Unconditional Election

[JLB]

I have yet to see anyone in this thread deny Scriptures you posted.

Yes I agree, you do not see...

Is it possible you have closed your eyes to the truth?

 

[JLB]

I've been saved for 40 years now, though, and I can assure you. In my case I wanted something else. I had tried the Satanist worldview, and it was destroying everything good in my life. And before I ever picked up a Bible, I had EWTN the Catholic channel on on this little TV, and I suppose that made me curious. But when I got saved, it was originally to simply wanting to live by Christian morality as described in Proverbs. It was only awhile later when I found out that Christ had died for my sins and received Him as Savior.

But thank God, you made the choice to believe in Jesus Christ!

Like everyone else who was saved, they believed; they made the choice to believe, and make Jesus Christ the Lord of their life.

 

[Whatever]

but it strikes me as far more monstrous to believe He wants all these things.

This book was written for people like you. It's $30.54 and 576 pages
What about Evil?: A Defense of God's Sovereign Glory
by Christensen, Scott

What about Evil?: A Defense of God's Sovereign Glory

Reconciling the existence of God and evil is a conundrum in Christian theology, and a philosophical approach rather than a theological one dominates. Turning to the Bible's grand storyline, Scott Christensen examines how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into the broad outlines of redemptive...

www.wtsbooks.com

Reconciling the existence of God and evil is a conundrum in Christian theology, and a philosophical approach rather than a theological one dominates. Turning to the Bible's grand storyline, Scott Christensen examines how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into the broad outlines of redemptive history. He argues that God's ultimate end in creation is to magnify his glory to his image-bearers, most notably by defeating evil through the atoning work of Christ.

Or if that is too much, he condensed it down
Defeating Evil: How God Glorifies Himself in a Dark World
$17.56 - 240 pages
Revised, adapted, and condensed for a broader audience, this companion edition to Scott Christensen’s lauded What about Evil? shows how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into redemptive history. Exploring the storyline of Scripture and addressing practical concerns, Christensen shows that God’s ultimate end in creation is to maximize his glory before his image-bearers by defeating evil through Christ’s atoning work.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you are an elect, this is exactly the way the Holy Spirit works in a person's life. He lets you go as far down as He think is necessary, then he secretly works in your heart so you know there is something missing. Then you just "accidentally" picked up God's word and was convicted by it.

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,

Again, Whatever, I would ask, why did He make me serve Satan before this, and sing his praises? And in the case of some who came out of hardcore Satanism, why did He make them sacrifice children on the altar, and commit other atrocities in the name of Satan?

 

[Whatever]

but it strikes me as far more monstrous to believe He wants all these things. Those are the works of the Devil, not the work of God IMO.

Plain straight Bible teaching comes out that way so some. Have you ever read some of the "New Atheists?"
Richard Dawkins - Christopher Hitchens - Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris.

"Everyone who has eyes to see can see that if the God of Abraham exists, He is an utter psychopath--and the God of Nature too. If you can't see these things just by looking, you have simply closed your eyes to the realities of our world." ~ Sam Harris

"When someone like myself points out the rather obvious and compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we're told that? God is mysterious." ~ Sam Harris

"We read the Golden Rule and judge it to be a brilliant distillation of many of our ethical impulses. And then we come across another of God’s teachings on morality: if a man discovers on his wedding night that his bride is not a virgin, he must stone her to death on her father’s doorstep (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)." ~ Sam Harris

 

[JLB]

This book was written for people like you. It's $30.54 and 576 pages
What about Evil?: A Defense of God's Sovereign Glory
by Christensen, Scott

What about Evil?: A Defense of God's Sovereign Glory

Reconciling the existence of God and evil is a conundrum in Christian theology, and a philosophical approach rather than a theological one dominates. Turning to the Bible's grand storyline, Scott Christensen examines how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into the broad outlines of redemptive...

www.wtsbooks.com

Reconciling the existence of God and evil is a conundrum in Christian theology, and a philosophical approach rather than a theological one dominates. Turning to the Bible's grand storyline, Scott Christensen examines how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into the broad outlines of redemptive history. He argues that God's ultimate end in creation is to magnify his glory to his image-bearers, most notably by defeating evil through the atoning work of Christ.

