Three Persons - Holy Trinity

[Deborah13]

As I have stated, the identification of The Christ, equating him to the Ideal of Truth, also identifies the Father as the almighty Force behind the ever unfolding next frame of Reality

I do appreciate your extensive answer and explanation. Your beliefs are very far from mine. I believe that Jesus was God's literal son, in that He had no earthy biological father.
My realty is based on faith in the above revelation and many others the Scriptures state about Him and His works.

Out of respect to you for your diligence in answering my questions from my first post I will share some of what I believe with you. It is very simple and not foreign to many other Christians but only share by one or two in this forum.

Man is spirit, soul, and body. 1 Thess. 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12
spirit - pneuma (inner man)
soul - psyche (outer man)
body - physical

God is spirit, soul, and body. Matt. 12:18 and many OT scriptures. Also in Matt. the same GK. words are used. This being one way we are created in His image.
God is three in one, each being independent as to the jobs they perform, but one in purpose. I see in Scripture that Jesus is separate from the Father and the Holy Spirit and yet He is God.
Even though man has a spirit, soul, and body we are not like God, we cannot operate individually as three separate beings.

Man's soul is basically his personality, with all that goes with that, emotions, thoughts, and will, etc.
Of coarse our body is just the physical aspects of the body including the brain and heart.
Someone can have access to both the body and the soul of another just by a touch and by speaking to them. The spirit however cannot be accessed by the natural, only Spirit can speak to spirit. John 3:6
The natural brain of man cannot conceive the things of God, as they are only understood by the spirit from the Spirit. John 6:63 When Jesus spoke, the Scripture is the Spirit of God speaking to us. Without a spirit that has been "raised from the dead" if you will or "quickened" we will not be able to understand. This is what the born again person is, the one who has a born again spirit. It is this part of man that becomes born again by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The soul of man is clearly linked to the spirit but I don't believe the Holy Spirit indwells our minds, surely if He did we would have no more problems with sin, it would be all new and old things would have passed away. It is the soul of man that is the problem, it has drank in the things of the world and is corrupt (some more than others).
It is the soul that must be renewed by the Word of God. This is the part of man that is going through the sanctification process the aligning of the soul to the Truths of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit and only then can our natural mind comprehend. Our soul needs to agree with our spirit which agrees with the Holy Spirit.
If not we are a house divided. We sway with the breeze, and are tossed about in the waves. 1 Corinth. 15:53
Most people will say old man, new man like the conflict is just in the mind. No a battle rages within us the spirit wants the things of the Spirit and the soul needs to submit to Spirit of God within us. Submit to God and feed the soul from the tree of life.
I'm sure you are disappointed in that this understanding is not something new or outer limits. Even though most people maybe reason that it doesn't matter, but it explained to me some things, such as how Paul could say that if he sinned it really wasn't him, it was his flesh. Paul clearly separated the evil in his flesh (mind, soul) from his spiritual man.

 

[chessman]

Provide some scripture that says that the Holy Spirit is an individual. And if it is an individual does he or it take little parts of itself and places these little pieces in all these different Christians?

I found that to be a reasonable question given the OP topic.

I would rather look at the Godhead in a binatarian veiw with God the Son and God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the piece of them that they give to us...their children....it is not really a person.

Binitarian is a term i came across while i was reading and studying some of Michael Heiser's research. It is simply the theological teaching that there two individuals in the Godhead. I think that it fits better with reality

You have yet to explain to me how this individual named the Holy Spirit is also divided into millions of different persons and still remains an individual

Do you understand that you have yet to provide any scripture to support your claims? You have yet to explain how this individual that is you call Mr. Holy Spirit can be divided among millions of persons and still be an individual person? I'm waiting

I found this post providing one Scripture on the question asked:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Not sure that this answers the entire question you have concerning the “personhood†of the Spirit, but it does seem to indicate there are three distinct “something’s†in heaven (not two). Plus there’s these:

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.†(Matthew 4:1-3 ESV)
​

So here we have the persons of Jesus, Spirit and the Devil all mentioned as doing things. So the Spirit can “led†even Jesus, Biblically speaking of course.

