StoveBolts said:
(1) Then I hear them saying that we should be allowed to ask other people to pray for us. I know that every week, we have a prayer list in our bullitin. (2) What I hear them saying, is they take this one more step and ask the saints to pray for them.
Now, the way I see it, that makes perfect logical sense to me. If they are to be condemed for asking a saint to pray for them, then we should be condemned for asking others to pray for us?
(1) Sure...
ask your friend to pray for you. Note: You do not
PRAY to your friend!
(2) No. They
pray TO the saints!
There are many reasons the Scriptures forbid praying to Mary and praying to the saints.
a) God is the only proper object of our prayers
Nowhere in Scripture is a prayer of anyone on earth actually addressed to anyone but God. In fact, the only prayer in the Bible addressed to a saint was from hell, and God did not answer it (Luke 16:23-31)! Prayer is an act of religious devotion, and therefore only God is the proper object of such devotion (Revelation 4:11). There are prayers from Genesis to Revelation, but not one is addressed to a saint, angel, or anyone other than a member of the Trinity. Jesus taught us to pray to “Our Father who art in heaven. . . .†The God of Isaiah the prophet emphatically declared: “Turn to me and be safe, all you ends of the earth, for I am God; there is no other!†(Isaiah 45:22). Indeed, there is no other person but God to whom anyone anywhere in the Holy Scriptures ever turned in prayer.
b) It is an idolatrous practice
Prayer is a form of worship, and only God should be worshiped (Exodus 20:3). It is idolatrous to pray to mere human beings or to bow down before them or an image of them or any other creature. The first commandment declares: “You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them†(Exodus 20:3-5). Praying to saints or even bowing down to them are violations of this commandment.
The Bible forbids the practice of making images and bowing down to them or to any creature. When John bowed down to worship “at the feet of the angel†he was rebuked by the angel who said, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets. . . . Worship God†(Revelation 22:9).
c) It is forbidden as witchcraft
The Old Testament condemns all attempts to communicate with the dead along with other condemnations of witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:10-12 Leviticus 20:6 1 Samuel 28:5-18; Isaiah 8:19-20). Those who violated this command were to be put to death. In all of Scripture there is not a single divinely approved instance of a righteous person praying to a departed believerâ€â€not one. Indeed, Saul was condemned for his attempt to contact the dead Samuel (1 Samuel 28). Given the danger of deception and the lack of faith that the practice of necromancy and idolatry evidence, it is not difficult to understand God’s command.
Deuteronomy separates “divination†from one “who consults the dead†and condemns both!
The contention that asking a deceased believer to intercede on our behalf is no different from asking a friend here on earth to pray for us is an unsubstantiated claim. There are substantial differences. For one thing, one is in heaven and the other is on earth. Also, there is a huge difference between asking an earthly friend to pray for us and praying to a dead friend! Finally, friends on earth are in the body and have senses by which they can get our message, friends in heaven do not: they do not have a physical body (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23 Revelation 6:9).
d) It is a practical denial of the mediatorship of Christ
Evangelicals believe that to use any mere human being to mediate with God is an insult to the all-sufficient, divinely appointed mediatorship of Jesus Christ. Paul declared emphatically, “There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human†(1 Timothy 2:5 John 10:9 John 14:6). Hebrews 4:15-16 assures us that in Jesus “we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet without sin.†Because of this we are urged to “confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.â€Â
There is no reason to go to Mary or any other saint with our requests. Indeed, it is the ultimate insult to Christ’s human suffering, mediatorship, and high priestly ministry to go to anyone else for grace or help.
Roman Catholic apologists attempt to avoid the sting of this argument by distinguishing between Christ as the sole mediator and all believers as intercessors. This distinction does not, however, help their cause (of proving we should pray to saints) because all the passages they use are about direct intercession to God, not to other creatures. In Ephesians 2:18, which they cite, it says explicitly that our access in prayer is “to the Father†not to the saints. Nowhere does Scripture state or imply that we should pray to the saints, and the Roman Catholic dogma which affirms infallibly that we should is a good example of putting tradition over Scripture, thus proving how fallible the alleged “infallible†teaching magisterium really is.
e) It is an insult to the intercession of the Holy Spirit
Much of the practical Roman Catholic justification for praying to the saints is based on the seemingly plausible argument that, because of their position in heaven, dead believers may be better able to intercede on our behalf. This is a practical denial of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, whose task it is to do this very thing on our behalf. And who is better able to intercede for us than another Person of the blessed Trinity? The Bible says, “we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings†(Romans 8:26).
Paul adds that through Christ we “have access in one Spirit to the Father†(Ephesians 2:18). Since beyond our own prayers to God the Holy Spirit intercedes for us perfectly “according to God’s will†(Romans 8:27) there is no need to call on anyone else in heaven to do so. It is wrong to expect that any human being could be more efficacious with God the Father than God the Son and God the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:1-2). To think so is to insult his divinely appointed role.
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Geisler, N. L., & MacKenzie, R. E. (1995).
Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and differences (Page 350).
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But we warned them about what Paul said about people who preach a gospel different than the one he preached. But again, they have contempt for his words. So we've done our part. :angel: