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Two End Time Battles

I understand that ... The Scriptures tell us if one does not have the Son one does not have the Father.
 
Deborah13 said:
I don't know what you are referring to when you say they allowed the enemy to take it away. When was that?


Do Jews want to resume sacrifices?
Orthodox Jews do. There are several places in our daily prayer services where we pray for the restoration of the Temple and the resumption of its rituals, including the rituals of sacrifice. The Orthodox Yom Kippur service includes a lengthy recollection of the Temple service, mourns its loss and longs for its restoration. Other movements of Judaism have removed these portions from the liturgy. http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm
In this same article they say that Jews believe they are forgiven with sacrifices because they see how the whole city of Nineveh was forgiven when Jonah preached to them. Wow, interesting they see only that and don't put that together with Jesus, seeing Nineveh was a gentile Assyrian city.
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Here is a wonderful site that explains all the different changes to the temple mount from the beginning to and including the mosque that stands there today. Jews never truly abandoned the temple mount and still sacrifice and pray there even though the temple was destroyed they still have certain access to the outer court. http://www.meforum.org/3556/temple-mount
 
reba said:
I understand that ... The Scriptures tell us if one does not have the Son one does not have the Father.
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1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

I believe this is the verse you are referring to. Before that of Christ it was by the righteousness of faith that Abraham, Issac, Jacob and many others of faith were made righteous by Gods righteousness as they obeyed and followed Gods sacrificial ordinances for the atonement of their sin. Now that Jesus was made an end to the law of sacrifices as being the final sacrifice for sin we no longer live by those sacrificial laws.
 
for_his_glory said:
Here is a wonderful site that explains all the different changes to the temple mount from the beginning to and including the mosque that stands there today. Jews never truly abandoned the temple mount and still sacrifice and pray there even though the temple was destroyed they still have certain access to the outer court. http://www.meforum.org/3556/temple-mount
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But when were you referring to when you said,
"Many Jews have always been trying to regain the temple mount after they allowed the enemy to take it away,"

When and how did they allow the enemy to take it away?
 
for_his_glory said:
Here is a wonderful site that explains all the different changes to the temple mount from the beginning to and including the mosque that stands there today. Jews never truly abandoned the temple mount and still sacrifice and pray there even though the temple was destroyed they still have certain access to the outer court. http://www.meforum.org/3556/temple-mount
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But that has nothing to do with the blood of bulls and goats for atonement, does it?
 
Deborah13 said:
But that has nothing to do with the blood of bulls and goats for atonement, does it?
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If you read the whole thing you will see it does talk about those Jews who still bring animal sacrifices and prayers to the altars they set up even though the actual temple is not there anymore. I was showing with this website how through the ages the Temple has been taken away and destroyed and how the Dome of the rock came to be built on it. The topic is about the two battles, not about sacrifices as that needs to be another discussion if someone would like to start one.
 
for_his_glory said:
If you read the whole thing you will see it does talk about those Jews who still bring animal sacrifices and prayers to the altars they set up even though the actual temple is not there anymore. I was showing with this website how through the ages the Temple has been taken away and destroyed and how the Dome of the rock came to be built on it. The topic is about the two battles, not about sacrifices as that needs to be another discussion if someone would like to start one.
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ok - from the OP - quote -
"Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel to stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place..."

Which scripture in Daniel?
What literal Holy place?
 
Deborah13 said:
ok - from the OP - quote -
"Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel to stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place..."

Which scripture in Daniel?
What literal Holy place?
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Daniel Chapter 9:24; 9:26; Dan 9:27; Dan 11:31; Dan 12:11

After 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the prince, which means National Israel or other words the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolation of Abominations where the so-called Antichrist will take a literal throne in a literal temple, but his throne will be that of world control over politics, economics and religious authority.(New World Order).

To stand in the holy place means to flee that which is evil happening around you and not to partake in that the evil as it could consume you. Flee to the mountain meaning flee to the presence of God who is our help in times of trouble. We can see this in the below scriptures as stand in the holy place, standing where it not ought and flee to the mountain. Mountain can be a metaphor for God as being our high Priest like in coming boldly to His throne of grace.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
 
for_his_glory said:
Daniel Chapter 9:24; 9:26; Dan 9:27; Dan 11:31; Dan 12:11

After 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the prince, which means National Israel or other words the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolation of Abominations where the so-called Antichrist will take a literal throne in a literal temple, but his throne will be that of world control over politics, economics and religious authority.(New World Order).

To stand in the holy place means to flee that which is evil happening around you and not to partake in that the evil as it could consume you. Flee to the mountain meaning flee to the presence of God who is our help in times of trouble. We can see this in the below scriptures as stand in the holy place, standing where it not ought and flee to the mountain. Mountain can be a metaphor for God as being our high Priest like in coming boldly to His throne of grace.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
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So in Matthew 23, Jesus didn't really mean that Their house would be left to them desolate? And when He told the apostles that "one stone would not be left standing" He was speaking of Himself?

YLT
Mat 23:37 `Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will.
Mat 23:38 Lo, left desolate to you is your house;
Mat 23:39 for I say to you, ye may not see me henceforth, till ye may say, Blessed is he who is coming in the name of the Lord.'

Mat 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,
Mat 24:2 and Jesus said to them, `Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.'
Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

Dan 9:27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many--one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.' (Jerusalem)
 
Deborah13 said:
So in Matthew 23, Jesus didn't really mean that Their house would be left to them desolate? And when He told the apostles that "one stone would not be left standing" He was speaking of Himself?

YLT
Mat 23:37 `Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will.
Mat 23:38 Lo, left desolate to you is your house;
Mat 23:39 for I say to you, ye may not see me henceforth, till ye may say, Blessed is he who is coming in the name of the Lord.'

Mat 24:1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple,
Mat 24:2 and Jesus said to them, `Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.'
Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

Dan 9:27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many--one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.' (Jerusalem)
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What is our house if not that of the Lord and who are the desolate, but those who have lost all for not knowing the Lord. The OT is very literal and also Spiritually prophetic of the NT. That is why you need to compare scripture with scripture, OT with NT, to understand that of the literal of that time period and the prophetic events up to the time of Christ return. I can't make anyone see that of the Spiritual as only the Holy Spirit can reveal that to those who are seeking truth, but I can give what the Holy Spirit allows me to give.

Matthew 23:37-39 Jesus is lamenting over Jerusalem after he characterizes the Pharisees and condemns them
Daniel 9:27 The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice that fulfilled the law. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the Spiritual city right up to the cross were the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes and gathers his bride as they prepare to stand in the Holy place until the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all that would not repent.
 
A Holy place is anywhere where we seek Gods Spirit. Whether it be in any type of building or covering or out in the opened air.
 
for_his_glory said:
A Holy place is anywhere where we seek Gods Spirit. Whether it be in any type of building or covering or out in the opened air.
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Does it then follow that the holy place spoken of in Danial is any place we seek Gods Spirit...IS it our seeking that makes a 'place' holy of is it His presence?
 
Any place within itself is not holy unless we are seeking to be in the presence of the Lord.

Psalms 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
 
reba said:
Does it then follow that the holy place spoken of in Danial is any place we seek Gods Spirit...IS it our seeking that makes a 'place' holy of is it His presence?
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A place is not Holy unless God is present there. He makes it holy.
 
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