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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Two End Time Battles
- Thread starter for_his_glory
- Start date
amen
Deborah13
Member
'Holy' can simply mean 'set apart', as a descriptive term devoid of a value judgment.
True.
Would you say that because something is holy to me, that it is also holy to God?
Sinthesis
Member
Holy to you? Yeah, probably.
But just think how many people believe Mecca is holy. Can't really agree with them.
If God sets something or someplace apart from the mundane as Holy, and we defile it, then what is it good for. Can't the defiled still be considered Holy in the 'set apart' sense until judged by God and plowed back into the mundane world it was originally set apart from?
Deborah13
Member
Well, I messed up what I was trying to say and you responded in a kind way. I was really trying to say that because I determine that something is holy that doesn't mean that God does. I agree with you, Mecca is a good example of this.
Can something that God has 'set apart' as holy be 'reduced in value' by man?
I don't think so. I think, God is the only one who can determine when something is no longer holy (set apart) to Him and no longer of any use (value) to Him.
My livingroom, my yard, our camp can be a holy place. In the face of destruction of evil can be found a holy place. It's not so much of where we are in the physical that makes it a holy place, it's where we are in the Spiritual that makes it a holy place when we allow ourselves to come into the presence of the throne of God.
Sinthesis
Member
Man can rebel, and God can redeem. The OT is full of situations were God judged the 'Holy', yet He always kept a remnant to continue His purpose.
Consider Jeremiah 13
Deborah13
Member
Yes, as a nation they were 'set apart'. When He judged them as a nation He did it so that they would again turned back to Him. They didn't lose that position of being 'set apart' as a nation during that time in judgement (captivity). Even when in captivity there were those who had not fallen into sinful ways, they would be part of this remnant.
Is there something in particular in Jeremiah 13 that you are pointing out. The marred girdle?
Sinthesis
Member
Yep.
n2thelight
Member
I can't see how he will force people to denounce Christ,when the deception is,him claiming to be Christ.....People will follow satan because they will think he is Christ,that's what the trib is all about,deception.....Those who are killed will be at the hands of those who think they do God a service
John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."
Deborah13
Member
imo...
In context, there is no mention of any other person representing themselves as Christ or anyone else.
The Jews killed Stephen believing they were doing a service to God. They saw the followers of Jesus as anti-God, the Almighty God of Israel.
That is still their objection to Jesus today.
Daniel Chapter 3 gives us the testimony of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who were forced to bow down and worship the golden image, but refused and paid the consequences of the fiery furnace, yet God protected them while in the fire. This is the same with us that if we do not bow down to this false image of Christ and his economic, political and religious worldly domination we too will face the consequences of possibly being beheaded for not accepting this image of Christ. There will be many that are very weak in faith or just give lip service to the Lord that will accept this false Christ as through fear of not being able to buy and sale, but in all reality be denouncing the true Christ for they never truly knew Him in the first place. We that are truly in the Lord by that of the blood of the Lamb and Spiritual rebirth will be like that of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego trusting in the Lord no matter what we will face as we know who the true Christ is and will never denounce him.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Deborah13
Member
You said, "bow down to this false image of Christ and his economic, political and religious worldly"
Where does it say in scripture that this "lawless one" represents himself as "the Christ"?
It's the son of perdition who claims to be God as he tries to sit in the temple of God showing himself to be God.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rev 13 political and religious power
According to the TOS I can not say what this political and religious power is, but if you go to my website and click on Second Coming of Christ I explain it there.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rev 13 political and religious power
According to the TOS I can not say what this political and religious power is, but if you go to my website and click on Second Coming of Christ I explain it there.
Deborah13
Member
Matt 24:5 - many will come....Yep there has been plenty of those.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
he exalteth himself above all that is call God.
We as Christians know that the Christ, the Messiah is the one true God that came in the flesh.
I interpret this verse as saying, he exalts himself above the Messiah, not as the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Did Nebakanezer say to the three, I am your God the one you worship?
Or did he say that they must worship another god?
At one time, I accepted everything I was spoon fed. Now I am reexamining everything in eschatology.
So my posts to you are not to challenge you but to study wherever that may lead. I do enjoy your posts, as they are well thought out and attempt to be very complete in your understanding. I appreciate that. I looked at your site, when I first noticed it, more than a few weeks ago.
n2thelight
Member
The son of perdition is the antichrist,ie satan himself,live and in color...No mere posession of some man....
Matt 24:5 - many will come....Yep there has been plenty of those.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
he exalteth himself above all that is call God.
We as Christians know that the Christ, the Messiah is the one true God that came in the flesh.
I interpret this verse as saying, he exalts himself above the Messiah, not as the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
Did Nebakanezer say to the three, I am your God the one you worship?
Or did he say that they must worship another god?
At one time, I accepted everything I was spoon fed. Now I am reexamining everything in eschatology.
So my posts to you are not to challenge you but to study wherever that may lead. I do enjoy your posts, as they are well thought out and attempt to be very complete in your understanding. I appreciate that. I looked at your site, when I first noticed it, more than a few weeks ago.
I'm the same way as I use to believe everything that was taught on end times way back in the 80"s and 90's, but somethings just didn't set well with me so in the late 90's I put away all those teachings and started digging deeper into the word for myself. It took me ten years of deep studying and thousands of notes to put together for what I wrote on the second coming of Christ. There is always more to learn and I like to be challenge as it makes me dig even deeper in areas I never looked at before. Thank you for taking the time to go to my website and I love the fact that everyone's input has been on a level of maturity as adults to be able to discuss such a topic. Thank all of you for your input on this topic and keeping it from becoming a battle field between the brethren.
I compared 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10 with Isaiah 14:12-14 to understand it was Satan who said he would sit in the temple showing himself that he is God. Since Satan is also a created spirit he too has to work through those even if they are unaware that he is using them. I believe their will eventually be a one world leader that will control that of the political, economic and religious system that Satan will control and work through as in this person Satan will then sit in the temple of God (not an actual temple) showing the world that he is God and many will bow down to this false image, but we know where his end will lead him.
Nebuchadnezzar never said he was a god, but the golden image was a god and demanded all to bow down and worship the image.
How can Satan be live and in color, as you put it, when he is also a created spirit. God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Deborah13
Member
I think to be true to the OT we would have to admit that angels, which satan is, can take human form. It even says this in the NT.
I agree with you that angels can take on human form. I was replying to what onelove said "The son of perdition is the antichrist,ie satan himself,live and in color...No mere possession of some man...." that Satan as an angel that is spirit and has no form, but can take on the form of man.