Bible Study Two Covenants: The Old and New

[Malachi]

JLB,

I believe your response to my post needs a response. As pointed out in the opening post: “I think everyone recognizes that there are two Covenants, the Old and the New.” This is a true statement but you do not recognize it a true.

You said: "The law was added until the Seed should come.The Abrahamic Covenant was before the law ["old Covenant"] and is what we are grafted into as believers in Jesus Christ."
While the Abrahamic Covenant is undoubtedly extremely important, it does not enter into any discussion of “Old Covenant (or Old Testament)” and “New Covenant (or New Testament”) in Scripture. Therefore to introduce it in this discussion is to simply confuse the issue. (The words “covenant” and “testament” are used interchangeably in Scripture).

The only occurrence of the term “Old Testament” is found in 2 Corinthians 3:14 which says “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of THE OLD TESTAMENT; which vail is done away in Christ”. The context (2 Cor. 3:1-18) makes it very clear that Paul is here contrasting the Old Testament (and in particular the Torah or the Law of Moses) with the New Testament (verse 6 “Who also hath made us able ministers of THE NEW TESTAMENT"). The epistle to the Hebrews develops this contrast in even more detail, and once again compares the Law of Moses to the New Covenant in Christ. There is no reference to the Abrahamic Covenant in either 2 Corinthians or the book of Hebrews.

You also said: "The New Covenant is not a "different Covenant" but rather a "fresh Covenant" that includes the Holy Spirit for all who believe."
This statement is quite incorrect (although the gift of the Holy Spirit is true), since Scripture clearly reveals that the Old Covenant was merely types and shadows, but the New Covenant is the reality and the ultimate covenant. Notice what it says in Hebrews 8:4,5,7,8-10,13):
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The New Covenant is new not only because it was ratified with the blood of Christ, but because God’s Law was written in the hearts of believers rather than on tables of stone.

You said "No one can disconnect the law and commandments of God, that Abraham was commended for obeying, from the New Testament."

What if God Himself has set aside the Old Covenant with all its laws and commandments, and replaced it with the New Covenant and the Law of Christ? Are you going to argue with Him? (Hebrews 10:1,19-22).
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21And having an high priest over the house of God;
22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[ezrider]

Bringing this study back to the forefront. I have been shocked and dismayed at a comment from a member of this forum who has unequivocally stated that there is no new covenant of Grace.

 

[selihah]

JLB,

I believe your response to my post needs a response. As pointed out in the opening post: “I think everyone recognizes that there are two Covenants, the Old and the New.” This is a true statement but you do not recognize it a true.

You said: "The law was added until the Seed should come.The Abrahamic Covenant was before the law ["old Covenant"] and is what we are grafted into as believers in Jesus Christ."
While the Abrahamic Covenant is undoubtedly extremely important, it does not enter into any discussion of “Old Covenant (or Old Testament)” and “New Covenant (or New Testament”) in Scripture. Therefore to introduce it in this discussion is to simply confuse the issue. (The words “covenant” and “testament” are used interchangeably in Scripture).

The only occurrence of the term “Old Testament” is found in 2 Corinthians 3:14 which says “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of THE OLD TESTAMENT; which vail is done away in Christ”. The context (2 Cor. 3:1-18) makes it very clear that Paul is here contrasting the Old Testament (and in particular the Torah or the Law of Moses) with the New Testament (verse 6 “Who also hath made us able ministers of THE NEW TESTAMENT"). The epistle to the Hebrews develops this contrast in even more detail, and once again compares the Law of Moses to the New Covenant in Christ. There is no reference to the Abrahamic Covenant in either 2 Corinthians or the book of Hebrews.

You also said: "The New Covenant is not a "different Covenant" but rather a "fresh Covenant" that includes the Holy Spirit for all who believe."
This statement is quite incorrect (although the gift of the Holy Spirit is true), since Scripture clearly reveals that the Old Covenant was merely types and shadows, but the New Covenant is the reality and the ultimate covenant. Notice what it says in Hebrews 8:4,5,7,8-10,13):
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The New Covenant is new not only because it was ratified with the blood of Christ, but because God’s Law was written in the hearts of believers rather than on tables of stone.

You said "No one can disconnect the law and commandments of God, that Abraham was commended for obeying, from the New Testament."

What if God Himself has set aside the Old Covenant with all its laws and commandments, and replaced it with the New Covenant and the Law of Christ? Are you going to argue with Him? (Hebrews 10:1,19-22).
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21And having an high priest over the house of God;
22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

----------------------------

What if? If I was one of those Hebrews which were addressed by this unknown author I would at the very least search the scriptures to see if this thing said were so.

