To those who pray to Mary...

[Confusion]

Actually, what my problem with Heidi is is that I know someone who is just like him... He talks about the same ideals and believes... I honestly thought it might be him, but I confronted the man I know and it is not him...
He has even said "The Holy Spirit in me reminds me that I must preach Christ's words everyday"

Now, if You talk to him, he honestly believes that... 100% sincere...

Yet, the one thing I have seen different between them is that he thinks the Catholic Church is a tool for Christians... While it is not necessary, it is a good thing to get closer to Christ if that is what you choose...

Now, both say they have the Holy Spirit in them, and if both being sincere, how can they have a disagreement like that...



Anyway, Gary... Those are all New Testament references... Where are your Old Testament references... You know, the Old Testament, Original works of God before all these New Testament gospels were written...

I think your problem Confusion is that you do not believe what Jesus and Scripture teach.

Honestly, on this site, I have never been given or seen a reason to believe in the New Testament... Let's start there shall we...
Prove to me using the Old Testament that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Confusion]

The Bible says the world was created about 6,000 years ago

It does? Which chapter/verse/passage is that in?

:-?

Count up all the years listed throughout the Old Testament... It totals about 6,000... Starting with Eden and from there on...
Therefore, by Bible accounts, the earth is 6,000 years old.

 

[Gary]

So you agree that the Holy Spirit DOES live in believers. Thanks.

As for the rest of your post, it has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is about praying to Mary. Please start another thread about the topic you want to discuss. I am more than willing to share Scripture with you about Jesus and about the Holy Spirit; the Old Testament and the New Testament.

P.S. There is only one "Gospel"....

 

[William Putnam]

Heidi replied:

It's too bad you have to go through Mary to get to God. What power you give to a human being!!!!

My intercessor is Jesus Christ our Lord. He's the only one who has the power! :angel:

Heidi, would I believe that I also go directly to God in my prayers? in fact, that is my primary direction, to God Himself, directly! but I also appeal to the saints, and especially Mary, the Mother of my Savior, to convey my prayers to her Divine Son.

And my little granddaughter is just fine! PRAISE GOD! And it was from God that she was made whole regardless of who I used as a conduit for my prayers, either directly or through the saints in heaven.

Oh, and by the way, I agree that only God "has the power." For it is in the fulfillment of prayers that comes from God alone. Mary does not heal, but she can appeal to God the the healing takes place.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+



My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages
call me blessed. (Luke 1:46-48)

 

[stovebolts]

I think your problem Confusion is that you do not believe what Jesus and Scripture teach. Heidi is 100% correct.

Gary,

Heidi nor you, nor I nor anyone else on this forum is 100% correct. All we can do is interpret the scripture to the best that God will allow us to understand. Furthermore, it's an embarrasment to scripture when the same scripture can be used on either side of the fence to show the other person wrong.


For my .02 cents, that's only worth about a half of a half of a cent... I see the Catholic and Orthodox proclaiming that they seek God and God primary in their prayers. I hear them all saying that God and Jesus is center to their lives. I also hear them saying that prayer is a good thing and that we need to focus on God in our prayers.

Then I hear them saying that we should be allowed to ask other people to pray for us. I know that every week, we have a prayer list in our bullitin. What I hear them saying, is they take this one more step and ask the saints to pray for them.

Now, the way I see it, that makes perfect logical sense to me. If they are to be condemed for asking a saint to pray for them, then we should be condemned for asking others to pray for us? :-?

The question really becomes, can we find it in scripture that we can ask the saints to pray for us. To bring the Holy Spirit into this argument and judge over anothers salvation shows a lack of understanding of what the Holy Spirit is capable of and puts God in this little tiny box that the holyier than thou can use to control the emotions of those with weak or like minds.

While I'm at it, and since the mods don't seem to regulate the personal attacks on this forum, debate the issue, and not the person. The personal attacks are getting old from everyone. If most on this site can see and have vision. Take three steps outside your heads, and it becomes clear how Satan is manipulating you ALL for his satisfaction as you rip and tear each other apart and for what? I'll tell you what, it's our biggest issue. It's called
PRIDE
VANITY

 

[Heidi]

How do you know what mary thinks about anything, Bill??????