Or if that is too much, he condensed it down
Defeating Evil: How God Glorifies Himself in a Dark World
$17.56 - 240 pages
Revised, adapted, and condensed for a broader audience, this companion edition to Scott Christensen’s lauded What about Evil? shows how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into redemptive history. Exploring the storyline of Scripture and addressing practical concerns, Christensen shows that God’s ultimate end in creation is to maximize his glory before his image-bearers by defeating evil through Christ’s atoning work.

Do you believe it was God's desire for Adam and Eve to sin?

 

[Hidden In Him]

This book was written for people like you. It's $30.54 and 576 pages
What about Evil?: A Defense of God's Sovereign Glory
by Christensen, Scott

What about Evil?: A Defense of God's Sovereign Glory

Reconciling the existence of God and evil is a conundrum in Christian theology, and a philosophical approach rather than a theological one dominates. Turning to the Bible's grand storyline, Scott Christensen examines how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into the broad outlines of redemptive...

www.wtsbooks.com

Reconciling the existence of God and evil is a conundrum in Christian theology, and a philosophical approach rather than a theological one dominates. Turning to the Bible's grand storyline, Scott Christensen examines how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into the broad outlines of redemptive history. He argues that God's ultimate end in creation is to magnify his glory to his image-bearers, most notably by defeating evil through the atoning work of Christ.

Or if that is too much, he condensed it down
Defeating Evil: How God Glorifies Himself in a Dark World
$17.56 - 240 pages
Revised, adapted, and condensed for a broader audience, this companion edition to Scott Christensen’s lauded What about Evil? shows how sin, evil, corruption, and death fit into redemptive history. Exploring the storyline of Scripture and addressing practical concerns, Christensen shows that God’s ultimate end in creation is to maximize his glory before his image-bearers by defeating evil through Christ’s atoning work.

I appreciate that, Whatever, and I'm not trying to dismiss anything. But I get leery when it's going to take a book to answer a simple and straight forward question. Seems to me there should be an equally simple and straightforward answer, i.e. as a rule, the more dancing around someone has to do, the less inclined I am to believe they are telling me the truth.

 

[JLB]

Plain straight Bible teaching comes out that way so some. Have you ever read some of the "New Atheists?"
Richard Dawkins - Christopher Hitchens - Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris.

"Everyone who has eyes to see can see that if the God of Abraham exists, He is an utter psychopath--and the God of Nature too. If you can't see these things just by looking, you have simply closed your eyes to the realities of our world." ~ Sam Harris

"When someone like myself points out the rather obvious and compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we're told that? God is mysterious." ~ Sam Harris

"We read the Golden Rule and judge it to be a brilliant distillation of many of our ethical impulses. And then we come across another of God’s teachings on morality: if a man discovers on his wedding night that his bride is not a virgin, he must stone her to death on her father’s doorstep (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)." ~ Sam Harris

Another book to explain the mindset of Calvinism?


that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
John 3:15-17


It's always going to be your choice to serve God, or not.

 

[Whatever]

Again, Whatever, I would ask, why did He make me serve Satan before this, and sing his praises? And in the case of some who came out of hardcore Satanism, why did He make them sacrifice children on the altar, and commit other atrocities in the name of Satan?

To show you the sinfulness of sin. You can't realize how far sin can go and how depraved people can be unless you have experienced it. Read the book "The Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boom about being in Nazi concentration camp.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Plain straight Bible teaching comes out that way so some. Have you ever read some of the "New Atheists?"
Richard Dawkins - Christopher Hitchens - Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris.