When I do I find the expression, "All His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever, (eternally)". When I read that I find it evidence of the eternity of the laws לְעוֹלָם (forever), and לָעַד (eternally), imply an uninterrupted and endless course of time. I am also met with the unmistakable use of the two words in the Psalm 148:6, "And He has established them forever and ever (eternally), He has given an ordinance and it shall not be infringed." The passage, "And I will keep Thy commandments continually for ever and ever," alludes to a period unlimited by time. Now for ici g on the cake in Exodus 15:18, the words יהוהיִמְלֹךְ לְעֹלָם וָעֶד "YHVH shall rule forever and ever (eternally)".

I, like those Hebrews addressed in that letter hopefully did would be to reject the idea that YHVH's commandments were a temporary thing and done away with.

 

[selihah]

Bringing this study back to the forefront. I have been shocked and dismayed at a comment from a member of this forum who has unequivocally stated that there is no new covenant of Grace.

I would also add that in my faith there is absolutely nothing new about grace, nothing new at all, many have found it. Yes Ez, even before you knew the meaning of the word you were already living in it because of the grace of YHVH.

And God said, This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for everlasting generations;
I set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between me and the earth.
And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud;
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
And God said to Noah, This is the sign of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

 

[th1b.taylor]

----------------------------

What if? If I was one of those Hebrews which were addressed by this unknown author I would at the very least search the scriptures to see if this thing said were so.

When I do I find the expression, "All His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever, (eternally)". When I read that I find it evidence of the eternity of the laws לְעוֹלָם (forever), and לָעַד (eternally), imply an uninterrupted and endless course of time. I am also met with the unmistakable use of the two words in the Psalm 148:6, "And He has established them forever and ever (eternally), He has given an ordinance and it shall not be infringed." The passage, "And I will keep Thy commandments continually for ever and ever," alludes to a period unlimited by time. Now for ici g on the cake in Exodus 15:18, the words יהוהיִמְלֹךְ לְעֹלָם וָעֶד "YHVH shall rule forever and ever (eternally)".

I, like those Hebrews addressed in that letter hopefully did would be to reject the idea that YHVH's commandments were a temporary thing and done away with.

Brother,
There are a number of people claiming the name of the Christ for their, very, own that you could teach.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I would also add that in my faith there is absolutely nothing new about grace, nothing new at all, many have found it. Yes Ez, even before you knew the meaning of the word you were already living in it because of the grace of YHVH.

And God said, This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for everlasting generations;
I set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between me and the earth.
And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud;
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
And God said to Noah, This is the sign of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

You are so right and by not claiming to be a Christian you will, by this point have a low boil rolling in some areas here. I leave you with, continue on, sir.

 

[selihah]

Please u derstand my intention is not to irratate anyone but rather educate another point of view, to share what I know.

On the lighter side. Even though, after looking your photo, it appears you have no doubt lost the battle. The Ode to the First Grey Hair by Judah Halevi came to mind. You may have heard it before.

I spied a white hair lurking in my beard, and straight away plucked it thence, "Thou art brave", it sneered, "'Gainst a lone scout - quite brave. But wilt thou be so plucky when my troop comes, seeking me?"

Peace

 

[th1b.taylor]

Please u derstand my intention is not to irratate anyone but rather educate another point of view, to share what I know.

On the lighter side. Even though, after looking your photo, it appears you have no doubt lost the battle. The Ode to the First Grey Hair by Judah Halevi came to mind. You may have heard it before.

I spied a white hair lurking in my beard, and straight away plucked it thence, "Thou art brave", it sneered, "'Gainst a lone scout - quite brave. But wilt thou be so plucky when my troop comes, seeking me?"

Peace

You are a worthy representative and without the usual, misdirected, agenda I had when I was not a believer. You might want to be prepared though because when God revealed Himself to me it just floored me and, suddenly, I was trying, desperately, to redirect my life to maintain purpose. About the gray, yes, I lost the battle I refused to fight on a double layer. I refused to battle to desert that descended from above and, as vain as I was, I got over dying the grey into oblivion.

Oh yeah, FYI, although some here, might, see me as weak minded, I did see your avatar notes on Christian or not. I fear, there are, far, to many pretenders in the Church Movement today and that leads to, entirely, to much misalignment, resulting in a, general, mis-view of what a Christ Follower is.

