True Acts 2:38 Christians will not go through the Great Tribulation

[Brother Mike]

Please show us what you're talking about here, how that this takes place after the tribulation and how you are coming up with that.

Paul never gave end time events. He gave what would happen with the Church, as the Church was the His focus. Makes it sort of hard to piece things together because things hinge on a few scriptures and their interpretation.

However, I don't care for the title of the thread being true acts 2:38 Christians will make some Pre-trib rapture, as it insinuates that unless your speaking in tongues, you get left behind anyway which is a bunch of nonsense. I wish everyone prayed in tongues, as I do. However, it's by their fruit we know them, not by their tongues they are praying in.

Mike.

 

[turnorburn]

Where's the OP and where's the answer to my question?

tob

 

[TOG]

So how did the church get to heaven in Rev 19 before the coming of The Lord ?

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here, since I don't see the word "church" anywhere in that chapter. Could you please quote the verse or verses you are referring to?

Also, what makes people believe that we're meeting The Lord in the air and then coming back to earth?

In the ancient middle east, elders used to sit at the gates of each walled city. They acted as a type of border guard, keeping track of who went in and out of the city. When an honored guest, such as a governor or a king came to a city, the elders would leave their post at the gate, go out to meet the guest and escort him back to the city. The farther out they went, the more honor they showed the guest. When the rightful king of this earth comes to establish his kingdom, we will honor him by going out to meet him and escorting him back to earth.

 

[JLB]

This is why the translators added................... "That day shall not come unless." First (Adverb) means chiefly first. First in a place of order. (Proton) So, Falling away, must come before the son of perdition is revealed.

:shocked!

No what the bible really says.... is just the opposite of what is says.:tongue

Because the whatchamacalit "female noun" don't really mean that, it means this.....:nod

Oh, yeah now I get it!

When Jesus said AFTER the tribulation, He really meant BEFORE. That s secret agent code for.... Greek Female Noun special meaning talk...

Yeah, now it all makes sense Brother Mike. Shucks, I sure am glade you came along and splained the FEMALE noun secret decoder spy terminology to me.

I would still be here thinkin the bible meant what it said.

Thanks again Brother Mike...:crazy


JLB

 

[Eventide]

So how did the church get to heaven in Rev 19 before the coming of The Lord ?

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here, since I don't see the word "church" anywhere in that chapter. Could you please quote the verse or verses you are referring to?

It's true that Revelation 19 does not mention the word church, although of course it does mention the marriage of the Lamb. So we need to connect other portions of scripture to find out who the bride of Christ is... for starters we have Eph 5 where Paul speaks of the great mystery of a man leaving his father and mother and being joined to his wife, and Paul tells us that he is speaking of Christ ad the church.

The story just mentioned in Gen 24 is another affirmation, for in the volume of the book it is written of Me says The Lord. Note how that Gen 22 is the story of Abraham taking his only begotten son to the mountain where he is to sacrifice him there... then in Gen 23 Sarah dies... She is a type of Israel, and then in 24 Abraham sends his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son...

All miraculous stories which tell the glorious story even today, in living and powerful ways.

Also, what makes people believe that we're meeting The Lord in the air and then coming back to earth?

In the ancient middle east, elders used to sit at the gates of each walled city. They acted as a type of border guard, keeping track of who went in and out of the city. When an honored guest, such as a governor or a king came to a city, the elders would leave their post at the gate, go out to meet the guest and escort him back to the city. The farther out they went, the more honor they showed the guest. When the rightful king of this earth comes to establish his kingdom, we will honor him by going out to meet him and escorting him back to earth.

I would think that it's best to stick with scriptures to see these things. Do you have scriptural affirmation that The Lord is going to meet the church in the air and then come right back to earth ?

In the Gen 24 story, Rebekah is traveling to where Isaac is, and when they meet he takes her into his mother's tent.

Paul tells us who the mother of us all is... And that's the Jerusalem which is above. Another affirmation that the marriage of the Lamb takes place in heaven and not on earth.

