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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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T
thessalonian
Guest
I'm not countering you. I said I agreed with you. I had in mind soth and others when I posted it. I just choose your post to quote because it was related.
S
Sothenes
Guest
The word "fear" has three definitions for this greek word. Discretion, Avoidance and Dread. In the sense of Melchisedec, someone would have to explain to me why Melchisedec had agony (dread).
I suppose if you know what was in the cup of God (wrath poured out without admixture) with dregs in it, I think that any man would fear (reverence) God.
Blueletter Bible offers some support for the word "agony" and it is possible because Jesus wept that the Blue Letter Bible says:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/ ... -3011.html
1) a struggle for victory
a) gymnastic exercise, wrestling
2) of severe mental struggles and emotions, agony, anguish
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
I "fear" this thread has gone off-track? :-D
John.3:38 - who is speaking, human Jesus or God Jesus?
John.3:38 - who is speaking, human Jesus or God Jesus?
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
vic said:
My 2nd choice then would be John.6:38
:
T
thessalonian
Guest
BradtheImpaler said:vic said:
My 2nd choice then would be John.6:38
38: For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;
The problem you have is your either/or thinking. Was Jesus in heaven before? Yes, as God, so the passage makes perfect sense. Most certainly he is speaking the passage using his humanity. I think the passage poses more problems for you than for us.
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
Jesus, "as God", was the one in heaven. Jesus says, "I came down from heaven" which has to be Jesus/as God. Continuing statement, in context, NOT TO DO MY OWN WILL. It was not the will of the one who came down from heaven (whom you name as God). Therefore, whoever Jesus was "in heaven", he was not God (YHWH) unless God is seriously schizophrenic.
Trinitarians simply imagine they have the right to interject the "humanity" of Jesus wherever they need to to make all passages fit their premise. This is not proper or honest exegesis.
S
Solo
Guest
Who is Jehovah?
G
gingercat
Guest
Solo said:
Jehovah is God and Creator of universe and all living beings.
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
Solo said:
Jesus' Father, according to the NT.
S
Solo
Guest
Jehovah is God almighty, and Jehovah is the Word in the flesh, Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that among those born of women, there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, but that the least in heaven will be greater than he.
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11
According to Matthew, Mark, and Luke, John the Baptist quoted Isaiah when proclaiming that he was the voice in the wilderness preparing the way of the Lord.
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Matthew 3:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mark 1:1-3
... the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Luke 3:2b-6
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3-5
Notice in the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, John the Baptist was the voice crying in the wilderness, preparing the way of the Lord, Jesus. Isaiah says "the voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." The Hebrew word used by Isaiah in this verse for LORD is יהוהtransliterated Y@hovah, Jehovah. The KJV uses translates this Hebrew word as LORD 6510 times, GOD 4 times, JEHOVAH 4 times, and 1 variant. The Hebrew word used by Isaiah in this verse for God is לאלהינו׃ translated transliterated 'elohiym, Eloheem.
The definition of Jehovah is:
Therefore, John the Baptist was the voice crying in the wilderness preparing the way of the LORD, JEHOVAH, JESUS CHRIST; the latchet of whose shoes John the Baptist felt that he was not worthy to unloose.
Jesus is Jehovah God.
Jesus said that among those born of women, there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, but that the least in heaven will be greater than he.
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11
According to Matthew, Mark, and Luke, John the Baptist quoted Isaiah when proclaiming that he was the voice in the wilderness preparing the way of the Lord.
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Matthew 3:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mark 1:1-3
... the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Luke 3:2b-6
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isaiah 40:3-5
Notice in the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, John the Baptist was the voice crying in the wilderness, preparing the way of the Lord, Jesus. Isaiah says "the voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." The Hebrew word used by Isaiah in this verse for LORD is יהוהtransliterated Y@hovah, Jehovah. The KJV uses translates this Hebrew word as LORD 6510 times, GOD 4 times, JEHOVAH 4 times, and 1 variant. The Hebrew word used by Isaiah in this verse for God is לאלהינו׃ translated transliterated 'elohiym, Eloheem.
The definition of Jehovah is:
- [list:04124][list:04124]"the existing One"
Therefore, John the Baptist was the voice crying in the wilderness preparing the way of the LORD, JEHOVAH, JESUS CHRIST; the latchet of whose shoes John the Baptist felt that he was not worthy to unloose.
Jesus is Jehovah God.
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
Solo,
Please address the thread's question before switching to something else, unless you are ready to concede that the 2nd Person of the Trinity, in Jn.6:38, clearly stated he had not come down from heaven to do HIS will. In which case I will gladly and easily answer your new question.