Net result? I will defend even the, misperceived, enemy. To many fail to study the Word of God to find the guide lines the Father left for us to guide our lives. That is why I have always preferred the hated Life Application Teaching when I took the pulpit or the Teacher' s position in my classes.

I pray for you that all of God's blessings descend upon you and yours. If your not being a Christian should or may mean you are an Atheist, you are such a better one than I was.

 

[Leah781]

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

What does it mean to inherit the earth? Have we already inherited the earth? Or are we waiting for some future kingdom in which we hope to inherit the earth? Both positions I believe could be argued for from the scripture, but the difference in the answer would more than likely depend upon which covenant with God your beliefs align with: The old covenant or the new covenant.

The old covenant was one of obedience to the Law, the new covenant is of Grace and obedience to Faith. But the differences between the two are much more than just a simplified phrase.

The old covenant was not just a covenant with a people, it was a covenant with a nation; the earthly kingdom of Israel. In the old testament the prophets foretold of the judgement of the nation. The Kingdom of Israel was judged and divide into two kingdoms; The nation Israel was judged when they were conquered by the Assyrians, and the peoples of that nation were scattered abroad. The remaining kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem were judged when they were carried off to Babylon and Jerusalem was destroyed. The nation of Israel (Judah) and Jerusalem were judged again according the old covenant and according to the prophecy of Jesus when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, and the peoples were scattered abroad.

The new covenant is still a covenant with a people, and it is a covenant with a kingdom; but in this case it is not an earthly kingdom, it is a spiritual kingdom, it is the Kingdom of Heaven, and Jesus is our Lord, Priest and King.

Under the old covenant the Law required that those guilty of certain sins, for instance an adulterer, was to be stoned to death so that the nation might remain clean in the face of judgement according to the Law under the old covenant. Yet when faced with the adulterer, Jesus demonstrated the mercy demanded of the new covenant when he challenged them by saying he who is without sin cast the first stone; making an open show of those principalities and powers.

Our relationship with God is a covenant relationship. And the way we perceive and interpret the scriptures, both the law and the prophets, depends upon how we perceive our covenant relationship with God. Most people would claim that they are under the new covenant, yet their character still reflects an old covenant relationship. For example, Christians will hold up the Bible and the Law of Moses as their justification and in their defense for fighting against homosexual marriage because they believe they would be condoning it otherwise, and if they were to permit it, then God would bring judgement upon the nation: this is an old covenant mindset.

I believe if our relationship with God through Christ is viewed through an old covenant lens, then that person tends to see Matt 24 as a yet future judgement; But if our relationship is viewed through a new covenant lens, then that person tends to see Matt 24 as already being fulfilled. The tares of the field are of the old covenant, the wheat are of the new. The characteristics of these Covenant relationships we have through Christ I believe effects our application of Law and colors our views on Prophecy, and may help explain why two people can see the same scripture so differently.

I think everyone recognizes that there are two Covenants, the Old and the New. What I hope to achieve in this study with the assistance of all who wish to participate, is to use some scriptural references that can help to define the characteristics of both the old and the new covenants. What are their similarities, and what are their differences?

I am posting this thread in the Bible Study forum because it is not a debate forum. My intent in this thread is to simply examine the characteristics of the two covenants. If this topic generates some interest, then I hope to start a sister thread eventually in the appropriate forum where we can debate how these characteristics might reflect on our judgement and interpretation of prophecy.

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Jesus was quoting from Psalm 37. All of chapter 37 gives us more insight into what Jesus was saying at Matthew 5:5. Notice verse 9 refers to a time when the wicked will be gone from the earth. For most of mankind’s history there has been wicked people on the earth, except immediately after the great flood. So I think this must refer to a future time, because the earth is still full of wicked people. Verse 29 says that the righteous will dwell forever on the earth.
In the Lord’s Prayer Jesus told us to pray “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”( Matt 6:10) If God’s will was done on earth as it is in heaven what would the earth be like? I think It would be full of righteous, meek people that obey God and there wouldn’t be any wicked people on earth. You might say it would be like heaven on earth.

Psalm 37 King James Version (KJV)
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

 

[Deborah13]

In the Lord’s Prayer Jesus told us to pray “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”( Matt 6:10) If God’s will was done on earth as it is in heaven what would the earth be like?

imo.
I think we can get into problems when we say what would earth look like and comparing it to what heaven looks like.
It only says that God's will be done on earth as God's will is done in heaven. God's will for heaven may look different than God's will for this earth. Just as His will in the particular things in your life may look different than His will in the particular things in my life.
Are there any materially poor in heaven? Yet God said there will always be the materially poor on this earth. I believe He has a purpose for there being poor people on this earth.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Is this scripture referring to this earth or the new earth? I don't know.