 

[Eventide]

Please show us what you're talking about here, how that this takes place after the tribulation and how you are coming up with that.

Paul never gave end time events. He gave what would happen with the Church, as the Church was the His focus. Makes it sort of hard to piece things together because things hinge on a few scriptures and their interpretation.

However, I don't care for the title of the thread being true acts 2:38 Christians will make some Pre-trib rapture, as it insinuates that unless your speaking in tongues, you get left behind anyway which is a bunch of nonsense. I wish everyone prayed in tongues, as I do. However, it's by their fruit we know them, not by their tongues they are praying in.

Mike.

That's why I'm asking... I agree that the title of this thread isn't the best... I wonder what happened to the other thread about the rapture.

 

[JLB]

Weird! Everyone no matter where I've asked has failed to answer my question "The Mark" before or after the rapture, everyone consists of those that adhere to the rapture theory..

tob

Before.

The resurrection of the dead happens before the Rapture.

The Resurrection of the dead happens when Jesus returns at the end of the age.

The Resurrection of the dead happens on the Last Day!

The mark of the beast happens before the Rapture, as the Rapture happens after the Resurrection of the dead.


1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,[Resurrection & Rapture] we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.




JLB

 

[TOG]

In the ancient middle east, elders used to sit at the gates of each walled city. They acted as a type of border guard, keeping track of who went in and out of the city. When an honored guest, such as a governor or a king came to a city, the elders would leave their post at the gate, go out to meet the guest and escort him back to the city. The farther out they went, the more honor they showed the guest. When the rightful king of this earth comes to establish his kingdom, we will honor him by going out to meet him and escorting him back to earth.

I would think that it's best to stick with scriptures to see these things. Do you have scriptural affirmation that The Lord is going to meet the church in the air and then come right back to earth ? In the Gen 24 story, Rebekah is traveling to where Isaac is, and when they meet he takes her into his mother's tent. Paul tells us who the mother of us all is... And that's the Jerusalem which is above. Another affirmation that the marriage of the Lamb takes place in heaven and not on earth.

The Bible did not appear out of a vacuum. The basic message of salvation is simple enough that anyone can understand it without any formal training or education, but if we want to understand the deeper things in Scripture, it can be helpful and sometimes even necessary to know something of the culture, history, world-view and language behind the Bible. Some things simply cannot be known except from extra-biblical sources. for example, the dimensions of the ark of the covenant, the tabernacle and Solomon's temple are all given in cubits, but there is no definition anywhere in the Bible of how long a cubit is. If we want to know how big these things were, we need to go outside the Bible to find out.

The same applies to elders. Elders are mentioned in nearly 200 verses in both Old and New Testaments, but there is no explanation anywhere in the Bible of what they did. To know that, we have to look outside the Bible. Once we understand who the elders were and our position as spiritual elders of the earth, then our going to meet the Lord in the air and escorting him back to earth makes perfect sense.

 

[Brother Mike]

No what the bible really says.... is just the opposite of what is says.

Because the whatchamacalit "female noun" don't really mean that, it means this.....

JBL, you have no issues with the Greek when it comes to a point you need to prove, now you forget suddenly what a Greek Female noun is............ That is so convenient when you just knew exactly a few days ago.

Your Hurtin me here Brother... just hurting me. Going to by you that "Babies First Greek coloring book, YEA!!!!" If you just get your post to pre your Word knowledge would be almost perfect. I guess we all have flaws to work on .. eh

Attention Everyone!!!!

The op should really be here. His stance was more than just some pre-trib rapture. His stance is that you and I get left behind if we don't believe like He does. That means ya all have to be some tongue talk'in Christians and your women need to wear long dresses to mow grass. If you wear a ring, you get left behind, a Necklace and There is no such thing as the Trinity!!!! Trinity is Hersey, so if you believe in that you are not getting Raptured.

Just posting here trying to defend any positions sort of makes me... ehhhhhh because I don't agree at all with the OP on most everything. I know there was a Pre-Trib Post trib hang'in around here somewhere though. We should merge or move over to that one as I don't want anyone getting the wrong impression about us.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

No what the bible really says.... is just the opposite of what is says.