Do you know how I know what Jesus is saying to me? Through scripture!! Scripture tells us what Jesus wants for us! How do you know what Mary wants for you? Just a guess? How do you know she even understood what her Son was talking about? Another guess?? The only thing we have in scripture about Mary's thoughts on her Son is where she says that he is out of his mind! Do you not care what the bible says? Apparently not! Where does the bible say she even received the Holy Spirit? Another guess?

Our pastor discusses at length with us how important it is not to speculate where the bible is silent! This leads to saying things like Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married or that Mary was a virgin all of the her life! The devil has a field day with people who make up scripture or claim to know what these ancient people are like!!

So again, what is Mary like? And why do you give such devotion to someone you don't know? I know my neighbor better than I know Mary and I've only had 1 conversation with her!! Do I pray to my neighbor? Heavens no!

Praying to Mary is not in the bible anywhere! But what do catholics care about the bible? they treat it with contempt and make up their own bible! But again, Paul tells us that those who preach a different gospel than the one he preached are deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ. I believe him 100%!

And as far as thinking that one must preach Christ's words everyday, confusion, One doesn't have to do anything at all once he's under grace. I love to preach Christ's words everyday because I can think of nothing more important than bringing people to Christ. What do you consider important everyday? I shudder to think about it. :o

 

[Heidi]

Apparently those who pray to Mary haven't gotten any closer to know Christ's will through her! What has Mary revealed to you about Jesus? :o What has she said about him that isn't in scripture? What has she told you about herself that you didn't already know? How have you gotten closer to either Mary or Jesus by praying to Mary?

The Holy Spirit is Christ Jesus living in us. We grow closer to Jesus by learning scripture and discerning through the Holy spirit in us. But how do we get closer to Mary?Praying to Mary is like lving with a corpse as a spouse who never talks or communicates! Unless someone expresses himself to us, we don't know one thing about him. Absolutely nothing. I know Mary better than those who pray to her because I believe scripture! But I do not give my allegiance to anyone but Christ. But the catholics split their allegiance with Christ with all sorts of people, most of whom are dead and buried. So much for keeping their relationship with him personal!

The Holy Spirit is from Christ alone. The Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Mary! It is Christ Jesus living in us. So what connection can anyone have to Mary? Since there is no such thing as the Spirit of Mary then how can you know what Mary thinks about anything? The reason we know Christ is through His Holy spirit which is the personhood of Christ in spiritual form that resides inside of us. That is how we are in union with him. So how do you have union with Mary? Where does it say that all those who died in Christ will come and take up residence inside of us????? :o Therefore, how can you have a personal relationship with these people?

So it is clear that catholics do not have a personal relationship,with Christ or they would know the difference between praying to Mary & praying to Jesus. They would know that praying to Mary is futile and meaningless because they don't know her personally. But if they knew Christ personally, then the would know that they have no connection to mary whatsoever. Absolutely none. ;-)

 

[Gary]

(1) The question really becomes, can we find it in scripture that we can ask the saints to pray for us. (2) To bring the Holy Spirit into this argument and judge over anothers salvation shows a lack of understanding of what the Holy Spirit is capable of and puts God in this little tiny box that the holyier than thou can use to control the emotions of those with weak or like minds.

(1) Nope. The question is.... Is there a Scripture which says we should pray TO Mary? I have already referenced one of the most common Roman Catholic prayers TO Mary which says nothing about Jesus or God. It is a prayer to Mary giving your life to her! Would you pray this prayer to Mary? As I said... "I give my life to Jesus." Roman Catholics give their life to Mary. Both can't be right. Which do you choose?

(2) The Holy Spirit is brought into this argument because Roman Catholics claim that they "need help" from Mary. I showed them that the Holy Spirit is the Helper! Do you disagree with those Scriptures I referenced? Maybe you can show me the equivalent Scriptures which show that Mary is also a Helper.... like I showed the attributes of the true Helper, the Holy Spirit. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit after He ascended. What "spirit" did Mary send?

