Two Options

[veteran]

... Then why are some Christian Churches supporting them? I know, I've already heard the erroneous idea that if they support that it'll help usher in Christ's coming faster, but that's a cop out. It should be obvious that some of today's Churches are leading their congregations to accept the false messish/antichrist that is going to appear there first prior to our Lord Jesus' coming.

What? LOL, no, this is the reason.

Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

It should be obvious that support of Israel so it can defend itself from its enemies is one thing, and support of orthodox Jews in Israel in building another temple for Old Covenant worship is another. How would ANY proclaimed Christian justify theirself in supporting Old Covenant worship and animal scarifices when to accept Christ Jesus means the doing away with that?

 

[Vic C.]

How would ANY proclaimed Christian justify theirself in supporting Old Covenant worship and animal scarifices when to accept Christ Jesus means the doing away with that?

Oh I agree, which has been part of my overall argument. I can't support; scripture doesn't support. It actually negates some scripture not to mention how it undermines the work at the Cross and the whole New Covenant and the simple fact that:

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It is the church in Judea that will be affected by the antichrist that is there.
Jesus said not to enter Judea during that time.I have no need to go to Judea where the antichrist is nor do I need to leave the US .I only need wait till my lord come after the tribulation of those days to put on incorruption.

No need to have any concern for me.Im in good hands .

I am afraid you got hold of some false teaching the rule of the anti christ and the persecution of the church will be world wide.

No the false teaching is taught by yourself.
Though the US is the most powerful country the world has ever seen ,it will not rule the world.It does not have the desire to do so and never will.The king of the north as the scripture calls him,wants peace in the middle east as well as peace for Israel but it will not happen.The US can attempt to save the tiny nation of Israel from itsa enemies but that also shall fail and the US will wipe the middle east off the face of the map after Jerusalem has been destroyed by the muslims.
The scripture calls it the time of the end but the US goverment calls it the nuclear umbrella.

 

[Good News Bob]

Surely Hitler makes an appearance in Revelations. Death or Desolation or maybe even the AC?

If we are somewhere in the midst of revelations, then stuff of the last century were foreshadowed.

 

[jasoncran]

the scripture is clear on the U.S.?

hmm odd dont see any mention of it directly , even the reference to russia are vague(gog and magog).

 

[veteran]

Bob,
look at the 2nd seal of Rev.6, the red horse, a war horse (Mark 13:7). I believe that time has covered from WWI up to now, and will continue until AC arrives. The 3rd seal is a black horse about commerce and famine, which is where I think we are now, and will continue until AC arrives. The 4th seal has similarities to the first three. But the 5th seal is pretty plain, a time of persecution upon the saints, a time of the delivering up of the saints, pointing to a time when AC is here (Mark 13:9-13).

Jason,
The word "chief" in Ezek.38:3 is the word 'rosh' (head, or top). But that's not the main identifier there for Russia. Tubal was identified with the Tabali and Mushki of the Assyrian monuments. Later classical geographers showed they moved farther north near the Black Sea. At minimum today, that area applies to some of the ex-Soviet satellite states. But the most revealing evidence in Ezek.38 that points to Russia's involvement, is who all Meshech and Tubal are aligned with, like Persia (Iran-Iraq-Syria), Libya, Ethiopia (likely Sudan and Yemen, since all that area of old was Ethiopia), and Togarmah (old area of Turkey or Armenia). It's the alignment today that reveals Russia's part.

 

[jasoncran]

true, but the word soviet implies the commie party not the culture itself. i take the rest as i have forgoten that.

 

[watchman F]

It is the church in Judea that will be affected by the antichrist that is there.
Jesus said not to enter Judea during that time.I have no need to go to Judea where the antichrist is nor do I need to leave the US .I only need wait till my lord come after the tribulation of those days to put on incorruption.

No need to have any concern for me.Im in good hands .

I am afraid you got hold of some false teaching the rule of the anti christ and the persecution of the church will be world wide.

