Three person God identified in the Bible?

[Cooper]

Let me ask you this:
When Jesus was a human on earth....
And persons were praying to God....
Who were they praying to?

They were praying to the omnipresent God of the Jews who is One God. What the Father did the Son did etc. and as the Father was in the Son, they were praying to the I AM of the Old Testament, the God of the Jews, or more correctly the God of the whole world whether in heaven, on earth or in our hearts.
.

 

[Cooper]

There is only one God and the Son and the Father are both God, but Jesus is not the Father. If by saying that "God is One," you mean God is a singular "person," an absolute unity, then, no, the Bible itself never clearly or directly affirms that.

Jesus was the creator.
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[Cooper]

There is only one God and the Son and the Father are both God, but Jesus is not the Father. If by saying that "God is One," you mean God is a singular "person," an absolute unity, then, no, the Bible itself never clearly or directly affirms that.

Despite all the scriptures I posted you still persist in reducing Jesus to our level.
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[Cooper]

Free, you are looking at Jesus as he was 2,000 years ago, instead of who he was at the foundation of the earth millions of years earlier. Jesus is the Alpha one Omega, the beginning and the end, the Eternal Mighty God.
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[Randy]

Amen!



Question:

Do you believe the Angel of the Lord in the following passage is the Father or the Son?



In Exodus 3:1-6 we see an encounter that Moses had with the Angel of the Lord.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6




JLB

I think an Angel of the Lord and Gods Holy Spirit. Apparently it scared Moses. But I only think Gods presence was there Via the Holy Spirit.

 

[Free]

Jesus was the creator.
.

Despite all the scriptures I posted you still persist in reducing Jesus to our level.
.

I have not reduced Jesus one bit. He was truly God (the Son) and truly man, as he always will be. He was never and never will be the Father though. The Son was never the Father nor did the Father ever become the Son. To say otherwise would be to make the Father/Son relationship meaningless and it would communicate nothing to us.

As I have maintained consistently throughout this discussion, and all the other discussions on this subject, the Bible reveals certain things that we must make sense of somehow:

1. There was, is, and ever will be only one God.
2. The Father is fully and truly God.
3. The Son is fully and truly God.
4. The Holy Spirit is fully and truly God.
5. The Father is distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct.
6. Each of these "persons" (always an inadequate human approximation) is, by definition of being God, coequal, co-eternal, and consubstantial.

These are all statements that are completely supported by Scripture. God has revealed himself to us in this way, and we are to try and make sense of it, all of it.

There is an issue that must also now be stated: the Ontological Trinity vs. the Economical Trinity. The Ontological Trinity is how God exists in and of himself (think prior to all creation, when God just was). The Economical Trinity is how the Trinity functions and the persons relate to each other, and us, regarding the plan of the salvation of man and redemption of all creation.

The Ontological Trinity is seen in passages such as John 1:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17; the Economical Trinity in passages such as John 1:14-18 and Phil 2:5-12. Much of what Jesus says about himself in relation to the Father--"the Father is greater than I;" "my God and your God;" etc.--fall into the Economical Trinity. But, Jesus also calls himself the I Am on more than one occasion, and that refers to the Ontological Trinity. Complicated and ultimately incomprehensible? Of course, how could it not be when talking about the self-existent, necessary being we know as God? Contradictory or completely unknowable? No.

 

[Cooper]

I have not reduced Jesus one bit. He was truly God (the Son) and truly man, as he always will be. He was never and never will be the Father though. The Son was never the Father nor did the Father ever become the Son. To say otherwise would be to make the Father/Son relationship meaningless and it would communicate nothing to us.

As I have maintained consistently throughout this discussion, and all the other discussions on this subject, the Bible reveals certain things that we must make sense of somehow:

1. There was, is, and ever will be only one God.
2. The Father is fully and truly God.
3. The Son is fully and truly God.
4. The Holy Spirit is fully and truly God.
5. The Father is distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct.
6. Each of these "persons" (always an inadequate human approximation) is, by definition of being God, coequal, co-eternal, and consubstantial.

These are all statements that are completely supported by Scripture. God has revealed himself to us in this way, and we are to try and make sense of it, all of it.

There is an issue that must also now be stated: the Ontological Trinity vs. the Economical Trinity. The Ontological Trinity is how God exists in and of himself (think prior to all creation, when God just was). The Economical Trinity is how the Trinity functions and the persons relate to each other, and us, regarding the plan of the salvation of man and redemption of all creation.

The Ontological Trinity is seen in passages such as John 1:1-3, 1 Cor 8:6, and Col 1:16-17; the Economical Trinity in passages such as John 1:14-18 and Phil 2:5-12. Much of what Jesus says about himself in relation to the Father--"the Father is greater than I;" "my God and your God;" etc.--fall into the Economical Trinity. But, Jesus also calls himself the I Am on more than one occasion, and that refers to the Ontological Trinity. Complicated and ultimately incomprehensible? Of course, how could it not be when talking about the self-existent, necessary being we know as God? Contradictory or completely unknowable? No.