Please address the thread's question before switching to something else, unless you are ready to concede that the 2nd Person of the Trinity, in Jn.6:38, clearly stated he had not come down from heaven to do HIS will. In which case I will gladly and easily answer your new question.
I
Imagican
Guest
There is NO doubt that one can 'pick and choose' scripture to make a 'trinitarian point'. But, when scripture is 'taken as a whole', there IS no indication of 'trinity'. One is FORCED to read 'trinity' INTO the Word rather than discern the Word itself.
There is ONLY ONE FATHER folks and the Father IS God. He is the God of Christ and OUR God. Christ IS the Son of God. To try and MAKE Christ God Himself is to take AWAY from what Christ Himself offered. Isn't it OBVIOUS that 'trinity' MUST be 'man-made' and therefore of NO effect.
Look, to worship Christ as ANYTHING other than WHAT He IS, is to 'falsely' worship. To 'turn' Christ into 'something' that He is NOT is to void an understanding of what He offered even. Christ may CERTAINLY BE WORSHIPED; but AS the Son of God, NOT God Himself. God IS the Father, Christ IS the Son. And it doesn't take 'rocket science' to figure this out.
Then when one goes back and begins to understand through just a 'BRIEF' study of the history behind 'trinity', it becomes perfectly obvious that this was a 'man-made' doctrine based on a 'previous' understanding of pagan deity.
The 'triune' nature of gods PREDATES Judaism by thousands of years. It dates ALL the way back to the Babylonians. Now, since neither GOD, His Son, or the apostles chosen by God and His Son EVER taught 'trinity', doesn't it become IMMEDIATELY suspect in it's inception into Christianity? I doubt that MANY that accept this 'false doctrine' EVER even questioned it's validity upon their introduction to it. I am well aware of how difficult it can be to realize that what one has accepted as FACT, IS in fact, untrue. Denial does NOT change the 'truth'.
There is NO 'trinity' except in the carnal minds of men that 'choose' to follow this 'falsity'. And as the Bible states, 'God WILL offer strong delusion so that it will be believed. This is obvious in the efforts put forth by those that accept this doctrine. They WANT to believe it SO bad that they will go to absolutely EXTREME efforts to 'try' and support it. The funny thing is; they have to 'alter' the meaning behind scripture to do it. Let it go folks.
Want to see your relationship 'GROW' like NEVER before. Accept that there is ONLY ONE God and worship HIM as such. Accept that there is ONLY ONE SON, and worship Him as such. By doing so, one is able to 'do' as God has willed. Otherwise, to place Christ in a position of worship that He CANNOT be, is nothing short of 'creating a 'false' Christ'.
Brad, you have certainly placed them in a position that makes them extremely uncomfortable. I have yet to hear an answer to your question that has any validity to it whatsoever. They are 'quick' to try and re-direct your question into 'other' points, instead of simply offering a substantial answer to your original question. Understandable since this doctrine has few points that can be used in it's defense. Yet there is a 'whole book' full of information and actual statements that 'prove' that 'trinity' is NOT inspired from God OR His Son.
There is ONLY ONE FATHER folks and the Father IS God. He is the God of Christ and OUR God. Christ IS the Son of God. To try and MAKE Christ God Himself is to take AWAY from what Christ Himself offered. Isn't it OBVIOUS that 'trinity' MUST be 'man-made' and therefore of NO effect.
Look, to worship Christ as ANYTHING other than WHAT He IS, is to 'falsely' worship. To 'turn' Christ into 'something' that He is NOT is to void an understanding of what He offered even. Christ may CERTAINLY BE WORSHIPED; but AS the Son of God, NOT God Himself. God IS the Father, Christ IS the Son. And it doesn't take 'rocket science' to figure this out.
Then when one goes back and begins to understand through just a 'BRIEF' study of the history behind 'trinity', it becomes perfectly obvious that this was a 'man-made' doctrine based on a 'previous' understanding of pagan deity.
The 'triune' nature of gods PREDATES Judaism by thousands of years. It dates ALL the way back to the Babylonians. Now, since neither GOD, His Son, or the apostles chosen by God and His Son EVER taught 'trinity', doesn't it become IMMEDIATELY suspect in it's inception into Christianity? I doubt that MANY that accept this 'false doctrine' EVER even questioned it's validity upon their introduction to it. I am well aware of how difficult it can be to realize that what one has accepted as FACT, IS in fact, untrue. Denial does NOT change the 'truth'.