Regards
Gary

 

[Heidi]

The Holy Spirit is the personhood of Christ inside of us. It is not the personhood of Mary! I am fankly embarrassed that catholics can be so easily deceived by the clergy into worhipping Mary. It is bizarre and all born again Christians know it because we know the difference between having a personal relationship with Christ and praying to a vague mist like Mary. Giving their allegiance to Mary is no different than giving it to Jim Jones or David Koresh. Their followers would die for them, just like the catholics would die for Mary. They consider this noble instead of madness. And so did the followers of David Koresh & Jim Jones. And this is precisely why Jesus tells us not to call anyone on earth 'father' and he said nothing about calling Mary our Queen mother! This is again, people worhsip instead of worshipping God alone. But the catholics could care less what Jesus says about anything! The more I hear from catholics on this forum, the more the re-affirm their false teachings and will defend them to the death just like the followers of David Koresh and Jim Jones did.

 

[notapseudonym]

Does God always answer your prayers?

 

[Gary]

(1) Then I hear them saying that we should be allowed to ask other people to pray for us. I know that every week, we have a prayer list in our bullitin. (2) What I hear them saying, is they take this one more step and ask the saints to pray for them.

Now, the way I see it, that makes perfect logical sense to me. If they are to be condemed for asking a saint to pray for them, then we should be condemned for asking others to pray for us?

(1) Sure... ask your friend to pray for you. Note: You do not PRAY to your friend!

(2) No. They pray TO the saints!

There are many reasons the Scriptures forbid praying to Mary and praying to the saints.

a) God is the only proper object of our prayers

Nowhere in Scripture is a prayer of anyone on earth actually addressed to anyone but God. In fact, the only prayer in the Bible addressed to a saint was from hell, and God did not answer it (Luke 16:23-31)! Prayer is an act of religious devotion, and therefore only God is the proper object of such devotion (Revelation 4:11). There are prayers from Genesis to Revelation, but not one is addressed to a saint, angel, or anyone other than a member of the Trinity. Jesus taught us to pray to “Our Father who art in heaven. . . .†The God of Isaiah the prophet emphatically declared: “Turn to me and be safe, all you ends of the earth, for I am God; there is no other!†(Isaiah 45:22). Indeed, there is no other person but God to whom anyone anywhere in the Holy Scriptures ever turned in prayer.

b) It is an idolatrous practice

Prayer is a form of worship, and only God should be worshiped (Exodus 20:3). It is idolatrous to pray to mere human beings or to bow down before them or an image of them or any other creature. The first commandment declares: “You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them†(Exodus 20:3-5). Praying to saints or even bowing down to them are violations of this commandment.

The Bible forbids the practice of making images and bowing down to them or to any creature. When John bowed down to worship “at the feet of the angel†he was rebuked by the angel who said, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets. . . . Worship God†(Revelation 22:9).

c) It is forbidden as witchcraft

The Old Testament condemns all attempts to communicate with the dead along with other condemnations of witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:10-12 Leviticus 20:6 1 Samuel 28:5-18; Isaiah 8:19-20). Those who violated this command were to be put to death. In all of Scripture there is not a single divinely approved instance of a righteous person praying to a departed believerâ€â€not one. Indeed, Saul was condemned for his attempt to contact the dead Samuel (1 Samuel 28). Given the danger of deception and the lack of faith that the practice of necromancy and idolatry evidence, it is not difficult to understand God’s command.

Deuteronomy separates “divination†from one “who consults the dead†and condemns both!

The contention that asking a deceased believer to intercede on our behalf is no different from asking a friend here on earth to pray for us is an unsubstantiated claim. There are substantial differences. For one thing, one is in heaven and the other is on earth. Also, there is a huge difference between asking an earthly friend to pray for us and praying to a dead friend! Finally, friends on earth are in the body and have senses by which they can get our message, friends in heaven do not: they do not have a physical body (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23 Revelation 6:9).

d) It is a practical denial of the mediatorship of Christ

Evangelicals believe that to use any mere human being to mediate with God is an insult to the all-sufficient, divinely appointed mediatorship of Jesus Christ. Paul declared emphatically, “There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human†(1 Timothy 2:5 John 10:9 John 14:6). Hebrews 4:15-16 assures us that in Jesus “we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet without sin.†Because of this we are urged to “confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.â€Â

There is no reason to go to Mary or any other saint with our requests. Indeed, it is the ultimate insult to Christ’s human suffering, mediatorship, and high priestly ministry to go to anyone else for grace or help.