When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. (Matthew 10:19-20 ESV)
​

So here Jesus is speaking to his disciples about their spreading His gospel to the world. Jesus tells them the “Spirit of your father†will be doing the “speakingâ€. So we have Jesus-speaking, disciples-hearing, Spirit-speaking and Father mentioned. Note that Jesus could have said to them, I will be speaking through you. Or your Father will be speaking to you. But He doesn’t. So via, Scripture the Spirit at least has this “personhood attribute†of the ability to speak coherently to His disciples, all twelve, an implicitly the Spirit would know what to say and to who and at what time. Sounds pretty “personal†to me. Plus, there’s a high indication that the Spirit could be doing it at the same time in multiple locations since these disciples spread out all over the regions.

So on to the question/confusion of how this can be (biblically speaking) with all the Christians of today, at one time (Biblically speaking of course and not via purely human conjuring).

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
​

…

If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (Galatians 5:18-26 ESV)
​

So, this passage describes “us†(collectively) keeping in step via the Spirit (which we already showed had personal attributes of speaking and leading as a separate person than either Jesus or the Father).
Therefore, I’d say three “persons†is about as good a term as I can think of to use when describing the Triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Knowing of course it’s Amphomorphic language (as all language is concerning God) we humbly applied it to God. Even though, you’re correct. There is no passage in the Bible that says “God is three personsâ€.

 

[Guest]

The soul of man is clearly linked to the spirit but I don't believe the Holy Spirit indwells our minds, surely if He did we would have no more problems with sin, it would be all new and old things would have passed away.

I believe the Holy Spirit does indwell our minds. We would have no more problems with sin if the Holy Spirit indwelled our minds? Well, we still live in a fallen world, and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to renew our minds. When salvation transformation takes place, we are not only cleansed of sin in our body/soul/spirit but also our minds. We need that renewal of our minds because of the fact we live in fallen world. Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Ephesians 4:23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds. Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus. 1 Corinthians 2:16 For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?†But we have the mind of Christ.

If the Holy Spirit didn't indwell our minds, our hearts would never tell our minds how to discern scripture and our minds would never tell our hearts. For example, what's on your mind? The reason that Jesus is on your mind Deborah13 is because of the Holy Spirit that renews your mind to match the spirit of God, and what God thinks and feels.

 

[Deborah13]

I believe the Holy Spirit does indwell our minds. We would have no more problems with sin if the Holy Spirit indwelled our minds? Well, we still live in a fallen world, and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to renew our minds. When salvation transformation takes place, we are not only cleansed of sin in our body/soul/spirit but also our minds. We need that renewal of our minds because of the fact we live in fallen world.

Do you believe that we have an inner man and an outer man?
If so, how do you describe the outer man?
How do you describe the inner man?

Where does the Holy Spirit indwell the inner man or the outer man?

 

[farouk]

I believe the Holy Spirit does indwell our minds. We would have no more problems with sin if the Holy Spirit indwelled our minds? Well, we still live in a fallen world, and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to renew our minds. When salvation transformation takes place, we are not only cleansed of sin in our body/soul/spirit but also our minds. We need that renewal of our minds because of the fact we live in fallen world.

Do you believe that we have an inner man and an outer man?
If so, how do you describe the outer man?
How do you describe the inner man?

Where does the Holy Spirit indwell the inner man or the outer man?

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION] :

I think Romans 8.9 is a relevant verse here. All truly born again believers in the Lord Jesus are indwelt by the Holy Spirit; this involves the inner, spiritual life, but also there is the perspective of redemption being of the body, too. Romans 8.9 doesn't restrict the effect of the Spirit's indwelling to one aspect only, it would seem.

Blessings.

 

[Guest]

I believe the Holy Spirit does indwell our minds. We would have no more problems with sin if the Holy Spirit indwelled our minds? Well, we still live in a fallen world, and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to renew our minds. When salvation transformation takes place, we are not only cleansed of sin in our body/soul/spirit but also our minds. We need that renewal of our minds because of the fact we live in fallen world.

Do you believe that we have an inner man and an outer man?
If so, how do you describe the outer man?
How do you describe the inner man?

Where does the Holy Spirit indwell the inner man or the outer man?

Yes, the Holy Spirit dwells inside our inner man while our outer man is getting older. Your flesh that you see on your body is your outer man. If you walk in the spirit and in God's will, I believe your outer man will reveal holiness. If you walk out of God's will, I believe your outer man will reveal sin. Your inner man consists of your soul/mind/spirit that exists inside of your body. Your mind is connected to your body, no?