Because the whatchamacalit "female noun" don't really mean that, it means this.....

JBL, you have no issues with the Greek when it comes to a point you need to prove, now you forget suddenly what a Greek Female noun is............ That is so convenient when you just knew exactly a few days ago.

Your Hurtin me here Brother... just hurting me. Going to by you that "Babies First Greek coloring book, YEA!!!!" If you just get your post to pre your Word knowledge would be almost perfect. I guess we all have flaws to work on .. eh

Attention Everyone!!!!

The op should really be here. His stance was more than just some pre-trib rapture. His stance is that you and I get left behind if we don't believe like He does. That means ya all have to be some tongue talk'in Christians and your women need to wear long dresses to mow grass. If you wear a ring, you get left behind, a Necklace and There is no such thing as the Trinity!!!! Trinity is Hersey, so if you believe in that you are not getting Raptured.

Just posting here trying to defend any positions sort of makes me... ehhhhhh because I don't agree at all with the OP on most everything. I know there was a Pre-Trib Post trib hang'in around here somewhere though. We should merge or move over to that one as I don't want anyone getting the wrong impression about us.

Mike.

Thank you Brother Mike for teachin us how to cypher up that Greek stuff.

Now we know that Paul really meant just the opposite of what he said here -

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Now because of the Greek female noun teaching, I know what Paul really meant in secret Greek code was -

The man of sin who goes to the temple and proclaims himself as God, comes AFTER the Church is Raptured to heaven.

Now it all make sense, you have really helped me to understand.

I never had even heard of the secret Greek female noun teaching before, until you came along brother Mike.

Thank you again for clearing up this mystery.

I now know to apply this special rule when interpreting Jesus word to His disciples -

29 "Immediately BEFORE the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

I see now why you believe the way you do.

I will start to apply this new secret female noun principle in all of my studies.

Only I will have to email you to know when to apply this new rule to my studies, so please be available to tell me when to apply this rule, so I can learn all the things you know.

Thank you again Brother Mike.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Brother Mike for teachin us how to cypher up that Greek stuff.

Now we know that Paul really meant just the opposite of what he said here -

Sigh......................................... Hey, anytime Brother, Glad to help you out...... don't mention it, your making me blush...................sigh..............

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

No one is getting resurrected until the man of sin, the son of perdition goes to the Temple and proclaims himself as God.

Who does he proclaim he is God to?

The church? the jews? the world? who?

 

[JLB]

No one is getting resurrected until the man of sin, the son of perdition goes to the Temple and proclaims himself as God.

Who does he proclaim he is God to?

The church? the jews? the world? who?

Primarily to those who built the Temple.

The World.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. Revelation 13:8-9


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Weird! Everyone no matter where I've asked has failed to answer my question "The Mark" before or after the rapture, everyone consists of those that adhere to the rapture theory.

Really? After, though I will qualify that to be after the middle of the week of tribulation. :waving

 

[Deborah13]

Is the Greek Verb that the Holy Spirit would have used if Falling away meant the church going astray

This is my understanding.

Mike, the falling away is not the church as a whole. The male form of this word means 'divorce, divorcement'. The female form must be used here because it a falling away (apostacy) of something female, which could be the church which is female, but more pointedly it is a falling away (from-standing) from a belief, a faith. Individuals falling into unbelief. Faith is also a female noun.
Why would the Holy Spirit use a verb, it is not an action, but a condition? It's not the act of 'falling away', but to be in the condition of 'fallen away'. No longer in in belief of the faith.
In Hebrews we see the author warning the Jewish believers, who were under terrible persecution by Judizers, not to fall (verb) from grace.

Fallen is never good, unless of coarse we are fallen down from our own throne, to the feet of Jesus.

 

[Eventide]

A marriage made in heaven...

