son" (and "Spirit"), if so much confusion would have been eliminated by just the simple use of "God"? For example, John 3:16 could easily read: "For God so loved the world, that he gave himself, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life,"

1Jn 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify:
1Jn 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son.
1Jn 5:10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

All those passages show a clear distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Never once are they said to be the same person. As you said, God is not the author of confusion, so if they are all the same, then why would they continually be mentioned as distinct one from the other?

Also, 1 John 2:23 and 5:12 echo what John wrote in his gospel:

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

And, of course, we cannot ignore what he wrote in the prologue:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

That is exactly what he says in 1 John 1:2. That "with" is very important. As I stated regarding John 1:1, which you left unaddressed, is that pros indicates relational intimacy. It makes no sense to say that the Son was with the Father for eternity but they are both one and the same person.

However, it does make sense when speaking of at least two persons. And this is supported by 1 John saying that "God is love" in 1 John 4:8, 16. That is, to say God is love, is to make a statement about his essence and not merely the idea that he is loving; he cannot not love.

What then is love? At its fullest, it is both a healthy love of self and an outward expression towards others. We should fully expect then, that if God is love, that his love must have the fullest expression and necessarily includes love of others from before creation of all time and space, from eternity past. However, if God is a monad, then to say that “God is love” means 1) that God loved himself, and 2) that the fullest and proper expression of his love is dependent on creation. This contradicts the statement that “God is love,” as it leaves His love incomplete and deficient, meaning that he cannot be truly and fully God.

When we consider the Trinity, however, it all works. There are three persons each being truly and fully God, equally possessing the full and undivided essence (one being that is God), having been in and intimate and loving relationship and communion for eternity past. Only now we can truly say that God is love. Diversity within the unity.

(All ESV.)

 

[Consecrated Life]

Agreed.

But is He part of a trinity?

There are other descriptors you could use I guess.
You could say He is one third of the Almighty co-equals, each having a specific divine purpose .
But yes, I think the word trinity was chosen because of it's ease of use .

 

[GodsGrace]

God the Father.

Did you think you had something with John 2:19? Give it a whirl and see what happens.

Now here is a question for YOU. Was Jesus and God the Son the same person? If so, was GOD that dead flesh in the tomb? If not, who was dead in the tomb? I do not ask what was dead but WHO.

I await ONE single verse which mentions this three person God. Just ONE.

Matthew 28:19

Baptise in the name of
THE FATHER
THE SON
THE HOLY SPIRIT

We either believe Jesus or not.
You care not to.
It's your prerogative.

But why are you here to try to convince others of your theology?

 

[Free]

Lack of evidence is not proof of anything.

It doesn't say that God isn't an invisible flying pink elephant either.

You seem to have missed the point, which is, the Bible never rules out the possibility of God being a compound unity.

Deut. 6:4
Zech. 14:9
Isaiah 42-48

All statements of monotheism, which is foundational to the doctrine of the Trinity.

I don't need you to provide anything.

Indeed, you have provided very little so far. It is once again not hard to notice that you still haven't answered all those other things I pointed out. Regardless, since you seem unwilling to do the necessary hard work, which is quite perplexing considering how sure you are of your position in this, one of the most serious of all theological discussions, I will provide that answer for you.

There are at least two Hebrew words that mean "one," yachid and echad. Yachid means an "absolute unity," that is, if used of God, it would mean he is a single, solitary "unit," absolutely only one person, as we are. That would obviously mean the Trinity is false.

However, yachid is never used of God. Only echad is used of God and that can refer to, although not necessarily, a compound unity—multiplicity within that one, such as “one nation under God;” that one nation consisting of millions of people. Echad is what "one" in English means and is what is used in Deut 6:4, for instance. It does leave the door open for the Trinity although it neither proves nor disproves it.

Hence why you cannot provide one single verse that states God is ontologically an absolute unity, only one person.

 

[jaybo]

God the Father.

Did you think you had something with John 2:19? Give it a whirl and see what happens.

Now here is a question for YOU. Was Jesus and God the Son the same person? If so, was GOD that dead flesh in the tomb? If not, who was dead in the tomb? I do not ask what was dead but WHO.

I await ONE single verse which mentions this three person God. Just ONE.

John 16:15, "Everything that the Father has is mine [i.e., Jesus']; that is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you." Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

Your explanation of the body in the tomb clearly shows that you like understanding about the triune God. God became human and lived among people in the form of Jesus Christ (who said that He and the Father are one). John 10:30 Then Jesus was resurrected and sent the Holy Spirit from His father: God.

