Bible Study Two Covenants: The Old and New

[ezrider]

There is a big difference between the law revealing sin and YHWH instructing us by the way of sin. He instructs us by the way of obedience to His laws. When we disobey, the Law tells us we just sinned and need forgiveness. Sin does not instruct us. Sin is simply the unrighteous, unholy, evil result of breaking the Law. It is YHWH that instructs us through the way of the Law .

You are trying so hard to disagree with me that now you rely and semantics instead. All I have stated with my question in post #72 and my own response to that question in post #73 is the the way, the path the the Lord has chosen to instruct you in. I have not declared to you how the Lord should choose to instruct you within the path, I have only declared to you the path that the Lord has chosen to instruct you in. In that there is a big difference, and you would do better to not conflate the two.


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[ezrider]

What does "the act of sin in the flesh" mean? Are you saying Yeshua's shed blood does not cleanse me from the sins of theft, adultery, idolatry, etc.? His death cleanses me from all acts of sin. Afterwards, after the sins are removed, then our conscience is clear of sins.

NO. The blood of Christ has cleansed you from ALL sins of the flesh. That includes theft, murder, adultery, idolatry, etc... All of these transgression are forgiven unto man. But that does not give anyone a license to commit murder or adultery or whatever. Those transgressions have been given over to the rulers and magistrates to meet out punishment. So if you commit a murder, you will still answer for your crime and sit in a prison for your deeds according to the flesh. That is why Paul says of such a one to deliver him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord (1 Cor 5:5).

Through the death and resurrection of Christ we have become dead to the law of sin. And being dead in our sins through Christ, then sin can no more slay us, thus freeing our conscience to serve the Lord with a living Spirit that is no more subject to the threats and fears and condemnation that comes from sin and death.

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[ezrider]

As for answering for Adam's transgression, that is NOT something that we must answer for after our conscience is clear. Yeshua answered it for us at his death BEFORE our conscience was cleared.

Jesus took upon himself all the sins of the flesh and gave us an answer before the Lord that we understood our position in this current state so that our conscience migh be purged from all of dead works, so that we may then look upon the sin of Adam's transgression which was not a sin of the flesh, but one of the spirit.


Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1 John 5:16-17 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Matthew 12:31:32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:8-10
Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

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[jocor]

You are trying so hard to disagree with me that now you rely and semantics instead. All I have stated with my question in post #72 and my own response to that question in post #73 is the the way, the path the the Lord has chosen to instruct you in. I have not declared to you how the Lord should choose to instruct you within the path, I have only declared to you the path that the Lord has chosen to instruct you in. In that there is a big difference, and you would do better to not conflate the two.
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It is not semantics. You claim the path is sin. Scripture declares the path is Yeshua and the commandments.

Psalm 119:35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.
John 14:6 Yeshua said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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The true remnant will have two paths and the path of sin is not one of them.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yeshua Messiah.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Yeshua.
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[ezrider]

Yes, there is a BIG difference.

I think ezrider has changed his argument. I think it started out as 'the Lord has chosen to instruct you by the way of sinning' to 'the Lord has chosen to instruct you by the way of revealing the truth about sin to you'. Which he had to since we posted lots of scripture that shows that God is not leading us into the way of sin to instruct us, but into the instruction and wisdom of the way of righteousness.

My argument has not changed at all. As I have highlighted your words "I think;" I can can tell you the only thing that has changed is your perception of that which I am speaking, but my argument has not changed.

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[jocor]

NO. The blood of Christ has cleansed you from ALL sins of the flesh. That includes theft, murder, adultery, idolatry, etc... All of these transgression are forgiven unto man. But that does not give anyone a license to commit murder or adultery or whatever. Those transgressions have been given over to the rulers and magistrates to meet out punishment. So if you commit a murder, you will still answer for your crime and sit in a prison for your deeds according to the flesh. That is why Paul says of such a one to deliver him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord (1 Cor 5:5).

Through the death and resurrection of Christ we have become dead to the law of sin. And being dead in our sins through Christ, then sin can no more slay us, thus freeing our conscience to serve the Lord with a living Spirit that is no more subject to the threats and fears and condemnation that comes from sin and death.
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If you commit murder, you will not only answer for your crime before man, but you will answer for it before YHWH as well.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1John 3:15 Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
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[ezrider]

The condemnation of Adam is that he did not keep the commandment given to him:

The condemnation of Adam was not that he did not keep the commandment. The sin after the similitude of Adam's transgression was that by the KNOWLEDGE OF HIS SIN HE HID FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD. And with that knowledge that he now held, he sought a covering for himself to hide from the presence of the Lord. The Knowledge of the law condemns sin in the flesh, and by that knowledge they seek a covering to hide from the presence of the Lord. But there is no more reason to hide from the presence of the Lord, for Christ has come that he might purge your conscience of these dead works so that He might send unto you the Holy Spirit to come and dwell within your heart so that you might once again walk in the presence of the Lord.