Roman Catholic apologists attempt to avoid the sting of this argument by distinguishing between Christ as the sole mediator and all believers as intercessors. This distinction does not, however, help their cause (of proving we should pray to saints) because all the passages they use are about direct intercession to God, not to other creatures. In Ephesians 2:18, which they cite, it says explicitly that our access in prayer is “to the Father†not to the saints. Nowhere does Scripture state or imply that we should pray to the saints, and the Roman Catholic dogma which affirms infallibly that we should is a good example of putting tradition over Scripture, thus proving how fallible the alleged “infallible†teaching magisterium really is.

e) It is an insult to the intercession of the Holy Spirit

Much of the practical Roman Catholic justification for praying to the saints is based on the seemingly plausible argument that, because of their position in heaven, dead believers may be better able to intercede on our behalf. This is a practical denial of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, whose task it is to do this very thing on our behalf. And who is better able to intercede for us than another Person of the blessed Trinity? The Bible says, “we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings†(Romans 8:26).

Paul adds that through Christ we “have access in one Spirit to the Father†(Ephesians 2:18). Since beyond our own prayers to God the Holy Spirit intercedes for us perfectly “according to God’s will†(Romans 8:27) there is no need to call on anyone else in heaven to do so. It is wrong to expect that any human being could be more efficacious with God the Father than God the Son and God the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:1-2). To think so is to insult his divinely appointed role.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geisler, N. L., & MacKenzie, R. E. (1995).
Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and differences (Page 350).

.

 

[Heidi]

Do you know what, Gary? The catholics could care less. They have contmept for the bible and for Jesus himself in favor of his mother. This is bizarre beyond all reason. But they believe there is safety in numbers just as the Nazi's did. Only the Holy Spirit from God can show them the truth, not us. But we warned them about what Paul said about people who preach a gospel different than the one he preached. But again, they have contempt for his words. So we've done our part. :angel:

 

[William Putnam]

Heidi commented:

How do you know what mary thinks about anything, Bill??????

I have no idea, but it would be interesting to know!

Do you know how I know what Jesus is saying to me? Through scripture!!

Does He rest upon your shoulder, lkke a minature Jesus, and whisper into your ear, Heidi? Why is it that one person will say "Jesus told me this" and another person will say, "Jesus told me that," and the two are often diametrically opposite of each other? If Jesus speaks to all, as you say, why then He must be the God of confusion, as I see a continuous splintering of Protestantism/Evangelicalism/Fundamentalism as the years go by.

Strange indeed...

Scripture tells us what Jesus wants for us!

Does that by any chance include a belief in Jesus in all of His ordinances and commandments? At this moment, I an thinking of John 20:22-23, for example, where Jesus gives his apostles the power to forgive or retain sins. So, if Jesus tells you what He wants, why don't you believe that particular part of scripture?

How do you know what Mary wants for you?

I have a pretty good idea, and that is to follow her Diviine Son.

Just a guess? How do you know she even understood what her Son was talking about?

We don't know, while He was still with us here on earth. But like the mother she was, she certainly followed Him, even to the foot of the cross, where Jesus tells the beloved disciple, "Here is your mother."

I take her as my mother as well...

Another guess?? The only thing we have in scripture about Mary's thoughts on her Son is where she says that he is out of his mind! Do you not care what the bible says? Apparently not! Where does the bible say she even received the Holy Spirit? Another guess?

Where does she say such a thing, Heidi? And how many times have I quoted from the bible, that suddenly you think I don't care what the bible says? Are you serious? Do you doubt that she received the holy Spirit, after all, I believe she was present when the holy Spirit discended on all, including her, at Pentecost.

Why are you putting Mary down as some sort of an embarassment to you anyway?

Our pastor discusses at length with us how important it is not to speculate where the bible is silent! This leads to saying things like Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married or that Mary was a virgin all of the her life! The devil has a field day with people who make up scripture or claim to know what these ancient people are like!!