 

[theWind]

He is one third of the Almighty co-equals, each having a specific divine purpose .

And where does Jesus teach such a massively important aspect of His nature as God?

Please post the verses/passages for review.

 

[theWind]

Firstly, "He is the true God and eternal life," can refer to either the Father or the Son.

Because they are one and the same.

Secondly, notice that the Son is distinct from the Father, as all sons are.

Only human sons are distinct from their father. Jesus is not human.

Do you think a son is ever his own father or a father is his own son?

Not among humans.

Don't nature and common sense tell us that a son is always distinct from his father, yet of the same nature? So, yes, there is plurality.

Only among human limitations. No, there is no plurality.

Identify Jesus' human father who took part in His human procreation.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—
1Jn 1:2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

All proves they are one person.

Note the echoes of John 1:1-2,14. Also, that the Father and the Son are distinct.

They are not and it doesn't indicate that at all.

1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.

Correct. They are the same person.

 

[theWind]

You seem to have missed the point, which is, the Bible never rules out the possibility of God being a compound unity.


All statements of monotheism, which is foundational to the doctrine of the Trinity.


Indeed, you have provided very little so far. It is once again not hard to notice that you still haven't answered all those other things I pointed out. Regardless, since you seem unwilling to do the necessary hard work, which is quite perplexing considering how sure you are of your position in this, one of the most serious of all theological discussions, I will provide that answer for you.

There are at least two Hebrew words that mean "one," yachid and echad. Yachid means an "absolute unity," that is, if used of God, it would mean he is a single, solitary "unit," absolutely only one person, as we are. That would obviously mean the Trinity is false.

However, yachid is never used of God. Only echad is used of God and that can refer to, although not necessarily, a compound unity—multiplicity within that one, such as “one nation under God;” that one nation consisting of millions of people. Echad is what "one" in English means and is what is used in Deut 6:4, for instance. It does leave the door open for the Trinity although it neither proves nor disproves it.

Hence why you cannot provide one single verse that states God is ontologically an absolute unity, only one person.

Isaiah 42-48

 

[Free]

Isaiah 42-48

You're not even dealing with my arguments. The passages you have given only support monotheism, which I and every other Trinitarian completely agree with, not God as he exists in and of himself. Those are two very different ideas. Not a single one of those support God as an absolute unity.

 

[theWind]

You're not even dealing with my arguments.

How's it taste?

Have you ever had a shovel-full of your own medicine?

Isaiah 42-48

That silences all your arguments.

 

[Free]

Because they are one and the same.

You have not shown this to be the case.

Only human sons are distinct from their father. Jesus is not human.

Not among humans.

Only among human limitations. No, there is no plurality.

So, God reveals himself using the same language we use of human relationships--language that ultimately comes from him--but uses it in a meaningless, nonsensical way? That is a strange position to take, to say the least.

All proves they are one person.

If they are all one person, then it is all pointless nonsense.

They are not and it doesn't indicate that at all.

It certainly does, but you are leaving all the difficult arguments, all those that undermine your position, unaddressed.

Correct. They are the same person.

Language, grammar, and logic, if they are to mean anything, show that they simple cannot all be the same person.

How's it taste?

Have you ever had a shovel-full of your own medicine?

Are you seriously suggesting that I'm not dealing with your arguments? Do you really want me to go back and once again show all the arguments that you have left unaddressed, arguments that seriously undermine your position? Can you show one argument that I have avoided? I have put some serious thought and time into my posts, and you have avoided a lot what I have said.

Isaiah 42-48

That silences all your arguments.

Again, no, it absolutely, unequivocally does not. You are ignoring all the evidence I have given which proves that to be the case and instead just keep repeating your defeated assertion as though it were true. You seem to not have seriously studied the matter and, for some reason, seem to have no intent on doing so.

 

[GodsGrace]

How's it taste?

Have you ever had a shovel-full of your own medicine?

Isaiah 42-48

That silences all your arguments.

PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU ARE IN THE THEOLOGY FORUM.

SCRIPTURE MUST BE USED.
CONVERSATIONS ARE TO
BE KEPT CIVIL AND RESPECTFUL.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD.
IF NECESSARY USE TALK WITH STAFF.

 

[Consecrated Life]

And where does Jesus teach such a massively important aspect of His nature as God?

Please post the verses/passages for review.

