Understanding Mary - Mother of God

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WIP said:
Mungo, I honestly do not believe we will ever come to agreement about this but so be it.
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I agree but I think there is more we could discuss.
Back in post #85 I asked "If Jesus did not get his human nature from Mary then where did it come from?".
EIther I didn't get an answer or I didn't understand the one I got.
If Mary didn't supply the egg that into Jesus in her womb, then from whence did it come?
Did God implant a newly created embryo in her womb so that she was just a surrogate?
Or what?
 
jaybo said:
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary is the mother of God. Nowhere.
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Why should you expect a particular title to appear in the Bible?
Where is the word "Incarnation" in the Bible?
Where is the word "Trinity" on the Bible?

What do you think Elizabeth meant by calling Mary the "mother of my Lord" (Lk 1:43)
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Yes Sir, but, I was just showing that belief, but not in agreement with it because of that kind of faith in which I'm not a Catholic, but my faith is to believe in our Lord Jesus Christ.

By ThoughtCo
Updated on May 04, 2019
The Catholic religion was established in the Mediterranean region during the first century CE by a small group of Jewish men and women, one of several sects which were all bent on reforming the Jewish faith. The word "Catholic" (which means "embracing" or "universal") was first used to refer to the early Christian church by the bishop and martyr Ignatius of Antioch in the 1st century.

Key Takeaways: Catholic Religion​

  • Catholicism is a Christian religion, a reformation of the Jewish faith that follows the teachings of its founder Jesus Christ.
  • Like other Christian religions as well as Judaism and Islam, it is also an Abrahamic religion, and Catholics consider Abraham as the ancient patriarch.
  • The current head of the church is the Pope, who resides in Vatican City.
  • There are 2.2 billion Catholics in the world today, 40 percent of whom live in Latin America.

According to figures from the seat of the church, the Vatican in Rome, there are currently 1.2 billion Catholics in the world today: 40 percent of them live in Latin America.

What Catholics Believe​

The Catholic religion is monotheistic, meaning that Catholics believe that there is only one supreme being, called God. The Catholic God has three aspects, known as the Trinity.
The Supreme Being is the creator, called God or God the Father, who resides in heaven and watches over and guides everything on earth. He is known as the lord of heaven and earth, and referred to as almighty, eternal, immeasurable, incomprehensible, and infinite in understanding, will, and perfection.
The Holy Trinity is made up of the Father (God), who has no origin and holds the sole power of creation; the Son (Jesus Christ) of God, who shares the wisdom of the Father; and the Holy Spirit, which is the personification of goodness and sanctity, arising from both the Father and Son.
The legendary Founder of the Catholic Church was a Jewish man named Jesus Christ who lived in Jerusalem and preached to a small group of followers. Catholics believe he was the "messiah," the son aspect of the Trinity, who was sent to Earth and born to redeem those who sin against the true religion. Christ is said to have had a human body and a human soul, identical to other humans except that he was without sin. Important religious events which are said to have occurred in the life of Christ are a virgin birth, miracles he performed during his life, martyrdom by crucifixion, resurrection from the dead, and ascension into heaven.

Significant Historical Figures​

None of the individuals named in the Catholic religion as significant or sanctified figures have powers of creation, and as such, they are not to be worshiped, but they can be appealed to for intercession in prayers.
Mary is the name of the human person who was the mother of Jesus Christ, a resident of Bethlehem and Nazareth. She was told by an archangel that she would give birth to Christ as a virgin, and would remain a virgin after the birth. On her death, her body went through the process known as "the assumption," becoming the Queen of Heaven.
The Apostles were the original 12 disciples of Christ: led by Peter, a Galilean fisherman who might have been a follower of John the Baptist first. The others are Andrew, James the Greater, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the Lesser, Jude, Simon, and Judas. After Judas committed suicide, he was replaced by Matthias.
Saints are people who lived an exceptionally holy life, including many martyrs from the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE, and afterward, are said to reside eternally with God in heaven.
The Pope is the supreme pastor for the Catholic church. The first pope was the apostle Peter, followed by Clement of Rome around the year 96.

Walter
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This is off-topic.
Please keep to the topic
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Continued from above:

  • To have faith in Jesus Christ means to trust Him and obey His commandments. Faith is much more than passive belief. We express our faith through action—by the way we live.
    People also ask
    What does it mean to have faith in Jesus Christ?
    To have faith in Jesus Christ means to trust Him and obey His commandments. Faith is much more than passive belief. We express our faith through action—by the way we live. These resources are to help you prepare for the “Learn together” section of the meeting.
    What does it mean to have faith in Jesus Christ?
    www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/youth/learn/ap/atone…


    Search for: What is faith and why does it matter?
    Why do we need the faith of Jesus in our lives?
    This is why we need the faith of Jesus in our lives, so that we may become partakers of the divine nature and then the keeping of God's commandments comes as a result of our faith and being partakers of the divine nature.
    What is the Faith of Jesus Christ? - End time
    www.end-times-prophecy.org/faith-in-jesus-christ.html
    Search for: Why do we need the faith of Jesus in our lives?​


  • www.compellingtruth.org

    What is faith in Jesus? What does it mean to have faith in Jesus?