 

[ezrider]

Psalms 25:4-14
Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths.
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me:
for thou art the God of my salvation;
on thee do I wait all the day.
Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses;
for they have been ever of old.
Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions:
according to thy mercy remember thou me
for thy goodness 'sake, O Lord.
Good and upright is the Lord:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment:
and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth
unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord,
pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord?
him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
His soul shall dwell at ease;
and his seed shall inherit the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him;
and he will shew them his covenant.

Psalms 25:4-14
Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths.
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me:
for thou art the God of my salvation;
on thee do I wait all the day.
Remember, O Lord, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses;
for they have been ever of old.
Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions:
according to thy mercy remember thou me
for thy goodness 'sake, O Lord.
Good and upright is the Lord:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
The meek will he guide in judgment:
and the meek will he teach his way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth
unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
For thy name's sake, O Lord,
pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
What man is he that feareth the Lord?
him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
His soul shall dwell at ease;
and his seed shall inherit the earth.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him;
and he will shew them his covenant.

I love this Psalm. Can anyone tell me what is the way that the Lord has chosen that he might instruct you?

.

 

[ezrider]

I love this Psalm. Can anyone tell me what is the way that the Lord has chosen that he might instruct you?

No takers yet?

On a forum full of those claiming to Christians, and some self professing Bible Scholars, can no one answer the question.

What is the path that the Lord has chosen that He might instruct you in His Righteousness?

Can anyone come up with an answer?


.

 

[ezrider]

The way the Lord has chosen to instruct you by is the way of sin.


.

 

[jocor]

The way the Lord has chosen to instruct you by is the way of sin..

I disagree.

Psa 25:12 Who is this--the man fearing Jehovah [YHWH]? He directeth him in the way He doth choose. YLT, [brackets mine]
​

Many translations do not distinguish the pronoun "he" with a capital "H" when referring to YHWH. I believe Young's translation is correct. Your view seems to require a small "h" making it man's choice rather than YHWH's choice. However, if it is man's choice, then you are saying that YHWH wants us to go in the direction of sin. It is YHWH's will that we keep His commandments. It is His will that we not sin.

Psa 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach His way.
Jdg 2:22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of YHWH to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
​

YHWH tests us to see if we will walk in His way via keeping His commandments. His desire was for Israel to "choose life" by choosing to obey His commandments, not disobey them unto sin and death.

We can definitely learn through sin, but that is the hard way to learn. YHWH wants us to learn the easy way through obedience. That is His perfect will for us. If we reject that way, then He will use the way we choose (sin) to teach us, if we are still teachable.

​

​

​

 

[ezrider]

We can definitely learn through sin, but that is the hard way to learn. YHWH wants us to learn the easy way through obedience.

And how do you learn through obedience? What is it that you think you are obedient too?


.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The way the Lord has chosen to instruct you by is the way of sin.


.

21 Your ears will hear a word behind * you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left." (Isaiah 30:21 NASB bold mine)

11 I have directed you in the way of wisdom; I have led you in upright paths. 12 When you walk, your steps will not be impeded; And if you run, you will not stumble. 13 Take hold of instruction; do not let go. Guard her, for she is your life. 14 Do not enter the path of the wicked And do not proceed in the way of evil men. 15 Avoid it, do not pass by it; Turn away from it and pass on. 16 For they cannot sleep unless * they do evil; And they are robbed of sleep unless * they make someone stumble. 17 For they eat the bread of wickedness And drink the wine of violence. 18 But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, That shines brighter and brighter until the full day. 19 The way of the wicked is like darkness; They do not know over what they stumble. 20 My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings. 21 Do not let them depart from your sight; Keep them in the midst of your heart. 22 For they are life to those who find them And health to all their body. 23 Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life. 24 Put away from you a deceitful mouth And put devious speech far from you. 25 Let your eyes look directly ahead And let your gaze be fixed straight in front of you. 26 Watch the path of your feet And all your ways will be established. 27 Do not turn to the right nor to the left; Turn your foot from evil." (Proverbs 4:11-27 NASB bold mine)

He does not lead us into temptation to instruct us, though he will certainly turn you over to it if you persist in your rebellion. God's word of Truth and wisdom is how he guides and instructs us and keep us out of sin, not lead us into it. He says through David to NOT be like the mule who has no understanding and needs bit and bridle to be steered...