In the ancient middle east, elders used to sit at the gates of each walled city. They acted as a type of border guard, keeping track of who went in and out of the city. When an honored guest, such as a governor or a king came to a city, the elders would leave their post at the gate, go out to meet the guest and escort him back to the city. The farther out they went, the more honor they showed the guest. When the rightful king of this earth comes to establish his kingdom, we will honor him by going out to meet him and escorting him back to earth.

I would think that it's best to stick with scriptures to see these things. Do you have scriptural affirmation that The Lord is going to meet the church in the air and then come right back to earth ? In the Gen 24 story, Rebekah is traveling to where Isaac is, and when they meet he takes her into his mother's tent. Paul tells us who the mother of us all is... And that's the Jerusalem which is above. Another affirmation that the marriage of the Lamb takes place in heaven and not on earth.

The Bible did not appear out of a vacuum. The basic message of salvation is simple enough that anyone can understand it without any formal training or education, but if we want to understand the deeper things in Scripture, it can be helpful and sometimes even necessary to know something of the culture, history, world-view and language behind the Bible. Some things simply cannot be known except from extra-biblical sources. for example, the dimensions of the ark of the covenant, the tabernacle and Solomon's temple are all given in cubits, but there is no definition anywhere in the Bible of how long a cubit is. If we want to know how big these things were, we need to go outside the Bible to find out.

The same applies to elders. Elders are mentioned in nearly 200 verses in both Old and New Testaments, but there is no explanation anywhere in the Bible of what they did. To know that, we have to look outside the Bible. Once we understand who the elders were and our position as spiritual elders of the earth, then our going to meet the Lord in the air and escorting him back to earth makes perfect sense.

I've actually never heard this before, that the church is going to escort The Lord to earth.

Revelation 19 does show The Lord coming to earth, although it also shows us the marriage of the Lamb to His wife prior to His coming.

The Lamb's wife is His glorious church which He shall present to Himself.

So once again, the church of God is in heaven before The Lord comes.

The OT story of Abraham sending his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son Isaac, reveals the bride on a long journey toward where Isaac is... It does not show Him going to us, but rather us going to Him... And of course this makes sense because the church of God is a heavenly entity with its citizenship being in heaven.

The Apostle to the Gentiles teaches us to not set our affections on earth, but on the things which are above.. for we are dead, and our life is hid in Christ with God.. And when He appears, we shall appear with Him.

Everything points to us going to where He is.. And that Day shall come as a thief in the night, and as travail upon a woman with child... Another miraculous story in the word of God concerning the things which shall be hereafter, at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is my understanding.

Mike, the falling away is not the church as a whole. The male form of this word means 'divorce, divorcement'. The female form must be used here because it a falling away (apostacy) of something female, which could be the church which is female, but more pointedly it is a falling away (from-standing) from a belief, a faith. Individuals falling into unbelief. Faith is also a female noun.

Deborah............ Faith in what? Faith has to be defined. Faith increased, Faith in God, and so on............... Female Noun. Being a female noun, it has to be pointed at something. The Holy Spirit did not use

Apostasia:
the Neuter noun counterpart. apostasion is a Neuter Noun, not Male noun. It means to separate from or divorce something that is another male or female noun.

A building is a Male noun, the Door a female noun and a floor a neuter noun. Both the Neuter and female have to be connected to the male in order to find what floor, and what door we are speaking about.

aphistēmi Means to leave a standing with someone, or to withdraw from someone or something. It is a verb.

Apostasia:

Is a female noun. It is made from Apo and histémi The definition means to leave from a previous standing. Nothing in the word means to turn from the truth. It is defined by the article of us coming together by Christ Jesus........... to leave a previous standing.

In Acts it was used as Forsake. They forsake Moses teachings. The left from a previous standing with what Moses was teaching. The Noun Moses defines what they left. Moses is defined by his teaching and not connected to Apostasia in any way as forsaking the truth.

2Th 2:1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

There must be a departure first......... Apostasia.. Paul never mentioned one time a mass deflection of the Church, and Apostasia does not mean turn from the truth. It means leaving a previous position, from something.