"Everyone who has eyes to see can see that if the God of Abraham exists, He is an utter psychopath--and the God of Nature too. If you can't see these things just by looking, you have simply closed your eyes to the realities of our world." ~ Sam Harris

"When someone like myself points out the rather obvious and compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we're told that? God is mysterious." ~ Sam Harris

"We read the Golden Rule and judge it to be a brilliant distillation of many of our ethical impulses. And then we come across another of God’s teachings on morality: if a man discovers on his wedding night that his bride is not a virgin, he must stone her to death on her father’s doorstep (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)." ~ Sam Harris

I'm not an atheist, however, nor am I borrowing from atheist thought.

 

[Whatever]

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die. John 12:32-33

Then He failed according to your understanding of that verse. So now you have Jesus either lying or being deluded.

To me Jesus means "all kinds of people out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation" Rev. 5:9
Jesus knew what He was talking about. Complete harmony.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Read the book "The Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boom about being in Nazi concentration camp.

That book I actually read, but I just don't think He would have me worshipping Satan one day and then have me worshiping Him the next. Arial made the point that in a proper theology He would get everything he wants. He wanted me worshipping His enemy and then Him?

It's paramount to He Himself wanting the enemy to be worshipped.

 

[Whatever]

I'm not an atheist, however, nor am I borrowing from atheist thought.

I didn't infer you were. But you did infer that the Calvinist God is as big a monster as Sam Harris thinks He is.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I didn't infer you were. But you did infer that the Calvinist God is as big a monster as Sam Harris thinks He is.

Well actually I was responding to her remark that a God who did not have things exactly as He wanted it would be a monstrous thing. I would have my own answers for someone like Harris. But truth be known, I do just find the whole Calvinist theology illogical, as illogical as they seem to think teachings to the contrary are.

 

[electedbyHim]

Hi Elected,

This again seems runs contrary to my experience, however, just like my previous point that kinda got swept under the rug. I was baptized in the Holy Spirit almost half a year after I believed and got saved. How could I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ long before it if one has to precede the other?

But personal experience does not trump Scripture.

At one point in my life I believed I was saved and believed in Jesus, however, my lifestyle of drukeness and drugs showed me I was self-deceived. I only knew that years later when I was really born again (regenerated). When I was regenerated (born again) that is when His Spirit illuminated to me the written word. 1 John proved to me I was really never saved.

Hidden, I also do not believe the Scriptures teach baptism of Holy Spirit after salvation.

That is a completey different subject.

I believe God was drawing you to Christ as He does all His elect.

@Whatever mentioned this earlier.

These verses are true.....

Ezekiel 36:25 “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and from all your idols.
Ezekiel 36:26 “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to do My judgments.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[JLB]

Then He failed according to your understanding of that verse. So now you have Jesus either lying or being deluded.

Brother, why would you say such nonsense about the Lord.

God desires for us to love Him.

It's up to each person to love the Lord. Love is a choice.

God allows us to choose.

God does not force us to love and obey Him.

And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15

 

[electedbyHim]

Yes I agree, you do not see...

Is it possible you have closed your eyes to the truth?

What is the truth JLB?

You still have yet to prove Unconditional Election is a false doctrine.

 

[JLB]

What is the truth JLB?

Jesus Christ is the Truth.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:6

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is the truth.

His Teachings, His message of salvation, His commandments, His word, are the Truth.


Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

If you abide in Calvinism then you are on your own.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9


Those who teach and promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

 

[electedbyHim]

Brother, why would you say such nonsense about the Lord.

God desires for us to love Him.

It's up to each person to love the Lord. Love is a choice.

God allows us to choose.

God does not force us to love and obey Him.

And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15

God desires for us to love Him.

Unregenerate man is uncapable of loving God, they hate God.

Romans 8:7-8 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.

It's up to each person to love the Lord. Love is a choice.

We only love the Lord because He first loved us.

1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.

God does not force us to love and obey Him.

You sure about that?

Ezekiel 36:27 “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to do My judgments.

 

[JLB]

Unregenerate man is uncapable of loving God, they hate God.

God loves them nevertheless.

We love Him because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19