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Unconditional perseverance study

Bob Carabbio said:
The Bible indicates it - David's SIN (adultery and murder) were forgiven (according to nathan), but there was a "temporal cost" as recorded.
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same as ours,if I kill,I can repent before God bit He isn't obliged to save me from the lawful death penalty or imprisonment
 
Blood Bought 1953 said:
...it is my opinion that “ itching ears” might belong to the Natural Man who attends Church to be assured that even though Jesus might Save, our Performance is also necessary and by being “ good little boys and girls”, “ keeping the Commandments” ( never mind our “thought lives” or “ Sins Of Omission” ) or by making certain our Repentance Ledgers are Spotless on the day that we die.
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No, that's not what is being pushed here.
That's the works gospel.
We're so far down the pike from Paul's war on the works gospel that very few Christians in the true church of God this side of the Catholic Church think salvation is secured through the merit of righteous work.

It preaches good, though. It makes a Bible scholar out of just about anybody who preaches it.
And I think that's why Christians like to rail against the works gospel.
But it's hardly what ails the true church at this time.
It's a problem in the church of the unbelieving world where there are few to no true Christians in attendance.
You know, your Methodist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran type churches.
No offense to anyone attending one of these churches.
I grew up in them and I know that's pretty much where the unsaved people of the world go to church.
When I got saved I was shocked that there was this secret world of the Spirit, and groups of real believers who composed the true church of God.
We don't need to hear your message about the works gospel. We're born again. We know how a person gets saved.
That's not the argument we're leveling here.
That's the argument you are hearing.
 
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Blood Bought 1953 said:
Essentially, it is the same old “Jesus Saves— BUT !” School Of Thinking.Its as old as Cain—-God says “ this way”— But I will do it “ my way”.......
God’s Way is “ NOTHING But The Blood Of Jesus”.....Those with “Itchy Ears” Want their Self-Righteous Egos stroked....
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Lol, no.
Nobody saying that we have to do works to earn our salvation. :lol

Freegracer's are the one's with the itchy ears.
They want their cake and eat it too.
Freegrace delivers for them.
They don't realize if they were truly saved and in Christ they would not still be purposely sinning.

"6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning." - 1 John 3:6

Purposely sinning is the sign of a Christ rejecter. They've either never been saved, or they have fallen away from their faith in Christ. As we see above, John says the person who stays in Christ does not keep on sinning. We know from chapter 1 & 2 that's he not's talking about the struggle with sin all believers have. He's talking about the person who lives unchanged in their lifestyle of willful sin. If they were in him they would not be doing that. They have either never believed, or have stopped believing in Christ. Either way, they aren't in Christ. They are lost. That's what John says, not me. But Freegrace doctrine says a lifestyle of sin is simply your choice as a saved Christian to live that way and has nothing to do with whether you are saved or not because salvation is not by works.
 
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Blood Bought 1953 said:
These are the Lost Souls That will stand before God On Judgement Day and proclaim, Without any Acknowledgement of what Jesus did FOR them, “ Didn’t we do “ this “ FOR you and didn’t we do “ that” for you ? Now give me what I am due!” They will hear , “ depart from me— I never knew you.”
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Yes, so true.
Go tell it to the unbelievers in the church of the world who need to hear it.
For those of us who are genuinely born again and continuing in the faith we have by virtue of our faith the obedience that accompanies faith. We're way past that milk knowledge.

Your message is for unsaved or formerly saved people who don't have any works to validate them as being genuine believers, which comprise the vast majority of Freegracers, IMO.
Maybe some of them did believe at one time and were saved. But there disobedient lifestyles lived in the name of the grace of God declare that they did not remain in Christ. If they had they would not be living lives of willful, purposeful, faithless sin. John says so...

" 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. " - 1 John 3:6

Or is there some secret knowledge, perhaps in a notable commentary that will explain to us simpletons what John really meant and make the verse not really mean what it says?
 
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Blood Bought 1953 said:
Remember in Romans where Paul said he would go to Hell for his “ self-Righteous” Jewish Brothers?The One’s trying to “ establish their own righteousness”. Itchy Ears are soothed by a lulling voice that says, “Relax,Jesus Blood Plus your Performance is what Saves—- and YOU are doing just fine!”
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Yes, so true of unsaved unbelievers populating the mainstream churches of the world.
Not true for us genuinely born again people who know that justification is by faith apart from works. I mean, we're born again. You have to know that to be born again. We're born again.

Freegracers are the ones being soothed by a lulling voice that says, "Relax, your unchanged life of willful, unrepentant sin means nothing about whether you are saved or not because salvation is not by works--you're doing just fine!" Not knowing that if they really were saved and remaining in Christ they would not be living in purposeful sin.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
Not willfully sinning is unrighteous, and willfully sinning is righteous.
The church has fallen a loooong way downward.