I believe the Holy Spirit indwells your mind/soul/spirit, and I believe holiness is shown through the outer man because the Holy Spirit is dwelling inside of you..that's if you're walking according to God's will. Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

but also there is the perspective of redemption being of the body

Oh yes. We are one being, not three separate beings. So as far as redemption goes we are totally redeemed.

 

[farouk]

but also there is the perspective of redemption being of the body

Oh yes. We are one being, not three separate beings. So as far as redemption goes we are totally redeemed.

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION] :

Yes; Romans 8.23 clearly says so.

Blessings.

 

[Deborah13]

Your flesh that you see on your body is your outer man. If you walk in the spirit and in God's will, I believe your outer man will reveal holiness. If you walk out of God's will, I believe your outer man will reveal sin.

If your outer man is only your flesh how would mere skin and bone reveal holiness or sin? The flesh can do nothing without the mind and I could sin in my thoughts and no one would know, except God. So we see the connection and overlapping of mind and flesh?

Your inner man consists of your soul/mind/spirit that exists inside of your body.

This I can see and why you believe that. I see the spirit and the soul connected, overlapping. But the spirit not connected directly to the body only the soul.

Many have described it as being like an egg. Yolk, the white, and the outer shell.

 

[Guest]

Your flesh that you see on your body is your outer man. If you walk in the spirit and in God's will, I believe your outer man will reveal holiness. If you walk out of God's will, I believe your outer man will reveal sin.

If your outer man is only your flesh how would mere skin and bone reveal holiness or sin? The flesh can do nothing without the mind and I could sin in my thoughts and no one would know, except God. So we see the connection and overlapping of mind and flesh?

Your inner man consists of your soul/mind/spirit that exists inside of your body.

This I can see and why you believe that. I see the spirit and the soul connected, overlapping. But the spirit not connected directly to the body only the soul.

Many have described it as being like an egg. Yolk, the white, and the outer shell.

I believe holiness is revealed through good works and sin is revealed through stress and dying. Philippians 3:6-7 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. 7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. The chaos of your sin that is inside of you reveals your fruit. Are you revealing the fruit of the flesh or the fruit of the spirit to your friends, family and co-workers. It's better to repent than to think like the flesh. Your actions reveal your sin. Matthew 15:19-20 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone. Ezekiel 21:24 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Because you have made your guilt to be remembered, in that your transgressions are uncovered, so that in all your deeds your sins appear—because you have come to remembrance, you shall be taken in hand.

The spirit and soul are connected but have different roles in which they play. Why wouldn't you think the spirit isn't connected directly to the body, only the soul. Your soul is inside your body. The spirit and soul are both connected to your body. Are you saying your soul can be at work and your spirit can linger in your home while you're at work? Or does your spirit and soul move accordingly to where you move. I believe the yolk is your soul, the white is your spirit and the outer shell is your flesh. All you need to do is put a head on the bird and you got yourself a born again christian.

 

[Deborah13]

All you need to do is put a head on the bird and you got yourself a born again christian

LOL

I believe the yolk is your soul, the white is your spirit and the outer shell is your flesh.

Ok and I would swap the spirit and the soul. Because I see the soul as the mind (at needs to be renew and tells the body what to do).
And the spirit as being where the Holy Spirit indwells us and speaks to the mind (renewing it) but does not control the flesh and bone body.



I we are so close it's ridiculous and really not important to either of our salvation or sanctification.

The spirit and soul are connected but have different roles in which they play.

I agree.

Why wouldn't you think the spirit isn't connected directly to the body, only the soul.

All animals have souls and bodies, we see this in our pets. They don't need a spirit to use their bodies or make decisions, etc.

Are you saying your soul can be at work and your spirit can linger in your home while you're at work?

Wouldn't that be nice. But alas we are not God. We are one being, not 2 or 3.

Speaking of eggs, there are rotten eggs and there are good eggs.....you're one of the good ones. Bless you, urk. I enjoy your posts. We don't have to agree.

 

[Guest]

Speaking of eggs, there are rotten eggs and there are good eggs.....you're one of the good ones. Bless you, urk. I enjoy your posts. We don't have to agree.