In your reading you don't see Jesus doing that to your satisfaction already ?
If you see nothing God like in Him now I'm not so sure I could help, but I'll try.
Could you just narrow it down a little what specifically you are looking to see in Christ's nature as God ?
Thanks.

 

[theWind]

In your reading you don't see Jesus doing that to your satisfaction already ?
If you see nothing God like in Him now I'm not so sure I could help, but I'll try.
Could you just narrow it down a little what specifically you are looking to see in Christ's nature as God ?
Thanks.

Sure. Here's the actual exchange:
Your comment:

He is one third of the Almighty co-equals, each having a specific divine purpose .

My reply to your comment:

And where does Jesus teach such a massively important aspect of His nature as God?

Please post the verses/passages for review.

And your next reply, seen at the top of this post, completely ignores the two initial comments and accuses me of asking you for proof of Jesus' divinity.

Please be honest in your exchanges with me and I will be more than respectful to you.

Now, once again, can you please show your Scriptural evidence that demonstrates Jesus teaching this assertion of yours?

He is one third of the Almighty co-equals, each having a specific divine purpose .

Thank you and God bless.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Sure. Here's the actual exchange:
Your comment:

My reply to your comment:

And your next reply, seen at the top of this post, completely ignores the two initial comments and accuses me of asking you for proof of Jesus' divinity.

Please be honest in your exchanges with me and I will be more than respectful to you.

Now, once again, can you please show your Scriptural evidence that demonstrates Jesus teaching this assertion of yours?

Thank you and God bless.

Obvious to me now that you were unable to discern the totality of Jesus's Words in the passage I gave you already as it pertains to the "massively important aspect of His nature as God.
The reason that Jesus does not have the Glory of God as he stands on topside earth & Prays to the Father concerning the Glory He once had is the " massively important aspect of His nature as God"
There is a lot going on, and much to be unpacked in this statement of the Lord's :

Jhn 17:5
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

If He was not God & also a separate component of the Godhead, It would have been impossible for Him to be temporarily divested of God's Glory for the period of time He dwelt among us in flesh .
I for one am thankful everyday that He humbled Himself & was divested from God's Glory for the short period of time
He walked among us.
Because He could not have come to us and saved us had He not.
That is the "massively important aspect of His nature as God" as I see it ,
Thanks.

 

[theWind]

Jhn 17:5
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

This can only be suggested to imply that God is two persons, yet He is actually ONE. There is no mention here by Jesus that He is a three-person god.

Do you have any other Scripture from Jesus that you believe demonstrates Him teaching that He is a trinity?

If He was not God & also a separate component of the Godhead, It would have been impossible for Him to be temporarily divested of God's Glory for the period of time He dwelt among us in flesh .

No, there is actually another possibility and that is that Jesus IS God. They are one person.

Jesus was temporarily separated from God's glory because God humbled Himself when He incarnated into a flesh body for the purposes of breaking the curse of original sin and creating a path for all to follow to ultimate Salvation. He made Himself of no reputation, took the form of a servant (Jesus), becoming the likeness of a man, and became obedient (showing us how to obey the 10 Commandments) to the point of death on the Cross.
Phil. 2:6-8

I for one am thankful everyday that He humbled Himself & was divested from God's Glory for the short period of time
He walked among us.

Me too.

Because He could not have come to us and saved us had He not.

Correct.

 

[JLB]

HMMM! Jayo dodges the question with EASE!

So by your own reasoning we must conclude that Jesus Christ is God because His Spirit is in those who are His.


But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of Goddwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Romans 8:9

The Spirit of God = God
The Spirit of Christ = God

The same Spirit of Christ was in the Old Testament prophets, speaking through them, saying thus says the LORD!


Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11




Spirit of Christ = Spirit of the Lord God.






JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

theWind Hopefully this will help explain about the Trinity in what I have written.

1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.

2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21

3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awakenings in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.

Jesus being the right arm of God who knew no sin. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.

The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.

The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.


Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

Scriptures that reference the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

 

[theWind]

The Spirit of God = God
The Spirit of Christ = God

The same Spirit of Christ was in the Old Testament prophets, speaking through them, saying thus says the LORD!

Praise Jesus!

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

Spirit of Christ = Spirit of the Lord God.

Hallelujah!

 

[jaybo]

Understanding the Trinity is apparently difficult for some people. IMHO the god of this world has blinded them so that they are incapable of understanding the triune God. I feel very sorry for them!