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[jocor]

The condemnation of Adam was not that he did not keep the commandment. The sin after the similitude of Adam's transgression was that by the KNOWLEDGE OF HIS SIN HE HID FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD. And with that knowledge that he now held, he sought a covering for himself to hide from the presence of the Lord. The Knowledge of the law condemns sin in the flesh, and by that knowledge they seek a covering to hide from the presence of the Lord. But there is no more reason to hide from the presence of the Lord, for Christ has come that he might purge your conscience of these dead works so that He might send unto you the Holy Spirit to come and dwell within your heart so that you might once again walk in the presence of the Lord.
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Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:​

Sin entered the world through the Adam's disobedience to the command to not eat from the tree. Hiding himself from the presence of YHWH was not a sin/transgression since there was no command telling him not to hide. His hiding was the result of fear and shame because he had broken the command to not eat of the tree.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My argument has not changed at all. As I have highlighted your words "I think;" I can can tell you the only thing that has changed is your perception of that which I am speaking, but my argument has not changed.

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God knows and that's good enough for me.
But it's good to see you are not saying God leads us into sin as a rule in order to teach us righteousness.

 

[ezrider]

It is not semantics. You claim the path is sin. Scripture declares the path is Yeshua and the commandments.

The scripture declares that Christ has been made sin for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

For he hath made him to be sin for us. So what is the sin that you should be conscience of that should it condemn you. Is it idolatry? Or how about the sin of homosexuality? Or is it the sin of not believing in the words of Christ.

John 16:7-17
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me:for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.


When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of sin because they believe not in Christ. Not because of your adultery, but because you did not believe in Christ who has been made sin for you.

When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of righteousness because they do not walk by FAITH, but but the knowledge of sin and death that comes from the law.

When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of judgement because the Law has been judged and he has given to you a new covenant that you should follow. Not of a law unto condemnation, but of a law unto salvation. Judge not lest you be judged...


John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Men loved darkness rather than the light. Men loved the law of Moses more than they did the Grace of the Lord. Who are you oh man that you should forgive yourself your trespasses under the law and then turn around and use the same law to condemn your neighbor?


Romans 1:16-18
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.


What truth do you hold in unrighteousness? Is it not the Law? Why do you hold it in unrighteousness? Because you hold it by your own knowledge and NOT the knowledge that comes by FAITH.


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[Jethro Bodine]

The condemnation of Adam was not that he did not keep the commandment. The sin after the similitude of Adam's transgression was that by the KNOWLEDGE OF HIS SIN HE HID FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD.

No. God made it very clear to Adam what his sin was:

"17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you" (Genesis 3:17 NASB)

 

[ezrider]

Sin entered the world through the Adam's disobedience to the command to not eat from the tree. Hiding himself from the presence of YHWH was not a sin/transgression since there was no command telling him not to hide.

Adam was given one command. Do not eat of the tree of Knowledge, for in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die.

The command did not come with the same caveat that we understand today; But, should the Lord at that time when Adam lived by perfect Faith have given him two commands? The first being thou shall not eat of the tree of Knowledge, and the second command being, If you should disobey the first command then thou shall repent of your deeds and beg for my mercy?

Adam began in perfect Faith and fell from Grace. We begin in the fallen state under Grace and trust in the Lord to bring us back into His perfect FAITH.


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[ezrider]

God knows and that's good enough for me.
But it's good to see you are not saying God leads us into sin as a rule in order to teach us righteousness.

I am afraid we do well enough on our own to lead us into sin. After all, look how many people are not satisfied with the sins that the scriptures declare for you, for they set out to define new sins daily to burden themselves with. Is watching television a sin? How about listing to heavy metal music, or rap music, is that a sin? No, all of these sins we seek out so that we might define our own righteousness, and that is what keeps us from the righteousness of Christ that comes by Faith.

 

[ezrider]

No. God made it very clear to Adam what his sin was:

"17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you" (Genesis 3:17 NASB)

You speak of the knowledge you read in the scripture, and if it is come by your knowledge then it has not come by Faith. If you were to open your heart and mind, then you would know the truth of it.

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[jocor]

The scripture declares that Christ has been made sin for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

For he hath made him to be sin for us. So what is the sin that you should be conscience of that should it condemn you. Is it idolatry? Or how about the sin of homosexuality? Or is it the sin of not believing in the words of Christ.

The sin of unbelief.