I know of no doctrine, or even a apocyphal writing that declares such a thing! Recent books and movies? They come and go, and are all refuted and rejected with a howl by all! What of the things scripture says that is not recorded therein that Jesus did? And again, what did the Christians do before the New Testament was written? Oh, the apostles were there. you say? Is everything they did and taught in scripture, Heidi?

So again, what is Mary like? And why do you give such devotion to someone you don't know? I know my neighbor better than I know Mary and I've only had 1 conversation with her!! Do I pray to my neighbor? Heavens no!

I know of Mary, Heidi, handed down by the writings of the early fathers, the frescoes of early Christians on tombs and the walls of ancient catacombs, and of course, the rich teachings of the only Christian Church around for the first 1500 years of Christian history!

Praying to Mary is not in the bible anywhere! But what do catholics care about the bible? they treat it with contempt and make up their own bible! But again, Paul tells us that those who preach a different gospel than the one he preached are deceitful workmen masquerading as apostles of Christ. I believe him 100%!

Neither is the specific (I should say specifically defined) doctrine of the Holy Trinity in scripture, Heidi.

And as far as thinking that one must preach Christ's words everyday, confusion, One doesn't have to do anything at all once he's under grace. I love to preach Christ's words everyday because I can think of nothing more important than bringing people to Christ. What do you consider important everyday? I shudder to think about it. :o

Well, I pray a lot everyday, heidi, and I scower the internet for this and other forums I am actively posting in. Is that the same as to "preach christ's words everyday," heidi?

Confusion can obviously speak for himself...

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Prayer for Peace by Pope John Paul II

O God, Creator of the universe, who extends your paternal concern over every
creature and guides the events of history in the goal of salvation, we acknowledge
your fatherly love when you break the resistance of mankind and, in a world torn
by strife and discord, you make us ready for reconciliation. Renew for us the
wonders of your mercy: send forth your Spirit that He may work in the intimacy
of hearts, that enemies may begin to dialogue, that adversaries may shake hands
and peoples may encounter one another in harmony. May all commit themselves to the
sincere search for true peace which will extinguish all arguments, for charity
which overcomes hatred, for pardon which disarms revenge. Amen.

 

[notapseudonym]

Heidi, could it be, not so much that Catholics have no respect and could care less what God teaches us, as protestants refuse to listen and comprehend?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

It's amazing- and appaling- that guys with doctorates cannot sort out the distinction between "pray to" and "pray with."

It would seem, from an evolutionary standpoint, that just as some are unable to discern the color red from green, others are incapable of distinguishing the word 'with' from 'to.'

Tragic biological defect, this one- it keeps many locked in the grip of Montanist heresy.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Heidi,

First I want to say for the most part I usually agree with everything you say, however; the following I have a problem with:

…The catholics could care less. They have contmept for the bible and for Jesus himself in favor of his mother. This is bizarre beyond all reason. But they believe there is safety in numbers just as the Nazi's did…

It seems to me you are making a generalization. Is it true to say that many Catholics listen more to the “church†then the Bible…yes. Is it true to say that many Catholics favour Mary over Jesus…yes. Now is it true to say that all Catholics listen more to the “church†and put Mary over Jesus…NO.

I personally have a big problem with many of the Catholic traditions, practices, extra books in the Bible, and such, however; I am certain that there are many Catholics that read their Bible and put Jesus first. The only thing that Christians should be concerned about is whether a brother or sister in Christ believes in the essential doctrine.

 

[William Putnam]

It's amazing- and appaling- that guys with doctorates cannot sort out the distinction between "pray to" and "pray with."

It would seem, from an evolutionary standpoint, that just as some are unable to discern the color red from green, others are incapable of distinguishing the word 'with' from 'to.'

Tragic biological defect, this one- it keeps many locked in the grip of Montanist heresy.

Hah! I wonder if I were to ask you to pray for me, am I not "appealing to you" to do so? Notice the word, "to."

Trips them up every time! :roll:

BTW, love that picture! Looks like a cross between the Three Musketeers, The "Red" Baron and...and...who dat third guy? Ah, the English Cardinal that prosecuted Joan of Arc?

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!

 

[Gary]

Still unanswered by Bill (the Roman Catholic) and OC (the guy with the flyer's cap)....