"8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you. 9 Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, Whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, Otherwise they will not come near to you." (Proverbs 32:8-9 NASB bold mine)

97 O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. 98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine. 99 I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts. 101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word. 102 I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me. 103 How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore * I hate every false way. Nun.
Nun.
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. 106 I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances. 107 I am exceedingly * afflicted; Revive me, O LORD, according to Your word. 108 O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, And teach me Your ordinances. 109 My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law." (Psalm 119:97-109 NASB bold mine)

 

[jocor]

And how do you learn through obedience? What is it that you think you are obedient too?
.

As in Jethro's excellent reply above, Psalm 119 is very instructive in how to learn through obedience.

97 O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. 98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine. 99 I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts. 101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word. 102 I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me. 103 How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. 105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. 106 I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances. 107 I am exceedingly afflicted; Revive me, O YHWH, according to Your word. 108 O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O YHWH, And teach me Your ordinances. 109 My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law." (Psalm 119:97-109 NASB bold mine)
​

To which I will also add:

Psa 19:7 The law of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of YHWH is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of YHWH are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of YHWH is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of YHWH is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of YHWH are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.​

When we are obedient to YHWH's commandments, statutes, judgments, and laws (Torah) we become wise and enlightened.

 

[ezrider]

21 Your ears will hear a word behind * you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left." (Isaiah 30:21 NASB bold mine)

11 I have directed you in the way of wisdom; I have led you in upright paths. 12 When you walk, your steps will not be impeded; And if you run, you will not stumble. 13 Take hold of instruction; do not let go. Guard her, for she is your life. 14 Do not enter the path of the wicked And do not proceed in the way of evil men. 15 Avoid it, do not pass by it; Turn away from it and pass on. 16 For they cannot sleep unless * they do evil; And they are robbed of sleep unless * they make someone stumble. 17 For they eat the bread of wickedness And drink the wine of violence. 18 But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, That shines brighter and brighter until the full day. 19 The way of the wicked is like darkness; They do not know over what they stumble. 20 My son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings. 21 Do not let them depart from your sight; Keep them in the midst of your heart. 22 For they are life to those who find them And health to all their body. 23 Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life. 24 Put away from you a deceitful mouth And put devious speech far from you. 25 Let your eyes look directly ahead And let your gaze be fixed straight in front of you. 26 Watch the path of your feet And all your ways will be established. 27 Do not turn to the right nor to the left; Turn your foot from evil." (Proverbs 4:11-27 NASB bold mine)

He does not lead us into temptation to instruct us, though he will certainly turn you over to it if you persist in your rebellion. God's word of Truth and wisdom is how he guides and instructs us and keep us out of sin, not lead us into it. He says through David to NOT be like the mule who has no understanding and needs bit and bridle to be steered...

"8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you. 9 Do not be as the horse or as the mule which have no understanding, Whose trappings include bit and bridle to hold them in check, Otherwise they will not come near to you." (Proverbs 32:8-9 NASB bold mine)

97 O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. 98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine. 99 I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts. 101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word. 102 I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me. 103 How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore * I hate every false way. Nun.
Nun.
105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. 106 I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances. 107 I am exceedingly * afflicted; Revive me, O LORD, according to Your word. 108 O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, And teach me Your ordinances. 109 My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law." (Psalm 119:97-109 NASB bold mine)

Thank you for posting all that scripture without really adding anything to the conversation.

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[Jethro Bodine]

Psalm 19 is one of my favorite passages in the Bible.

 

[ezrider]

As in Jethro's excellent reply above, Psalm 119 is very instructive in how to learn through obedience.

97 O how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. 98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, For they are ever mine. 99 I have more insight than all my teachers, For Your testimonies are my meditation. 100 I understand more than the aged, Because I have observed Your precepts. 101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word. 102 I have not turned aside from Your ordinances, For You Yourself have taught me. 103 How sweet are Your words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. 105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. 106 I have sworn and I will confirm it, That I will keep Your righteous ordinances. 107 I am exceedingly afflicted; Revive me, O YHWH, according to Your word. 108 O accept the freewill offerings of my mouth, O YHWH, And teach me Your ordinances. 109 My life is continually in my hand, Yet I do not forget Your law." (Psalm 119:97-109 NASB bold mine)
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To which I will also add:

Psa 19:7 The law of YHWH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of YHWH is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of YHWH are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of YHWH is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of YHWH is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of YHWH are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.​

When we are obedient to YHWH's commandments, statutes, judgments, and laws (Torah) we become wise and enlightened.

And for all of your obedience to the LAW, what does the law reveal to you? Is it not SIN?