Blood Bought 1953 , why are you purposely sinning??????
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Because I am a human being. I am NOT a Sinner because I Sin —- I Sin because I am a Sinner.Just like you.
You are beyond “ purposely Sinning?” Sorry, you are MUcH worse than you think you are. You lack the “ self-insight” to see yourself and your wretchedness before a Holy God.....you sin every hour of every day, just like me and every other human does and most of these sins are done with the full knowledge of what you are doing is a sin.....it’s that small voice that you sometimes ignore — that alarm that says” this is wrong”, but you go ahead and do it anyway ( have you ever gone above the speed limit ? )
I have said it before, and of course it goes ignored by you, but what the Heck, This Computer ink is cheap,I’ll say it again.....I try hard not to sin because sin has pretty much lost its “allure” in my life.Sinning to me is like sticking my hand in a fire! Who wants to continue doing “ that?” Before God Granted me my New Heart, I Sinned with abandon and never felt bad about it —— now if I accidentally step on a worm I feel guilty.....lol.....Things sure have changed..... I got Born Again....I am a “New Creation” I have no desire to “ sin on purpose”...... I know that God will,Chastise me , but even though “ my Spirit is willing” ....sometimes “ my Flesh is weak” ......I am in a War with the World , The Flesh and the Devil. Sometimes , my New Nature wins the Battle, other times I am Foolish and give into the Old Man.....how about you? Do you really think you are fooling anybody ? Put on the “ Armor Of God, do your best to be obedient and man-up and accept God’s Discipline when you fail. Then do the same thing with your sin that God does with it if you are His Child — Put That Sin on the Cross and forget about it. ( I will remember their Sins no more)
 
Blood Bought 1953 said:
...you sin every hour of every day, just like me and every other human does and most of these sins are done with the full knowledge of what you are doing is a sin...
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The difference between me and you is I don't sin on purpose.
I sin out of ignorance, inattentiveness, fear, and weakness, but I simply do not sin outside of any of these reasons. Have I ever? Yeah, probably. And if I can think of one of those times I'll let you know. But as it is I simply do not purposely sin without one of the reasons I've stated leading me into that sin. I'm born again. That's why I'm that way. If I sinned on purpose all the time as you say you are doing I would be showing myself to be an unbeliever:

"6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning." - 1 John 3:6

Why aren't you getting this?????
Where does 1 John 3:6 fit into your theology?
Apparently nowhere. You just ignore it.

What constitutes 'keeps on sinning' in your Freegrace theology?
You are saying that you purposely keep on sinning.
That means you have not remained in Him. You aren't saved.
You have either never really believed, or you have fallen away from faith in Christ.
Why aren't you getting this?
 
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Blood Bought 1953 said:
Because I am a human being. I am NOT a Sinner because I Sin —- I Sin because I am a Sinner.Just like you.
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A sinner is by definition a person who is separated from Christ, unreconciled with Christ.


For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; Hebrews 7:26 NASB


Sinner — Strongs G268 hamartōlos

  1. devoted to sin, a sinner
    1. not free from sin
    2. pre-eminently sinful, especially wicked
      1. all wicked men
      2. specifically of men stained with certain definite vices or crimes
        1. tax collectors, heathen





A person who is saved is called a saint.

to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:7


Saint — Strongs G40 — hagios

  1. most holy thing, a saint




JLB
 
Bob Carabbio said:
I was fortunate enough back in the '70s to attend a NAZARENE (Conditional security) Church in the evenings, because my BAPTIST (Eternal security) Church (which met in a movie theater) didn't have evening service. Fortuitously, BOTH Pastors started a teaching series on "the security of the believer". What was fascinating, was that even though they were diametrically opposed in the subject , they BOTH used many of the same "Proof Texts" (with appropriate spin) to convince their individual congregations that their Denominational Paradigm was accurate. I finally came to the conclusion that: If There's LIVING FAITH (Faith as defined in Heb 11:1 - i.e. a SUBSTANCE, and an EVIDENCE - then "Security" isn't an issue.

The problem comes in IF/when the individual "gets busy" with other stuff, and NEGLECTS their relationship with God, such that their "Living Faith" degenerates into the fading memory of "having HAD a living faith- once".

It's my experience that God DOES send "Wake up calls" - sometimes pretty brutal ones -
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Please share more about the op which is about
Unconditional Perseverance.


What does this phrase mean?



Thanks JLB
 
JLB said:
Please share more about the op which is about
Unconditional Perseverance. What does this phrase mean?
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Just another religious "Buzz word" for "Once saved always saved"/"Eternal security" depending on which paradigm you ascribe to.
 
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