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Understanding the Two Resurrections

Lets hear from Paul

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

It is important to understand the word "quickened", Remember in verse 22 Paul stated; "in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive." This Greek word for "quickened" is the same Greek word for the "coming alive". It means that all, sinners and saints are made alive through Christ. It doesn't mean that the soul is raised to eternal life, for the soul is not the subject here, but the question is what happens to the physical body?

It means to "revitalize" [# 2227 in Strong's] the soul, and become conscience and ready for judgment. This doesn't mean that all souls are saved, but that all souls are given life to continue as they were. If that soul was lost, it will still be lost, but the final death will not take place until after this age of the flesh is over, after the Millennium age, and the Great white throne judgment is finish. Then will be the time of the "second death" or the death of the lost souls. It means that the soul has put off the flesh body, and put on their spiritual body, but their soul is still condemned to death if it is not in right standing with God.


You have to be able to separate those things to understand the resurrection. Paul is now going to explain our flesh body to us, not the soul, the spirit, or our thought process, but our flesh and blood body.

I Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:"

Paul is comparing our flesh body with other living things, such as a grain of wheat. When the seed is separated from its parent plant it is as naked as a new born baby. This is the body of the wheat, and this is not the grain that you see coming for in new plants next year. This seed of wheat that you set aside for the next years crop is what must die before it can raise up again in a new form. That body of wheat is gone, and that is what happens to our flesh. It must die before the new beautiful spiritual body can come forth.

The flesh body must die and be buried in the ground, for no where is it recorded that a flesh body will resurrect from the dead. Christ's body did rise again, for it paid the price for our sins for one and all times. However, when Christ's body came out of the tomb, it had to be transfigured or flesh man simply could not see Him.

The body of the wheat or of flesh that dies and is planted in the ground is not the same body that springs forth into new life. It is the Spiritual body that ascends to be with the Father, not the flesh. Again the subject is the physical body.

When you plant any seed, flowers, corn, or wheat, there is an embryo deep inside of the body of that plant. As the body of the parent plant decays, it feeds this little embryo that is deep within that seed or kernel of corn. Then when the water, and temperature, and soil are just right, then that embryo springs forth into new life, and a new plant is formed. That is exactly as it is with our flesh body, the old flesh body must die before the new life of our new spiritual of soul body can come forth. The time that it takes for the new spiritual life to come from the death of the old flesh body is instant.

The instant that the flesh body dies, the soul and spirit body is present with the Lord that gave it in the first place. The flesh decays back into the elements of the earth that it is made of, and your soul returns to the Father. Paul could not have made it more simpler than the using of a grain of wheat in comparison to our flesh bodies. Just as all of nature functions, so it is with man.

I Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body."


I Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."

Remember that we are still talking about flesh body, and not the soul. The fact that each of these types of creatures are not all created alike. The dog, or cat, or robin, or fish all look different in their body structure, because their physical bodies were all created differently. They don't look alike, nor act alike yet in their own ways each of them have their own beauty. When the dog has her pups, you know that a fish or a cat will not come from that dog, for she will give birth to a dog. Plain and simple as it is for it is given by God according to His plan.


Those people that teach that the dead body is going to rise up out of the grave simply don't know what they are talking about. Flesh causes you to sin, and when we are done with this flesh body, it is done away with. Why would you want any part of that old decaying body. The flesh body dies to give your spiritual body new life and a new body that will not age and get sick.

I Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

We are still taking about bodies, and not souls. "celestial bodies" are heavenly bodies, while"terrestrial bodies" are earthly bodies. Paul is telling you that within what you call "self", you have two bodies, and earthly body that will die off and return to the elements that it is made of, and a heavenly body or soul that at the death of the earthly body returns to the heavenly realm or dimension that it came from. Each of the bodies have their own glory or dignity and honor.

I Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory."

This is as it is, and it is for this reason that God calls His children "stars". God asked Job to give Him answer to this question in Job 38. Job 38:7; "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Each of the stars are different and so are each of the children that God created. Every one of them has a different body. Yet every last one of them was created for God's pleasure.

Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created."

I Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:"

This is what happens to the dead body, for this body is doomed to corruption of decay from the day each of us are born, to the day we die. That is the ageing process, and no matter how you try to extend your life, it will not be for more than a few years. When this flesh body is finished, the soul that is within it is raised in incorruption. We are talking about flesh bodies, and what happen to them.



I Corinthians 15:43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:"

In Adam we all die in the flesh, but in Christ we are raised incorruptible. Even sinners are replenished and brought back to their incorruptible state, some to be held for judgment and their trial and some for eternal rewards. Your flesh body is not what is judged, but your soul that is within that flesh body is returned to the Lord to for its rewards.

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.


It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.


http://www.theseason.org/1corin/1corin15.htm
 
Isaiah 29:9-14
Stay yourselves, and wonder;
cry ye out, and cry:
they are drunken, but not with wine;
they stagger, but not with strong drink.
For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep,
and hath closed your eyes:

the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed,
which men deliver to one that is learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee:
and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee:
and he saith, I am not learned.
Wherefore the Lord said,
Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth,
and with their lips do honour me,
but have removed their heart far from me,
and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people,
even a marvellous work and a wonder:
for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

A truly beautiful working of God. Very much still in effect.

Have you ever considered the deep sleep that overcame Adam when the woman was created?

In Acts 2, Peter says they are not drunk with wine, but this is that spoken of by Joel: visions and dreams, and the spirit of slumber?

We know from Jesus exactly what happened to Adam. Mark 4:15. The same working that is upon all natural men. They can not see it. Romans 11:32/2 Cor. 4:4. It is impossible for any natural man to see it. Hence the need for God's Direct Vivification. Otherwise it remains a no go.
 
Can't be true,we are not dust,we only had it(flesh)for this age,at death we put off the flesh(dust)and return to the body we already had.....We were never meant to be made flesh....

Ive asked this question before ,what kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman?We were like the angels,did they have flesh bodies?No they did'nt,nor did they need them...

One must understand that we were with the Father before being born...

Why do people think we need that dust,especially when scripture says we have two bodies...

One,the flesh goes back to dust never to be needed again,the other is who we really are,and steps out at death,or the return of Christ,whichever comes first....


I suppose if a person decided to leave what the scriptures say, and just go on with their opinion, then one could just about rewrite the truth of the bible to say whatever they decided to dream up.

Which is why you have no scriptures in your post. :shrug

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:42-45

  • "It" here in these verse's represents the same body.

It's still our body, that has been transformed or changed from a natural body to a spiritual body, that is immortal.

  • Jesus had the same body that He died with that had been transformed.
  • The nail prints in His hands were still there, however His body had transformed.

His body is now spiritual, that is compatible with both heaven and earth.

We will have a body like the angels, who have bodies that are spiritual.

Our body that has died will be raised from the dust, immortal and incorruptible, just like Jesus' body.


53 For this corruptible must put onincorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:53-4

Paul said it this way in his second letter to the Corinthians -

4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed,that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 2 Corinthians 5:4


The caterpillar doesn't get a new [as in different] body, but rather it get's a new [as in transformed] body, that we call a butterfly.

Does the caterpillar leave the cocoon, and a butterfly come to takes it's place, while no one is looking?

No. The caterpillar is transformed into a butterfly.

Similar to the way the New Covenant, is not a new [as in different] Covenant, but a new [as in refreshed; or renewed] Covenant, having taking on qualities that it did not have before.

Our bodies, that have died and been buried, will be raised from the dead, transformed: spiritual and immortal.


JLB
 
Just so we understand the question here, and so you may see that they were indeed your words.
I said:

You said:
Here are the words that you said:

"Which means physically dead". You even made the font bold for emphasis, it is right there it is in your own words.

Yes, the prerequisite to being resurrected from the dead, is to have physically died.

I have said that several times.

Here is your words that I referred to as not mine:

Your insistence that it is a prerequisite to be physically dead in order to be dead in Christ.


Here are my words:

....the prerequisite to being resurrected from the dead, is to have physically died.



JLB
 
If you haven't figured it out yet, then I doubt anything more I say to you will really matter; I've said enough. Maybe instead you should go back and start over at the beginning of the OP and read again with an open heart the content of the posts for what they are instead of trying to judge them for what they are not.