There is NO 'trinity' except in the carnal minds of men that 'choose' to follow this 'falsity'. And as the Bible states, 'God WILL offer strong delusion so that it will be believed. This is obvious in the efforts put forth by those that accept this doctrine. They WANT to believe it SO bad that they will go to absolutely EXTREME efforts to 'try' and support it. The funny thing is; they have to 'alter' the meaning behind scripture to do it. Let it go folks.
Want to see your relationship 'GROW' like NEVER before. Accept that there is ONLY ONE God and worship HIM as such. Accept that there is ONLY ONE SON, and worship Him as such. By doing so, one is able to 'do' as God has willed. Otherwise, to place Christ in a position of worship that He CANNOT be, is nothing short of 'creating a 'false' Christ'.
Brad, you have certainly placed them in a position that makes them extremely uncomfortable. I have yet to hear an answer to your question that has any validity to it whatsoever. They are 'quick' to try and re-direct your question into 'other' points, instead of simply offering a substantial answer to your original question. Understandable since this doctrine has few points that can be used in it's defense. Yet there is a 'whole book' full of information and actual statements that 'prove' that 'trinity' is NOT inspired from God OR His Son.
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
The "now Jesus is speaking as God/now he's speaking as man" explanations are an embarassing contrivance. First they assume he's God (which is the point under debate) then they simply attribute any statement he made, which indicates he is not God, to the human nature. How convenient. If allowed this freedom of random exegisis, one could "prove" almost any doctrine they dreamt up. Jesus speaks as God in one verse and a man in the next. Sometimes he even does a "Edgar Bergen/Charlie McCarthy" in the midst of a sentence, as in John.6:38.
Perhaps GodJesus was drinking a glass of water in the spiritual realm when ManJesus (figuratively sitting on GodJesus's lap) said...
"Why do you call me good, none is good except one - God".
Too bad the comedic value went right over the head of his hearers :bday:
S
Solo
Guest
The Word of God clearly shows Jesus, the Spirit, and Jehovah as being on in the same. Those who disagree are not born of God, and cannot see the truth revealed by the Spirit of God.
I suggest that each of those who know not God, examine themselves recognizing that they were never born of God. Unless there is a time where one can point to this born of God process, they are not born again.
I suggest that each of those who know not God, examine themselves recognizing that they were never born of God. Unless there is a time where one can point to this born of God process, they are not born again.
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
Solo said:
Great argument, Solo. You are right because you are "born of God" and whoever doesn't agree with you is not. And how do we know you are born of God? Because you "parrot" a certain dogma that you were taught and did not receive by revelation? Since you bring it up, would you allow yourself to be "examined" according to the Word of God to determine if you are truly born of God?
S
Solo
Guest
BradtheImpaler said:
Instead of being opposed to the doctrine of being born of God as Jesus teaches, you should submit to His authority as the Head of the "called out ones", and ask for wisdom and understanding. He will deliver you from any and all deceptions that may have you bound.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
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I
Imagican
Guest
Solo,
And THAT my friend is EXACTLY what God gave to Christ to GIVE to US; The Word. You would have others believe that the 'Word' is NOTHING other than Christ Himself, ignoring that the Word came FROM the Father.
Once again, beware of who you judge according to 'righteousness'. For how we choose to judge is how we too WILL be judged.
I say this not to 'chastise' but to remind. We are certainly able to discern those that follow and those that don't, but we are NOT capable of judging who will or will not be allowed into heaven. That is strictly reserved for the Father and the Son.
I will certainly defend my few that 'trinity' is man-made. I will NOT however, state that those that believe in it are LOST. I will NOT use this type of prodding for this is NOT formulated through a Spirit of Love. Mine is but to forgive my brothers and sisters as I wish to BE FORGIVEN.
And THAT my friend is EXACTLY what God gave to Christ to GIVE to US; The Word. You would have others believe that the 'Word' is NOTHING other than Christ Himself, ignoring that the Word came FROM the Father.
Once again, beware of who you judge according to 'righteousness'. For how we choose to judge is how we too WILL be judged.
I say this not to 'chastise' but to remind. We are certainly able to discern those that follow and those that don't, but we are NOT capable of judging who will or will not be allowed into heaven. That is strictly reserved for the Father and the Son.
I will certainly defend my few that 'trinity' is man-made. I will NOT however, state that those that believe in it are LOST. I will NOT use this type of prodding for this is NOT formulated through a Spirit of Love. Mine is but to forgive my brothers and sisters as I wish to BE FORGIVEN.