No the false teaching is taught by yourself.
Though the US is the most powerful country the world has ever seen ,it will not rule the world.It does not have the desire to do so and never will.The king of the north as the scripture calls him,wants peace in the middle east as well as peace for Israel but it will not happen.The US can attempt to save the tiny nation of Israel from itsa enemies but that also shall fail and the US will wipe the middle east off the face of the map after Jerusalem has been destroyed by the muslims.
The scripture calls it the time of the end but the US goverment calls it the nuclear umbrella.

I never said anything about the US helping Israel. What I am saying is you as a christian will not be safe from persecution during the Tribulation because to live in the US

 

[veteran]

true, but the word soviet implies the commie party not the culture itself. i take the rest as i have forgoten that.

Don't forget what the Russian army and tanks did in Georgia last year when Georgia was trying to join NATO. They also sent Russian war ships into ports of Syria. It ain't over. Russia is not our real ally. And to be a practicing Christian in Russia today, one must join the government controlled state Christian Church. All other Churches are illegal, as it is in Red China also.

 

[jasoncran]

true, but the word soviet implies the commie party not the culture itself. i take the rest as i have forgoten that.

Don't forget what the Russian army and tanks did in Georgia last year when Georgia was trying to join NATO. They also sent Russian war ships into ports of Syria. It ain't over. Russia is not our real ally. And to be a practicing Christian in Russia today, one must join the government controlled state Christian Church. All other Churches are illegal, as it is in Red China also.

see me a link on that, and yes i havent forgotten about Georiga(oseta). but wasnt that in response to the attempt reunify Georgia?

 

[veteran]

true, but the word soviet implies the commie party not the culture itself. i take the rest as i have forgoten that.

Don't forget what the Russian army and tanks did in Georgia last year when Georgia was trying to join NATO. They also sent Russian war ships into ports of Syria. It ain't over. Russia is not our real ally. And to be a practicing Christian in Russia today, one must join the government controlled state Christian Church. All other Churches are illegal, as it is in Red China also.

see me a link on that, and yes i havent forgotten about Georiga(oseta). but wasnt that in response to the attempt reunify Georgia?

The Debka Israeli news source should still have coverage of that. See Worldnetdaily news with many reports on the state operated Church in both Russia and Red China, Voice of The Martyrs also for witnesses on that.

A small part of the state of Georgia wanted to remain under Russian communist rule. The majority there sought to join NATO and get the benefits of western aid in proclaiming itself an independent democratic state. Russia stopped it. This shows Russia still sees the countries around its borders as part of the old 'buffer state' agreement with the West back after WWII. Friends of mine adopted children from Ukaraine from an orphanage. When they went there, they saw how the orphanage still kept the old Soviet flag, etc. When asked about it, they said there was no insurance that the Russian government wouldn't bring Ukaraine back under communist control.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

:gah

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I never said anything about the US helping Israel. What I am saying is you as a christian will not be safe from persecution during the Tribulation because to live in the US

Really.Where might I read where anyone would attempt to harm one hair of my head?
I dont live in the forth kingdom upon earth.Im not of that kingdom.
What is there that you cant understand about that?

Go and learn where the forth kingdom upon earth is and then you will understand .

Have you not read that after the tribulation is when Jesus returns?Well,in the same place Jesus said that he also said it would be like the days of Noah.Tell me then.How was Noah persecuted?
Was he beheaded?Was he killed?Did he hide in a cave?

If after the tribulation ,two shall be in a field and one shall be taken and the other left then which one of those was persecuted?If you dont know the answer then how can you say I would be persecuted?

 

[jasoncran]

vet, add the idea that russia seems to interfere with the ukraine elections and in kyrgygz(i have been there) the president fled to none other then moscow.

shilo i guess that isreal as the beast doenst rule the world in the endtimes then
the beast causes the whole world to follow him.

odd if that isnt the case to be so watchful when it would be a local event.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

vet, add the idea that russia seems to interfere with the ukraine elections and in kyrgygz(i have been there) the president fled to none other then moscow.

shilo i guess that isreal as the beast doenst rule the world in the endtimes then
the beast causes the whole world to follow him.

odd if that isnt the case to be so watchful when it would be a local event.

Perhaps you hadnt noticed jews from all parts of the world have been wondering to Judea since 1948.

It is written that the seven heads of the beast are seven hills on which sits a city.Odd since you say it is the entire world.One city does not the world make.