If you can, please write out in a sentence, the point you are making, if you don't believe that a person doesn't have to be physically dead, in order to be resurrected from the dead.


JLB
 
I Corinthians 15:51 KJV
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I Thessolonians 4:16 KJV
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I know we all see through a glass darkly. I have a glare issue when welding. So the corny statement about #14 lenses. That is too dark, but to avoid glare sometimes I use that dark. It depends.

If we go through the scriptures over and over (study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) we are led into truth.

I know sleep and die are not the same word.
John 11:11 KJV
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

Now I hope we can see:
Hebrews 10:5 KJV
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

"When he cometh into the world" I guess to fulfill prophecy he needed a body on earth to get it all done.

We are studying mysteries, and sometimes it takes a trip through 4 stomachs to extract the energy from the bacteria. The ox digests the paramecium (if that is the way it goes). I thought for a time we digested the bacteria. Wrong. The paramecium gets the energy and the 4th stomach digests the paramecium.

Jesus reclaimed that devoured by death and we eat his body. This has gotten pretty complicated for a Mississippi redneck.

eddif
 
Yes, the prerequisite to being resurrected from the dead, is to have physically died.

I have said that several times.

Here are my words:

....the prerequisite to being resurrected from the dead, is to have physically died.



JLB

Thank you for unequivocally stating your position.


2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

What is this treasure that we have in our earthen vessels? How can we have this treasure in our earthen vessels if the earthen vessel must physically die first?


Romans 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

If we must first physically die to be planted in the likeness of his death, how then shall we then also be in the likeness of his resurrection?


1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

If as you have stated now these many times now, that the prerequisite to being resurrected from the dead is to have physically died, then why does Paul describe the resurrection of the dead as being first sown in corruption before it can be raised in incorruption? Are you awaiting your physical death so that you may be sown in corruption? For this is the resurrection of the dead, and we have this treasure in our earthen vessels: it is sown in corruption, raised in incorruption. So also is the resurrection of the dead: it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.


These are serious questions about the scriptures, and I would expect that you JLB, as one who is says he is trying to teach, would actually take the time to carefully and thoughtfully answer the questions that I have asked of you for each of the scripture references that I have posted here. Please do not respond by posting other scripture references. I simply want you to answer in your own words specifically the questions I have asked you concerning these specific scriptures. Nothing more.
 
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If you can, please write out in a sentence, the point you are making

This is an actual sentence, words written out to form a thought, so that if you read carefully, you might actually understand the point that I am making.

If you are awaiting the resurrection of the dead at the last day and the coming of the Lord, then you are awaiting the resurrection at the SECOND DEATH. When you say that it is a prerequisite to have physically died before you can be resurrected from the dead, then you do not understand the resurrection of Christ as you should, and the meaning of the FIRST RESURRECTION seems to be lost upon you. Do you not understand the nature of our death and resurrection in Christ? The Resurrection at the last day when the Lord shall appear in the glory of the Father is the SECOND DEATH. Blessed is he who has his part in the FIRST RESURRECTION, on such the second death hath no power.
 
I suppose if a person decided to leave what the scriptures say, and just go on with their opinion, then one could just about rewrite the truth of the bible to say whatever they decided to dream up.

Which is why you have no scriptures in your post. :shrug

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:42-45

  • "It" here in these verse's represents the same body.

It's still our body, that has been transformed or changed from a natural body to a spiritual body, that is immortal.

  • Jesus had the same body that He died with that had been transformed.
  • The nail prints in His hands were still there, however His body had transformed.
His body is now spiritual, that is compatible with both heaven and earth.

We will have a body like the angels, who have bodies that are spiritual.

Our body that has died will be raised from the dust, immortal and incorruptible, just like Jesus' body.


53 For this corruptible must put onincorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:53-4

Paul said it this way in his second letter to the Corinthians -

4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed,that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 2 Corinthians 5:4


The caterpillar doesn't get a new [as in different] body, but rather it get's a new [as in transformed] body, that we call a butterfly.

Does the caterpillar leave the cocoon, and a butterfly come to takes it's place, while no one is looking?

No. The caterpillar is transformed into a butterfly.

Similar to the way the New Covenant, is not a new [as in different] Covenant, but a new [as in refreshed; or renewed] Covenant, having taking on qualities that it did not have before.