Aww ty, same to you. I can tell your fruits are of the spirit. On a side note, asking whether animals have a spirit of conscience, intuition and communion is a brand new thread. Blessings. ;)

 

[Elijah674]

Perfectly created! Yet not fully 'matured' morally & spiritually. And we see a test right there in the 'Midst of The Garden'! Again, do you not understand that 'supposedly spiritual' folks teach that Adam & Eve were created with an immortal soul?? one that even is 'brainless at death + before!
Psalms 146
[1] Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.
[2] While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
....
[4] His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
And this breath or what satan call's 'immortal' is brain dead with [[NO THOUGHTS!]]

One more from the Holy Spirits Inspiration..

Job 14..
[10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
(if he has the Holy Ghost?? John 3:3-

....
[12] So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
....

[14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
[15] Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee:..'
....

[21] His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

Gen.3
[1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
OK: God said that they would die & satan say no. And most teach that satan is to be believed instead of God.
No, they do not come right out & say God LIED except by their 'teaching' of it.

Note that God also documented in Gen. 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and [man became] a living soul.

OK: Man then became alive & 'living'! (take the breath of God from him & he is what? A dead person or soul)
But that still is not the point to see here. Was Adam Immortal is the question to be [[[DOCUMENTED!]]]??

Immortal mean in all directions! And not subject to death! We find that NO creation of the Godheads has Immortality! NONE!! Now, who do you teach lied, God or satan?? Which do you believe & teach for truth is the question??

1 Tim. 1
[15] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
[16] Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
[17] Now unto the King [eternal, immortal], ...'

And 1 Tim. 6
[14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[16] Who [only ]hath [[immortality]], dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

And satan say's that Eve had Immortality, and most teach his lies for truth! (SICK!)
And not only that, but satan surely has a ball with an eternal hell burning loving 'g'od to boot.

So Lets see what God says about what kept Adam & Eve alive with [His CONDITION for Immortality]? Again

Gen.
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
....

[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Does it take much spiritual insight to understand this?? The ONLY way that from sinful Adam on to have eternal life (again Conditional) was to again be proven faithful to partake of the TREE OF LIFE!

And Rev. 21 last verse on through verse 1-2 of the next chapter documents this:
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev.22
[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
[2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

It is only after this that saved mankind will have once again 'Conditional' Immortality restored. And this time it will have Nah. 1:9 secure by the fires of 'matured' testing.

And in closing this out, there was never, and there are none of mankind which ever had been created with an Immortal soul, regardless of these being the saved ones or the garbage teaching that has been taught about the 'soul' of the lost sinner + maggots' burning eternally that are immortal!

Think!! They would need to be let out of hell every three months to even have the 'healing leaves' let alone to eat of the Tree of Life & the Water of LIFE???

Come on, Matt. 25 has a WAKE UP CALL! Otherwise you will be found in Obad. 1:16 & as seen in Mal. 4:1-4's Eternal documentation! Eternally Blotted from Eternity!

--Elijah

PS: So yes, there are three separate persons in the Godhead!

 

[Elijah674]

God is Immortal (as is the Godhead. Two with an Image that man was patterned after) and the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost is as stated, that God IS A SPIRIT.

OK: Now to be correctly stated we need to find that His angels are 'created' + 'ministering spirits'. Only created mankind have this image. (and because of satans rebellion, we find both good & bad 'spirits' called angels.)

NOW: Are you saying that the tribunal are created with an image as are mankind? That is to far a stretch for me to reach for!

And the 'us' is included as in Immortality??? And if one checks the Holy Spirit out as well, He was active from day one on until Adam fell from Grace. And then Adam's domain was surrendered over to satan. (see Matt. 4:9-10)

It was at about this time that a [now] Adam Holy Spirit/less condemned man, and that was condemned to eternal death, that needed the Godhead's PLAN to restore the fallen race back from satan's fate. And God offered a CONDITIONAL PLAN to Adam & lost mankind on His terms. That include that of once again being Born Again 'spiritually' for another chance to MATURE and be SAFE TO SAVE. Nah. 1:9. (with all provisions IF they would! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9)

And do you remember what the Holy Spirit was to do (one thing) after Christ sent Him Back? But in between this time, we find the only limits of the Godheads POWER to the area where Christ God was at in the O.T. (He was not omni present) Yet, wherever Christ God was at, He was in full mighty working POWER! (just not omnipresent as of yet)

--Elijah