2Th 2:5 Don’t you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? (Yes, Paul told them about Jesus in the clouds, never said anything about some Church apostasy)
2Th 2:6 Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.

Now you know what is restraining Him....... There must be a departure first at the coming of the Lord Jesus, then the son of perdition is revealed.

We know who is restraining Him from being revealed, Jesus is in the way, or his body. We know there is a departure at the coming of the Lord Jesus. I can't help what Greek words the Holy Spirit used. I would believe post trib if I could get around these passages of scriptures, I can't with a clear conscience though and many, many more like it.

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

This is my understanding.

Mike, the falling away is not the church as a whole. The male form of this word means 'divorce, divorcement'. The female form must be used here because it a falling away (apostacy) of something female, which could be the church which is female, but more pointedly it is a falling away (from-standing) from a belief, a faith. Individuals falling into unbelief. Faith is also a female noun.

Deborah............ Faith in what? Faith has to be defined. Faith increased, Faith in God, and so on............... Female Noun. Being a female noun, it has to be pointed at something. The Holy Spirit did not use

Apostasia:
the Neuter noun counterpart. apostasion is a Neuter Noun, not Male noun. It means to separate from or divorce something that is another male or female noun.

A building is a Male noun, the Door a female noun and a floor a neuter noun. Both the Neuter and female have to be connected to the male in order to find what floor, and what door we are speaking about.

aphistēmi Means to leave a standing with someone, or to withdraw from someone or something. It is a verb.

Apostasia:

Is a female noun. It is made from Apo and histémi The definition means to leave from a previous standing. Nothing in the word means to turn from the truth. It is defined by the article of us coming together by Christ Jesus........... to leave a previous standing.

In Acts it was used as Forsake. They forsake Moses teachings. The left from a previous standing with what Moses was teaching. The Noun Moses defines what they left. Moses is defined by his teaching and not connected to Apostasia in any way as forsaking the truth.

2Th 2:1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

There must be a departure first......... Apostasia.. Paul never mentioned one time a mass deflection of the Church, and Apostasia does not mean turn from the truth. It means leaving a previous position, from something.

2Th 2:5 Don’t you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? (Yes, Paul told them about Jesus in the clouds, never said anything about some Church apostasy)
2Th 2:6 Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.

Now you know what is restraining Him....... There must be a departure first at the coming of the Lord Jesus, then the son of perdition is revealed.

We know who is restraining Him from being revealed, Jesus is in the way, or his body. We know there is a departure at the coming of the Lord Jesus. I can't help what Greek words the Holy Spirit used. I would believe post trib if I could get around these passages of scriptures, I can't with a clear conscience though and many, many more like it.

Mike.

apostasia - Strong's G646 - feminine noun -
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), ("apostasy"): - falling away, forsake.

apostasion - Strong's G647 - neuter noun -
Neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly something separative, that is, (specifically) divorce: - (writing of) divorcement.

aphistemi - Strong's G868 -
From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

In Acts it was used as Forsake. They forsake Moses teachings. The left from a previous standing with what Moses was teaching. The Noun Moses defines what they left. Moses is defined by his teaching and not connected to Apostasia in any way as forsaking the truth.

I agree, THEY did the forsaking. They forsake the teachings. They were apostate of the teachings.

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

A departure from what? I can't just dismiss the clear definition of the word. Because a translation says "departure" the Greek says what it says actually in the Gk interlinear it says ( from-standing) the opposite of (standing).

Apostasia does not mean turn from the truth. It means leaving a previous position, from something.

According to the Greek it does. Apostasy is never good in the Bible. The corresponding word in the Hebrew, is only used about four times and only twice in the new. Yes, I said condition, but your's is much better it is leaving a position! Yes!!

 

[lecoop]

The real Acts 2:38 Christians have a promise from the Word of God.