Our bodies, that have died and been buried, will be raised from the dead, transformed: spiritual and immortal.


JLB

Did not Paul say we have TWO bodies?
What need will we have of the flesh after death?None!!!!

You have the answer in your response,you just refuse to see it,or can't

The flesh was only meant for this earth age.
Yes we do have bodies like the angels,it comes out at death or the return of Christ,whichever comes first

Yes Christ rose with His body,for as it was written He couldn't see corruption,when He went back to Heaven He had to be transfigured

Did the angels ever have a flesh body?No,they didn't

My point is,we will have the same body we had before being born of woman,simple as that!!!!!

We were with God before being born,and we had a body,the same one that shall step out of the flesh at death!!!!!

What kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman?
 
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Yes, the prerequisite to being resurrected from the dead, is to have physically died.


JLB
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
 
John 1:14 KJV
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus entered the flesh world of man to break the curse of Adam.

Jesus is our only hope for the bad condition reba describes.

eddif
 
II Corinthians 4:7 KJV
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The power that changes us belongs to God:

Where does this idea of a wonderful pre existing body come from? I understand angels in heaven (from scripture). Show us these spiritual bodies from scripture.

Where did Jesus discuss this? Changed by grace into a new creation I understand. His work not our goodness.

eddif
 
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

What is this treasure that we have in our earthen vessels? How can we have this treasure in our earthen vessels if the earthen vessel must physically die first?

I have no idea, as the phrase resurrected from the dead is not mentioned in this verse.

The treasure within us is Christ.

Romans 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

If we must first physically die to be planted in the likeness of his death, how then shall we then also be in the likeness of his resurrection?

4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:4-5

Baptism as stated by Paul is being buried with Him in the "likeness" of His death.

It is also mentioned that we by the Spirit "put to death" the deeds of the flesh... and that those who Christ's have crucified the flesh.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

and again

And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24


In none of these cases is the body "physically dead", which is the point I have made.

In order to be resurrected from the dead, a person must have physically died.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4;15-17


Paul contrast's the two groups that will be physically caught up together, at the coming of the Lord.

Those who are physically dead, and those who are physically alive.

  • And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then
  • we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The physically dead will rise first.
Then, the physically alive will be caught up together with them.


JLB
 
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Yes. We are joined to the Lord, and are one spirit with Him.

Though we are physically alive on the earth with a physical body, we are joined to the Lord spiritually.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

We are "one spirit" with Him, and joined with Him as He is seated in heavenly places.

This does no mean our physical body is dead.

When we physically die, our spirit leaves the body, as is present with the Lord.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:1-8


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

In order to be resurrected from the dead, a person must have physically died.


JLB
 
Did not Paul say we have TWO bodies?
What need will we have of the flesh after death?None!!!!

You have the answer in your response,you just refuse to see it,or can't

The flesh was only meant for this earth age.
Yes we do have bodies like the angels,it comes out at death or the return of Christ,whichever comes first

Yes Christ rose with His body,for as it was written He couldn't see corruption,when He went back to Heaven He had to be transfigured

Did the angels ever have a flesh body?No,they didn't

My point is,we will have the same body we had before being born of woman,simple as that!!!!!

We were with God before being born,and we had a body,the same one that shall step out of the flesh at death!!!!!

What kind of body did Christ have before being born of woman?

This sounds Mormonish.
 
Where does this idea of a wonderful pre existing body come from? I understand angels in heaven (from scripture). Show us these spiritual bodies from scripture.

Where did Jesus discuss this? Changed by grace into a new creation I understand. His work not our goodness.

eddif

Quite a complex question, really.

We know that we are "technically" already seated in heavenly places in Christ for example:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We know that we have what is, in effect, a spiritual deposit:

2 Corinthians 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 5:5

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

We also know that The Word, Jesus, IS Alive and Active, working IN us.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

We also know that we are "born" of incorruptible seed" which is The Word (Jesus) of God:

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And, all of the above (and more), as such, causes us to see, currently, TWO states of existence with us already:

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

We also know there is a conflict in these two bodies:

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

And, as a direct result of this conflict, we do not see as well as we should see, by Divine Intention:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

We also know from this that as such, we do not presently see how we shall appear, even though NOW, we are presently sons of God:

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The "earthen vessel" that contains these matters presently is meant to pass away. The "dust or clay" container will not be moving on.
 