Here is a prayer that an ex-Catholic young girl was asked to pray before she came to the knowledge and saving-faith of a Biblically-based Christian faith: .

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to Thee.
And to show my devotion to Thee,
I offer Thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.

Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as Thy property and possession.

Amen

Now do you also offer this prayer to Mary? Bill the Catholic, OC the flyer... do you also pray this prayer?

What about....

• I offer myself entirely to Jesus
  I also devote myself to Jesus
  I also dedicate my day to Jesus
  I also offer my eyes to Jesus
  I also offer my ears to Jesus
  I also offer my mouth to Jesus
  I also offer my brain and thoughts to Jesus
  I also offer my heart to Jesus
  I also offer my whole being to Jesus, without reserve
  I also pray to Jesus to keep me
  I also pray to Jesus to guard me
  I also proclaim that I am Jesus' property
  I also proclaim that I am Jesus' possession
  I also proclaim that I am a slave to Jesus

So which is it? Which do you pray in the morning? Which do you think is more Biblical?


:-?

 

[William Putnam]

Still unanswered by Bill (the Roman Catholic) and OC (the guy with the flyer's cap)....

Here is a prayer that an ex-Catholic young girl was asked to pray before she came to the knowledge and saving-faith of a Biblically-based Christian faith: .

My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to Thee.
And to show my devotion to Thee,
I offer Thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.

Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as Thy property and possession.

Amen

Now do you also offer this prayer to Mary? Bill the Catholic, OC the flyer... do you also pray this prayer?

What about....

• I offer myself entirely to Jesus
  I also devote myself to Jesus
  I also dedicate my day to Jesus
  I also offer my eyes to Jesus
  I also offer my ears to Jesus
  I also offer my mouth to Jesus
  I also offer my brain and thoughts to Jesus
  I also offer my heart to Jesus
  I also offer my whole being to Jesus, without reserve
  I also pray to Jesus to keep me
  I also pray to Jesus to guard me
  I also proclaim that I am Jesus' property
  I also proclaim that I am Jesus' possession
  I also proclaim that I am a slave to Jesus

So which is it? Which do you pray in the morning? Which do you think is more Biblical?


:-?

Gary, I have absolutely no problem with either prayer!

For you see, the first prayer is nothing at all, were it not for the Divine Son born of her, His mother.

It is that simple, Gary.

In fact, why do you guys have such a hissy fit over our honor of the very Mother of the Savior that shed His blood on the cross?

I could pray both prayers, in fact, and please notice the prayer of Pope John Paul II I will give in my "tagline" below and see if that get's you all excited and worried all over again.

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

Prayer for Peace by Pope John Paul II

O God, Creator of the universe, who extends your paternal concern over every
creature and guides the events of history in the goal of salvation, we acknowledge
your fatherly love when you break the resistance of mankind and, in a world torn
by strife and discord, you make us ready for reconciliation. Renew for us the
wonders of your mercy: send forth your Spirit that He may work in the intimacy
of hearts, that enemies may begin to dialogue, that adversaries may shake hands
and peoples may encounter one another in harmony. May all commit themselves to the
sincere search for true peace which will extinguish all arguments, for charity
which overcomes hatred, for pardon which disarms revenge. Amen.

 

[Confusion]

a) God is the only proper object of our prayers

Why not Chastise Heidi Gary?

He prays to Jesus... Not to God... The scriptures gives no support to a "Trinity" yet... You completely pledge yourself to this Jesus... Pledge yourself to God then, not this Jesus you speak of.
You openly acknowledge he is not God with your acceptance with Scripture... Yet you dedicate yourself to him?

I offer myself entirely to God
I also devote myself to God
I also dedicate my day to God
I also offer my eyes to God
I also offer my ears to God
I also offer my mouth to God
I also offer my brain and thoughts to God
I also offer my heart to God
I also offer my whole being to God, without reserve
I also pray to God to keep me
I also pray to God to guard me
I also proclaim that I am God's property
I also proclaim that I am God's possession
I also proclaim that I am a slave to God


There you go... Pray that.

Also, please do not even say:

Still unanswered by Bill (the Roman Catholic) and OC (the guy with the flyer's cap)....

I've addressed a question 4 times... yet unanswered. You began to talk about it then disrregarded it.