1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Thess 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If enduring the Great Tribulation was involved here these words would not be a comfort. .....
Bro. Winter

*******
Good grief!
"Then we which are alive"... shows clearly something happens FIRST!
Why did you delete omit the true context of the rapture being WITH the resurrection? Verse 16
The Bible shows it very clearly, for it is right there, yet you omit to even touch on that verse
*******
Instead you make a delete point with your Acts 28 delete as if this is what the scripture is all about.
delete The rapture you typed about is at the last day!...
Not before the first trumpet sounds, but at the last trump.
*******
Did God beat up the Isrealites in Goshen during the plagues? delete
Did God beat up Noah and his family? See? delete
Did God beat up Lot and his family? No, only the disobedient wife.
*******
delete
*******
Holy Bible
There is only one.

OF COURSE something happens first; the dead in Christ rise and then, perhaps one microsecond later, we that are alive are caught up. You are right, this IS the way it is going to happen.

He is right, (although I would have used a different verse) the rapture for those alive is ONLY for born again believers. Lukewarm Christians or "name only" Christians need not apply. they are going to be left behind. I am also convinced that all believers who just cannot seem to believe in the pretrib rapture will be left behind too. God is a FAITH God and everything we get from Him, we get by faith. If someone cannot believe He comes first, and so are watching for Him, they will be left behind. This thought should make everyone study into this matter. It is SERIOUS business.

Again he was absolutely right, if the rapture was not until the end, what on earth comfort would that be?

You seem to make a HUGE point about the resurrection. Well, PAUL'S resurrection will come as the trigger for the Day of the Lord. We get "salvation" [rapture] while the world gets "sudden destruction" which is the SIGN for the imminent start of the Day of the Lord. This is scripture, and hard to refute. Paul was the ONLY new testament writer who had the revelation of the rapture.

Where is the "sudden destruction" in Revelation? It is the earthquake at the 6th seal. Reader's take note, John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in chapter 7, as the great crowd no one could number. Make no mistake, this IS the raptured church and the timing fits with Paul's timing perfectly.

WHERE then does JOhn begin the 70th week? Right AFTER the rapture with the 7th seal, and the first trumpet judgment. Jesus' resurrection was the firstfruits of the first resurrection. The resurrection of the dead in Christ will be the second wave of the first resurrection. The 144,000 will be the third wave of the first resurrection. The Old testament saints will be the fourth wave of the first resurrection, rising at the 7th vial. Lecoop

 

[lecoop]

apostasia - Strong's G646 - feminine noun -
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), ("apostasy"): - falling away, forsake.

apostasion - Strong's G647 - neuter noun -
Neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly something separative, that is, (specifically) divorce: - (writing of) divorcement.

aphistemi - Strong's G868 -
From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.





I agree, THEY did the forsaking. They forsake the teachings. They were apostate of the teachings.

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

A departure from what? I can't just dismiss the clear definition of the word. Because a translation says "departure" the Greek says what it says actually in the Gk interlinear it says ( from-standing) the opposite of (standing).

Apostasia does not mean turn from the truth. It means leaving a previous position, from something.

According to the Greek it does. Apostasy is never good in the Bible. The corresponding word in the Hebrew, is only used about four times and only twice in the new. Yes, I said condition, but your's is much better it is leaving a position! Yes!!

A falling away from truth as the translation of apostasia simply does not fit the context of this passage. There is someone restraining the man of sin, PREVENTING his revealing, but when that restraining force is taken out of the way, THEN the man of sin will be revealed. He cannot be revealed until FIRST the one restraining is removed or departed.

2:3 part B ...and the man of sin IS REVEALED.....

If He IS Revealed in Paul's argument, and he surely is, then for sure the one restraining has been taken out of the way in verse 3 part A.

World English Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it [that is the Day of the Lord] will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,

The departure comes first, taking the one restraining "out of the way" and THEN the man of sin is revealed. When this happens, the revealing, there is no doubt, the day of the HAS come.

What then is this "departure" that takes the one restraining out of the way? Of course it is the gathering, Paul's theme for this passage. KJV's falling away never gets to Paul's THEME of the gathering!

We need to be LOOKING UP, and watching, for NOTHING is to come before HE comes for us.

Lecoop