Growth Understanding Baptism ?

[eddif]

Now the first thought will probably be: when will Jesus baptise in Holy Spirit and fire.
When?
John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you

Jesus goes to the right hand of the Father and sends Holy Spirit. When ?

Day of Pentecost mighty rushing wind (ever wonder why he breathed on them ?), and tongues of fire. Sons and Daughters of Joel.

eddif

 

[LovethroughDove]

If Jesus is preaching repentance, and the kingdom is preached till Pentecost how does Holy Spirit baptism start before Pentecost.

The kingdom message being the internal rather than the external shadows.

Make me say what I intend to say. I have a picture in my head, but often I do not use enough words to paint that pictures for others to see,

eddif

You are correct. The Holy Spirit wasn't given to believers until Pentecost. I'm sorry if I made it sound like water baptism stopped the moment Jesus got baptized. He had to go back to the Father first, but now we have been baptized in the Spirit. I fast forward to present day baptizing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Here's the thing. I was sharing with you the events that led me to know the truth. You have said I haven't posted scripture, which I did all through this to show the truth about the water now. When it says baptism after Jesus's baptism, it is the Holy Spirit baptism. You didn't answer me when I asked you if Jesus washes our feet with literal water. That is because you are stuck on the water as being literal water baptism. There is no scripture after Jesus's baptism that we have to do the baptism of John (water). We are to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I still love the Catholic church for aspects of it. I don't resent it, through my upbringing I found Jesus.

I bet you would not have adopted the doctrine you have if you had not been hurt concerning this matter of water baptism.

You have said I haven't posted scripture, which I did all through this to show the truth about the water now.

I don't know that I'm the one who has been accusing anyone of that. Maybe I did. But the point is, the scripture you provide does not show that water baptism is now no longer commanded.

You didn't answer me when I asked you if Jesus washes our feet with literal water. That is because you are stuck on the water as being literal water baptism.

No, actually the reason is I didn't see it's relevance to the discussion. So I didn't give it any thought. Make the point you're trying to make clearer.

I still love the Catholic church for aspects of it. I don't resent it, through my upbringing I found Jesus.

I started out being against the Catholic religion. Then I cut it some slack after I listened to some of their reasons why they go so blatantly against scripture. But now I see it is a horribly false, evil church. I really do. Not all individuals in it, but as a religious entity, their doctrines are so utterly corrupt and false.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You didn't answer me when I asked you if Jesus washes our feet with literal water.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I did address this matter to someone in this thread.

 

[reba]

When it says baptism after Jesus's baptism, it is the Holy Spirit baptism. .

Where do the scriptures say this?

 

[reba]

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I did address this matter to someone in this thread.

yes you did over and over then again 2

 

[LovethroughDove]

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I did address this matter to someone in this thread.

yes you did over and over then again 2

Explain..... please. Reba?

 

[reba]

There was/is a long very long conversation on the foot washing topic..

 

[eddif]

You are correct. The Holy Spirit wasn't given to believers until Pentecost. I'm sorry if I made it sound like water baptism stopped the moment Jesus got baptized. He had to go back to the Father first, but now we have been baptized in the Spirit. I fast forward to present day baptizing.

I think they want us to discuss foot washing LOL, and I can a little later.

Let me fast forward to your present day comment.
It depends on who you are talking to:
Individual I:
Realizes sin (John's baptism)
A. He has repented (great)
B. He needs to be baptized into Christ Jesus for eternal life. You might discuss foot washing, but I would suggest getting salvation first.

Individual II:
A. He has repented (great)
B. He / She has accepted Jesus (wonderful)
C. I would suggest empowerment for service (Jesus gave the great commission, but suggested receiving / being baptized in Holy Spirit [Before] being able to witness ).

Repent
Be baptized into Christ Jesus for salvation
Be empowered to go witness

Now:
We might discuss foot washing
Jewish background (lawfull use of Law)
Various sacraments
Errors in modern day churches
Church discipline
etc.

But only after
Repenting
Accepting Jesus
Receiving power

Till those steps are complete you ask did you receive Jesus as Lord
Or
Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

If you get negative answers you can only revert to knowing Jesus Christ and him crucified. I can not push certain things. I love symbolism, but there are only a few that have any idea about I Corinthians 9:9 area . The oxen discussion just leaves folks shaking their head in wonder ( what is he talking about?).

Did I say anything? I tried to discuss various aspects of baptism in Holy Ghost and fire.

Redneck from Mississippi
eddif

 

[Ph8th]

I think they want us to discuss foot washing LOL, and I can a little later.

Let me fast forward to your present day comment.
It depends on who you are talking to:
Individual I:
Realizes sin (John's baptism)
A. He has repented (great)
B. He needs to be baptized into Christ Jesus for eternal life. You might discuss foot washing, but I would suggest getting salvation first.

Individual II:
A. He has repented (great)
B. He / She has accepted Jesus (wonderful)
C. I would suggest empowerment for service (Jesus gave the great commission, but suggested receiving / being baptized in Holy Spirit [Before] being able to witness ).

Repent
Be baptized into Christ Jesus for salvation
Be empowered to go witness

Now:
We might discuss foot washing
Jewish background (lawfull use of Law)
Various sacraments
Errors in modern day churches
Church discipline
etc.

But only after
Repenting
Accepting Jesus
Receiving power

Till those steps are complete you ask did you receive Jesus as Lord
Or
Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

If you get negative answers you can only revert to knowing Jesus Christ and him crucified. I can not push certain things. I love symbolism, but there are only a few that have any idea about I Corinthians 9:9 area . The oxen discussion just leaves folks shaking their head in wonder ( what is he talking about?).

Did I say anything? I tried to discuss various aspects of baptism in Holy Ghost and fire.

Redneck from Mississippi
eddif

WOW!
You should write a book ...........