 

[jasoncran]

vet, add the idea that russia seems to interfere with the ukraine elections and in kyrgygz(i have been there) the president fled to none other then moscow.

shilo i guess that isreal as the beast doenst rule the world in the endtimes then
the beast causes the whole world to follow him.

odd if that isnt the case to be so watchful when it would be a local event.

Perhaps you hadnt noticed jews from all parts of the world have been wondering to Judea since 1948.

It is written that the seven heads of the beast are seven hills on which sits a city.Odd since you say it is the entire world.One city does not the world make.

not all the american jews do, my family doesnt and they aint alone.

so we christians can be fine if we just stay away from isreal. odd what of those two witness, the whole world watches them, they witness and tell the whole world and curse the whole world. not just isreal.

so kosmos means local lands to you.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

so we christians can be fine if we just stay away from isreal. odd what of those two witness, the whole world watches them, they witness and tell the whole world and curse the whole world. not just isreal.

so kosmos means local lands to you.

Yes Jesus said to stay away from Judea in Luke 21;21.

Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains,and let them which are in the midst of it depart out.and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Ive took the liberty of highlighting and making bold the word here so that you might be able to see it ,
Or at least notice it.

 

[veteran]

The Luke 21:21 verse is about the very end. It's about the time of Christ's coming to pour out His cup of wrath upon that great army that comes upon Israel out of the north.

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(KJV)

That's what the "days of vengeance" is about. That's 7th trumpet timing. That desolation is the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Thess.5. It is brought by our Lord upon His enemies at Armageddon by His cup of wrath.

Last time I looked in Revelation, there's 6 previous trumpets with their events that sound prior to that 7th one of Christ's coming with vengeance upon His enemies, and to gather His saints.

So the warning of Luke 21:20-22 is specifically about the last trump. That's when we especially are to stay out of Jerusalem, and for those there in Christ to get out of that area. That does not prove only those in the middleast will be subject to the great tribulation. It only proves where the specific area of Christ's return is and His vengeance is going to be. He's going to stop that army in its tracks.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The Luke 21:21 verse is about the very end. It's about the time of Christ's coming to pour out His cup of wrath upon that great army that comes upon Israel out of the north.

Luke 21:20-22
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
(KJV)

That's what the "days of vengeance" is about. That's 7th trumpet timing. That desolation is the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Thess.5. It is brought by our Lord upon His enemies at Armageddon by His cup of wrath.

Last time I looked in Revelation, there's 6 previous trumpets with their events that sound prior to that 7th one of Christ's coming with vengeance upon His enemies, and to gather His saints.

So the warning of Luke 21:20-22 is specifically about the last trump. That's when we especially are to stay out of Jerusalem, and for those there in Christ to get out of that area. That does not prove only those in the middleast will be subject to the great tribulation. It only proves where the specific area of Christ's return is and His vengeance is going to be. He's going to stop that army in its tracks.

Why are you lieing?

Jesus said Wrath upon "this people"
.

Luke 21;23
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck,in those days.for there shall be great distreess in the land,and wrath upon this people.

Jesus is not talking about a people from a far away land coming to Judea.He is talking about wrath upon the jews themselves.It is they who worship the beast and take his mark.The reason Jesus said not to enter Judea is so you would not commit her abominations and so that you would not recieve her plagues.

 

[veteran]

Why are you lieing?

Jesus said Wrath upon "this people"
.

Luke 21;23
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck,in those days.for there shall be great distreess in the land,and wrath upon this people.

Jesus is not talking about a people from a far away land coming to Judea.He is talking about wrath upon the jews themselves.It is they who worship the beast and take his mark.The reason Jesus said not to enter Judea is so you would not commit her abominations and so that you would not recieve her plagues.

You got a lot of gall claiming that I'm lying brother. If you're trying to say those armies of Luke 21 suffer Christ's vengeance at ANY time before the 7th trumpet, then it's you that are telling lies.

And for others, not you, I will reveal what our Lord Jesus was talking about with those who give suck in those days. If you'd do proper Bible study you would know what it's about.

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, "Fall on us"; and to the hills, "Cover us."
(KJV)


Isa 2:19-21
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
(KJV)

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
(KJV)