John 16:7-17
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me:for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.


When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of sin because they believe not in Christ. Not because of your adultery, but because you did not believe in Christ who has been made sin for you.

That is true for unbelievers. Believers, however, will be rewarded based on their works (1Co 3:11-15). Why did you write this as though I do not believe in Messiah (Christ)?

When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of righteousness because they do not walk by FAITH, but but the knowledge of sin and death that comes from the law.

Walking by faith does NOT mean walking without obeying the law. The fruit of faith is obedience to the law.

When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of judgement because the Law has been judged and he has given to you a new covenant that you should follow. Not of a law unto condemnation, but of a law unto salvation. Judge not lest you be judged...

Where do we read in Scripture that "the Law has been judged"?

John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Men loved darkness rather than the light. Men loved the law of Moses more than they did the Grace of the Lord. Who are you oh man that you should forgive yourself your trespasses under the law and then turn around and use the same law to condemn your neighbor?

Are you actually calling the law of Moses darkness or am I misunderstanding you?

Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:​

How am I forgiving my own trespasses and condemning my neighbor?

Romans 1:16-18
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

What truth do you hold in unrighteousness? Is it not the Law? Why do you hold it in unrighteousness? Because you hold it by your own knowledge and NOT the knowledge that comes by FAITH.
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What on earth are you talking about? My righteousness does not come through the law, but through faith in Messiah Yeshua. That faith produces works of obedience to the law.

 

[jocor]

You speak of the knowledge you read in the scripture, and if it is come by your knowledge then it has not come by Faith. If you were to open your heart and mind, then you would know the truth of it.
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Ahhh! Now I understand where you are coming from. You don't acquire your knowledge from Scripture, but from the thoughts that come into your open heart and mind. That's a great way to open yourself up to deception.

Everything that comes into our minds and hearts must align with Scripture. If it doesn't, it needs to be discarded.

 

[ezrider]

Ahhh! Now I understand where you are coming from. You don't acquire your knowledge from Scripture, but from the thoughts that come into your open heart and mind. That's a great way to open yourself up to deception.

Everything that comes into our minds and hearts must align with Scripture. If it doesn't, it needs to be discarded.

Do you believe that because you can read the scripture and look up the Greek or Hebrew words in a concordance or dictionary that you have eyes to see? Do you believe the scripture that says their eyes remain blinded until this day when reading the old testament? But when their hearts shall turn to Christ, then the veil shall be taken away. Do you think the power of the Holy Spirit can keep them blinded to the truth?

Yes, I have opened my heart and mind so I might receive the truth from the Spirit of God. Yes I have opened myself up to deception, but in my deception the Lord is present with me. Yes, I have opened my self up to deception that I might learn by through Faith by His Grace, and I am sold into the deception known as Christ.

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[jocor]

Do you believe that because you can read the scripture and look up the Greek or Hebrew words in a concordance or dictionary that you have eyes to see? Do you believe the scripture that says their eyes remain blinded until this day when reading the old testament? But when their hearts shall turn to Christ, then the veil shall be taken away. Do you think the power of the Holy Spirit can keep them blinded to the truth?
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2Co 3:14 is referring to unbelieving Jews. Your post #114 was written to Jethro who is a believer in Messiah and who has no veil over his eyes. For you to suggest his heart and mind are not open to truth is arrogant.

 

[ezrider]

John 16:7-17
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me:for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

When the Holy Spirit is come he will reprove the world of sin because they believe not in Christ. Not because of your adultery, but because you did not believe in Christ who has been made sin for you.

That is true for unbelievers. Believers, however, will be rewarded based on their works (1Co 3:11-15). Why did you write this as though I do not believe in Messiah (Christ)?

Do you count yourself among the unbelievers? Why are you so quick to say this is true for unbelievers? The reprove of the Holy Spirit is for the believers, and yet you seem so quick to discount that? For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved (John 3:20).


John 14:15-21
If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me:because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

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[ezrider]

Walking by faith does NOT mean walking without obeying the law. The fruit of faith is obedience to the law.

But the prophets foretold of another Law of God coming forth from Zion.

Isaiah 2:3
And many people shall go and say,
Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for out of Zion shall go forth the law,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem

Micah 4:2
And many nations shall come, and say,
Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
and to the house of the God of Jacob;
and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths:
for the law shall go forth of Zion,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.


I know that you have heard the Law of Moses as it was received in Sinai on the Mountain of God. But have you heard the Law as is was sent forth from Zion?

Which commandment do you follow: the one from Zion or the one from Sinai?

Can you show us where in the scriptures we find this new law as it went forth out of Zion? Or are you still waiting for the law to come forth from Zion?

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