 

[JLB]

I believe what the Scriptures show: After adding the Gentile to the body of Christ with the Jew, to make one new man out of the two.. From Cornelius on, Jew and Gentile received the Holy Spirit at regeneration. (Act 10: 44-48) The Jew was no more a Jew, The Gentile was no more a Gentile. The body of Christ became one new man.
About Simon, he had repented or converted but was never regenerated. For if he had received The Holy Spirit, he would not have been surprised at the others receiving The Holy Spirit. (Acts 8: 13-20). And this event happened before the inclusion of the Gentiles. Note* Look at what Philip was preaching (Acts 8:12). And Paul (Acts 20: 24-25) (Acts 28: 31) (Acts 19: 8)

This happened after the house of Cornelius.


And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6

• Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? This is self explanatory. If receiving the Holy Spirit was automatic, when we believe and are born again, then Paul would not have asked them, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1

• We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit. And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” These had already been baptized in water, what was lacking was for them to believe on Jesus Christ and be born again.

“John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.



At this point, they are born again and Baptized, and as of yet they have not received the Holy Spirit, just exactly like those in Acts Chapter 8, in Samaria, which was before the house of Cornelius.

Verse 5 says - When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


They have not yet received the Holy Spirit, though they believed in Jesus Christ and were born again and baptized in water.

They did not receive the Holy Spirit until the next verse.


JLB

 

[grams]

those verses say nothing about baptism

And you think getting Baptized is not of works????????????????

 

[Douglas Summers]

This happened after the house of Cornelius.


And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6

• Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? This is self explanatory. If receiving the Holy Spirit was automatic, when we believe and are born again, then Paul would not have asked them, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1

• We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit. And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.” These had already been baptized in water, what was lacking was for them to believe on Jesus Christ and be born again.

“John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.



At this point, they are born again and Baptized, and as of yet they have not received the Holy Spirit, just exactly like those in Acts Chapter 8, in Samaria, which was before the house of Cornelius.

Verse 5 says - When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


They have not yet received the Holy Spirit, though they believed in Jesus Christ and were born again and baptized in water.

They did not receive the Holy Spirit until the next verse.


JLB

Hi JLB, I can not answer that question at this time. I simply do not know for sure. But you and I received the Spirit when we were saved without the laying on of hands. I see many that say they are Christians saying that the Spirit does not exist now. What does that tell you about them? I will study it in depth and see if we can satisfy the question with the correct answer. Please do so too if you would.

 

[JLB]

But you and I received the Spirit when we were saved without the laying on of hands.

No sir.

I received the Holy Spirit, with the evidence for all to see and hear, when the man of God laid hands on me.


JLB

 

[eddif]

And you think getting Baptized is not of works????????????????

Well kinda.
But listen to works of law vs grace.

Under Law:
II Chronicles 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

Whose work does it depend on? People
........,,,,

Under Grace:
I Peter 2:24 KJV
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Who did work? Jesus.
John the Baptist said
Matthew 3 :11 KJV
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John the Baptist was not just repent, but repent and believe. Your belief is in the works of Jesus Christ on the cross. To me there is a world of difference in works of the Law and Grace that came by Jesus.

I am still so glad you are here. Here you will be loved with rod and staff. Or rolling pin if Reba sees the need. I have had at least one rolling pin shook at me. I feel like a child of the kingdom when she is at work.

The bible verses we depend on, and not just our group.

Context might be about oxen in the OT / OC but we learn from The NT / NC that the ox stands for a preacher. Hidden things are hidden in other contexts / areas ( some may not agree).
For instance:
The original way plants were watered changed with the covenant after the flood. A rainbow promised no destruction by flood. If you can see John's baptism with Christ being lifted up (like a rainbow) as a promise of eternal life, then you may not feel so much like baptism is a work we do (but a work God did). Of course I just got off into symbolism in another context and lost 7/8 of those reading this. If you can accept being baptized in the sea and cloud it helps understanding. No I haven't been into any of my homemade shine (quit that years and years ago. - by grace).

Mississippi folks are really strange
eddif

 

[Douglas Summers]

No sir.

I received the Holy Spirit, with the evidence for all to see and hear, when the man of God laid hands on me.

Are you saying that the laying on of hands is essential to receiving The Holy Spirit?

 

[JLB]

Are you saying that the laying on of hands is essential to receiving The Holy Spirit?

No, you can receive the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands or the Holy Spirit can come upon you without the laying on of hands.


What I have said, and am saying again is receiving the Holy Spirit comes with a manifestation that those around you can see and hear, as demonstrated in all the scriptures I posted.



JLB

 

[ezra]

we get the Holy spirit the moment we are saved -which gives us the power to live the Christian life and do the things God wants us to do.

 

[JLB]

we get the Holy spirit the moment we are saved -which gives us the power to live the Christian life and do the things God wants us to do.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which Paul and the Apostles calls "receiving the Holy Spirit", is different than Baptism in water.

...for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1:5


...having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever. 1 Peter 1:23

Baptism comes after we are born again, that is to say after we have received the incorruptible word [Gospel Message].

Phillip gives the example -

34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See,here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
Acts 8:34-37


THE MAIN POINT -

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

These people in Samaria, had received the word of God, [Gospel Message] by which they had been born again, and went on to be baptized in water, so up to this point, they had not received the Holy Spirit.

17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.


The baptism of the Holy Spirit, does not happen ["automatically"] to us, at the moment we are born again.



JLB

 

[ezra]

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which Paul and the Apostles calls "receiving the Holy Spirit", is different than Baptism in water.

...for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1:5

i never said it was . the comment was made one can get the Holy spirit by laying on hands. the baptism of the spirit take place at the new birth . 1 Corinthians 12For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.14For the body is not one member, but many.…