Growth Understanding Baptism ?

[ezra]

No one is paying attention .......... We are now following Paul and not the Apostils at this time............

yes we are paying attention i have asked several times for scriptures saying we do not need to be baptized

 

[reba]

grams the Scriptures are the Word of God not the words of John Peter or Paul.. In their intirity they are God's Word... I do not follow Paul i follow Jesus..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

llCorn.
5:
17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new

Gal. 2:
16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.




20
I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Gal. 3:
23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed

You make the mistake of thinking that being baptized means you are categorically and without exception trying to justify yourself through that work.

 

[grams]

You .................. need........................ to ........... understand ............ who is ........... talking !!

AND TO WHOM ????? ???? ??? ??? ???

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You .................. need........................ to ........... understand ............ who is ........... talking !!

AND TO WHOM ????? ???? ??? ??? ???

'All nations' is pretty clear to me (Matthew 28:19-20 NASB).

Even if water baptism was a relic of the old covenant (which it is not), it isn't unnecessary except for the express purpose of being justified by it. But it's also true that EVERYTHING a person does (besides believing) is unnecessary to be justified (made righteous in God's sight). Including 'love your neighbor as yourself', because the only thing that justifies is the forgiveness of God received as a free gift through believing in that free gift.

So, everything else we are commanded to do, now that we are justified through faith in the blood, is simply the expected and obligatory show of that faith. Like the servant in Matthew 18:23-35 who was forgiven his debt. The expectation was that, now that he was forgiven his debt, he would act in a manner consistent with the grace he had received. That's what obedience in the Christian faith is all about (Titus 2:11-13 NASB).

'I don't have to' seems to be the mantra of the present Protestant Church (generally speaking, of course). She (the church) is oblivious to the fact that what 'I don't have to' means is you don't have to do anything (besides believe) to earn justification. But we have lots of things commanded of us that we 'have' to do because they are the actions commensurate with someone who has repented and has received the forgiveness of sin through the blood of Christ and has been set free from wickedness (Acts 26:20 NASB).

Simply put, not getting water baptized can potentially be the evidence that a person has not believed in Christ to the point of affecting a born again experience. Thus the point of Jesus' statement, “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16 NASB italics mine). The person who can't, or won't, demonstrate his faith in God by his obedience to be water baptized may not be doing so because he does not truly have the new life of the believer through faith in Christ. They lack the expected outward evidence of genuine change that faith in Christ affects--obedience to the righteous commands of Christ. John put it this way:

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" (1 John 3:10 NASB)

 

[LovethroughDove]

The Holy Spirit has replaced the water baptism once Jesus sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

Acts 2:38-40 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off - for all whom the Lord our God will call." With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

It doesn't say they were submersed in water. They accepted the message.

 

[reba]

Trying to understand something i will put this on a parent hood scale..
you tell the kids to clean their rooms..
later that day you say it is your turn to do the dishes ... does that then imply they do not need to clean their rooms?

 

[LovethroughDove]

I'll bite.

You tell the kids to clean their rooms, they tried to do it but it wasn't quite right so you go in there and do it. Then you go as far as to say I hired a maid to make sure this is not getting neglected.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Holy Spirit has replaced the water baptism once Jesus sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

Replaced water baptism in regard to what?
Your answer will probably reveal your misunderstanding of water baptism. The misunderstanding that is causing you to think that we don't have to obey the command to do it anymore. And considering the particulars of the story you shared earlier in this thread I suspect I know where you got that misunderstanding from.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'll bite.

You tell the kids to clean their rooms, they tried to do it but it wasn't quite right so you go in there and do it. Then you go as far as to say I hired a maid to make sure this is not getting neglected.

Ah, yes.
I'm convinced you have an erroneous understanding of the function of water baptism in the life of the believer. What did water baptism do that the Holy Spirit now does for us such that we don't have to be water baptized now?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Ah, yes.
I'm convinced you have an erroneous understanding of the function of water baptism in the life of the believer. What did water baptism do that the Holy Spirit now does for us such that we don't have to be water baptized now?

The water baptism was getting a heart ready for the Holy Spirit baptism.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Jethro - you and I agree on the washing of the feet. Is Jesus literally washing us with literal water?

 

[grams]

lltim. 2:
15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

There was a time PAST - But NOW - Ages to COME ------

Some just do not get this ........ we are to follow Paul, not the Apostils at this time...

Who is talking and to Whom ?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

 

[grams]

Of course the whole Bible is for us.............BUT ----not to us?

That is were the trouble comes to some of us , not understanding this........................

 

[ezra]

you know what it does ABSOLUTELY NO good to talk about water baptism it being no longer needed unless scripture is given. so far all i have seen on the objective of water baptism. is opinions { The water baptism was getting a heart ready for the Holy Spirit baptism.} show your scriptures to back up what you say.
Matthew 28:16-20New International Version (NIV)
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, " baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you> always, to the very end of the age.” i have requested scripture saying no need to baptize . my self i am tired of beating a dead horse

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The water baptism was getting a heart ready for the Holy Spirit baptism.

No. If that was true, Peter would not have directed Cornelius and his household to be water baptized after they received the Holy Spirit.

"Then Peter answered, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10:46-48 NASB).

If you understood what water baptism is for you'd understand that it in no way shape or form has it been replaced by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Of course the whole Bible is for us.............BUT ----not to us?

That is were the trouble comes to some of us , not understanding this........................

Like I say, you simply have an erroneous understanding of water baptism. Most likely because the Catholic Church taught you that misunderstanding. They believe it justifies a person, if I'm not mistaken. Therefore, your reasoning is, since you now know justification is by faith all by itself (which it surely is) we don't have to be water baptized anymore. The problem is, that is not what water baptism is for, so your conclusion that it doesn't have to be done anymore is wrong. And so I say, you are defending against one erroneous doctrine with your own equally erroneous doctrine.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro - you and I agree on the washing of the feet. Is Jesus literally washing us with literal water?

The reason the literal washing of feet is not required of us today is because it taught us to practice humility through a then culturally understood and accepted way to do that. A way that is largely obsolete in our modern western societies. But water baptism is not a cultural vehicle through which the lesson it teaches us is now somehow obsolete by virtue of changing cultural need and understanding.

 

[ezra]

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

no body is going to disagree with that. baptism DOES NOT SAVE us or make us clean .its symbolic much like communion .the wine /grape juice represent the blood jesus shed for us. the unleavened bread represents the broken body of Christ . show scripture where water baptism is no longer to be