    What is faith in Jesus? What does it mean to have faith in Jesus? What are the elements of faith?
    www.compellingtruth.org
    Having faith in Jesus means not only agreeing with the fact that He can save, but trusting in Him that He both has and will save you. There are a couple things to remember about faith in Jesus that are vital to a humble recognition of God's work of grace in us and to a proper attitude of gratitude to Jesus Christ for who He is and what He has done.
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This is off topic.
Please keep to the topic.
 
Mungo said:
I'm simply asking you what you believe.
Why is that so hard to say?
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The question is about truth. What is the truth? There are many things we believe that may or may not be true. What we believe and what is truth are two entirely different things. You are the one that made the claim that Mary is the Mother of God. You therefore, have the burden of proof. Just because you believe it, does not make it truth. I'm more interested in knowing the truth of God not what someone believes of God, unless of course, they are one and the same. I once believed God did not exist. I now know I was wrong.
 
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WIP said:
The question is about truth. What is the truth? There are many things we believe that may or may not be true. What we believe and what is truth are two entirely different things. You are the one that made the claim that Mary is the Mother of God. You therefore, have the burden of proof. Just because you believe it, does not make it truth. I'm more interested in knowing the truth of God not what someone believes of God, unless of course, they are one and the same. I once believed God did not exist. I now know I was wrong.
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I once wrote a spoof guide for Catholics debating with Protestants (though with some truth in it).
The first point was:
1. Catholics are wrong. There is no need to justify this truism, we just have to accept it and move on.
 
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Mungo said:
Why should you expect a particular title to appear in the Bible?
Where is the word "Incarnation" in the Bible?
Where is the word "Trinity" on the Bible?

What do you think Elizabeth meant by calling Mary the "mother of my Lord" (Lk 1:43)
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She meant that in the future she would recognize Jesus as her lord.

Simply because a particular English word doesn't appear in a translation means nothing.
 
Mungo said:
And, as Thomas proclaimed, Jesus is Lord and God (Jn 20:28)

And simply because a particular title doesn't appear in a translation means nothing.
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I don't think your replies make much sense.

I wrote that Elizabeth meant that in the future she would recognize Jesus as her lord. And you replied "And, as Thomas proclaimed, Jesus is Lord and God (Jn 20:28)" So what? That has nothing to do with Elizabeth's comment.

I also wrote that simply because a particular English word doesn't appear in a translation means nothing. And you responded with "And simply because a particular title doesn't appear in a translation means nothing".

Neither of your replies make any sense. They are simply changing the subject.
 
jaybo said:
I don't think your replies make much sense.
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They make a lot of sense to me.
jaybo said:
I wrote that Elizabeth meant that in the future she would recognize Jesus as her lord. And you replied "And, as Thomas proclaimed, Jesus is Lord and God (Jn 20:28)" So what? That has nothing to do with Elizabeth's comment.
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There is no suggestion in the text that Elizabeth is saying she will, at some future time, recognise Jesus as her Lord and God. She is addressing Mary NOW. She is calling Mary the mother of my Lord NOW.

She doesn't address Mary as the mother of my Lord that I will one day recognise as my Lord and my God.
jaybo said:
I also wrote that simply because a particular English word doesn't appear in a translation means nothing. And you responded with "And simply because a particular title doesn't appear in a translation means nothing".

Neither of your replies make any sense. They are simply changing the subject.
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No they are not changing the subject. I have shown that the title of Mother of God is valid and Biblical. It does not need an exact statement to that effect, although I would say that Elizabeth's calling Mary the mother of my Lord is specific.
 
Mungo said:
They make a lot of sense to me.


There is no suggestion in the text that Elizabeth is saying she will, at some future time, recognise Jesus as her Lord and God. She is addressing Mary NOW. She is calling Mary the mother of my Lord NOW.

She doesn't address Mary as the mother of my Lord that I will one day recognise as my Lord and my God.


No they are not changing the subject. I have shown that the title of Mother of God is valid and Biblical. It does not need an exact statement to that effect, although I would say that Elizabeth's calling Mary the mother of my Lord is specific.
Click to expand...

So Elizabeth is declaring her fealty to a fetus?
 
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