 

[Free]

Free, you are looking at Jesus as he was 2,000 years ago, instead of who he was at the foundation of the earth millions of years earlier.

No, I've actually been very clear about this. John 1:1-3 refer to Christ prior to creation. Just look at my post #1,364 on the previous page.

Jesus is the Alpha one Omega, the beginning and the end, the Eternal Mighty God.
.

Yes, and that is in agreement with what I have been saying the entire time.

 

[GodsGrace]

Me no understand!

Even though this was directed at Cooper, I want to put in my two cents. People, including Jesus, have always prayed to God. (BTW, you answered your own question.)

Cooper said God is omnipresent.
Meaning that He could still uphold the universe even if on the earth as a human.

I disagreed.
I believe God Father is upholding the universe...Jesus could not have been doing this while on earth.

So as to God being omnipresent....yes....
but when Jesus was on earth and persons were praying to God...
Who were they praying to:
God Father or God Son?

I say God Father.

 

[Cooper]

No, I've actually been very clear about this. John 1:1-3 refer to Christ prior to creation. Just look at my post #1,364 on the previous page.


Yes, and that is in agreement with what I have been saying the entire time.

We shall know from your future posts.
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[Randy]

Could you go over Acts 2 please?
I don't know what you mean by THE SPIRIT IS GIVEN BY JESUS.


Is God's spirit the same as The Holy Spirit?
I don't think so...not sure.

I think that at the time of the filoque offense, the east was still under the authority of the Pope.
You could confirm that.

I believe that was the last straw and the schism became official.

I believe the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of our Heavenly Father. There is only one Spirit.
Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of the one who sent Him as He read from the scroll.
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners
Luke 3:22
And the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

Luke 3:22
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.
Acts 2
God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

Ephesians 4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Matt 10
I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Despite all the scriptures I posted you still persist in reducing Jesus to our level.
.

I don't believe Free is reducing Jesus to our level.
This would even be impossible...

I think you're both using different language.
But he's not reducing the important of Jesus as God the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

 

[Free]

We shall know from your future posts.
.

Know what? My future posts will be no different than my past posts.

 

[Cooper]

Cooper said God is omnipresent.
Meaning that He could still uphold the universe even if on the earth as a human.

I disagreed.
I believe God Father is upholding the universe...Jesus could not have been doing this while on earth.

So as to God being omnipresent....yes....
but when Jesus was on earth and persons were praying to God...
Who were they praying to:
God Father or God Son?

I say God Father.

I say people were praying to God the creator aka the Word, and we know who that is don't we. God only became Father at the birth of Jesus. Same One God though, just a different title, hence all the misunderstandings about the One God.
.

 

[Cooper]

I don't believe Free is reducing Jesus to our level.
This would even be impossible...

I think you're both using different language.
But he's not reducing the important of Jesus as God the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

He insists Jesus was only a man, ignoring who he was before the incarnation.
.

 

[Cooper]

Know what? My future posts will be no different than my past posts.

No change then.
.

 

[GodsGrace]

I say God the creator aka the Word, and we know who that is don't we. ): God only became Father at the birth of Jesus. Same One God though, just a different title, hence the misunderstanding.
.

I'm not going to reply to this.
It's getting just too complicated.

God Father was ALWAYS God Father.

 

[Randy]

Amen!



Question:

Do you believe the Angel of the Lord in the following passage is the Father or the Son?



In Exodus 3:1-6 we see an encounter that Moses had with the Angel of the Lord.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6




JLB

Jacob stated He saw God face to face but I think it was a angel.
Genesis 32:22–32
The same night he arose and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven children,5 and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 He took them and sent them across the stream, and everything else that he had. 24 And Jacob was left alone. And a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day. 25 When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the day has broken.” But Jacob said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 And he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 Then he said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel,6 for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him. 30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel,7 saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.” 31 The sun rose upon him as he passed Penuel, limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the people of Israel do not eat the sinew of the thigh that is on the hip socket, because he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip on the sinew of the thigh.

 

[GodsGrace]

He insists Jesus was only a man, ignoring who he was before the incarnation.
.

No Cooper.
Free knows that Jesus was 100% human and 100% divine/God.

Before the incarnation Jesus was the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

 

[Cooper]

Cooper said God is omnipresent.
Meaning that He could still uphold the universe even if on the earth as a human.

I disagreed.
I believe God Father is upholding the universe...Jesus could not have been doing this while on earth.

So as to God being omnipresent....yes....
but when Jesus was on earth and persons were praying to God...
Who were they praying to:
God Father or God Son?

I say God Father.

The all powerful spirit of the Mighty God.
.