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Romans 6:11 KJV
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You gots to die before you die.

Soil is made up of minerals, decaying plants, dung, rotting flesh, (etc.).

Inside this body we live in is a heart.
If we go to the parable of the sower- Matthew, Mark, Luke; we find the word of God planted in men's hearts. If we do not die to our carnal prusuits our ground is not very fertile. A broken heart provides minerals. Someone else will have to explain contrite.

We are not spending much time looking at the spiritual inside the flesh man. In fact we are not looking at the new creation that is eternal much at all.

We are all eternal. Just some men have eternal life in Christ Jesus, and some are eternal punishment receptiors at the resurrection.

As long as my ego is alive not much spiritual growth will take place. A hammer mill is needed on a chunk or two of my heart. Thank goodness we receive a heart of flesh through what Jesus did. The Holy Spirit strives against he flesh.

Just about too deep for Mississippi folks trying to float using gourds. Makes you rely on Jesus.

eddif
 
Quite a complex question, really.

We know that we are "technically" already seated in heavenly places in Christ for example:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We know that we have what is, in effect, a spiritual deposit:

2 Corinthians 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 5:5

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

We also know that The Word, Jesus, IS Alive and Active, working IN us.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

We also know that we are "born" of incorruptible seed" which is The Word (Jesus) of God:

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And, all of the above (and more), as such, causes us to see, currently, TWO states of existence with us already:

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

We also know there is a conflict in these two bodies:

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

And, as a direct result of this conflict, we do not see as well as we should see, by Divine Intention:

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

We also know from this that as such, we do not presently see how we shall appear, even though NOW, we are presently sons of God:

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The "earthen vessel" that contains these matters presently is meant to pass away. The "dust or clay" container will not be moving on.
Well I read this after the above post, Actually I was referring to the spiritual body some are saying pre dates our physical body (if I even said their statement even close to right).

Something gets changed. Something may already be changed. A seed dies but the result is alive.

Boy it will be great to get the welding glasses off.

eddif
 
We are all eternal. Just some men have eternal life in Christ Jesus, and some are eternal punishment receptiors at the resurrection.

As long as my ego is alive not much spiritual growth will take place. A hammer mill is needed on a chunk or two of my heart. Thank goodness we receive a heart of flesh through what Jesus did. The Holy Spirit strives against he flesh.

Just about too deep for Mississippi folks trying to float using gourds. Makes you rely on Jesus.

eddif

It is quite easy for me to see TWO ressurections from the dust of our bodies.

Here is an example from Paul, of what was contained in his own dust/earthen vessel/clay body:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul was resurrected to eternal life. The other party awaits it's final resurrection unto eternal damnation. I might even surmise that same messenger is presently inhabiting another flesh container now, and probably several more since it departed the flesh of Paul. See Rev. 1:7 for a closer look at "them." The "kindreds" of the earth. Even the wicked angels who pierced Him, who were IN those men who did so, are still on earth in men when Jesus arrives.

1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels?
how much more things that pertain to this life?

Holy angels are not in need of dire judgments.

So from Paul, from his own dust, two resurrections transpire. Just as Daniel noted here:

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The angels we judge are in fact, our own, in this present life. The wicked messengers that exist in our own thoughts. And these will be collectively judged at the end of their 'time.'

We just tend not to see these things very well, presently:

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil
, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

These matters are not overt in the scriptures. They are only meant for "some" eyes to see. And not other eyes. When we are honest, we WILL see our own wicked messengers in our own flesh, with our own spiritual eyes. The eyes of flesh are Divinely blinded to these matters, purposefully so.
 
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Well I read this after the above post, Actually I was referring to the spiritual body some are saying pre dates our physical body (if I even said their statement even close to right).

I don't believe in the preexistence of the soul, BUT if we are sons of God, then by right that demands not just a preexistence, but an eternal existence prior. The portion of God we presently have has always existed and always will.

God knows what the wicked angels will do, long before they do it. I might even say it's scripted.
 
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