I agree.
And the only way to be more righteous than a Pharisee is to actually quit sinning.
Thank God for making the way for that to happen !
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Unique, Not Only-Begotten
- Thread starter SolaScriptura
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And the only way to be more righteous than a Pharisee is to actually quit sinning.
Thank God for making the way for that to happen !
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Then what qualifies as "being God" by your criteria? What is your definition of "God"? "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Again, Jesus is God in the form of a man. If you deny God can appear in the form of a man, then you're putting God in a box.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
You have no relationship with God through Jesus. You are behaving like that pharisee the whole time.
John wrote that we could tell if we knew God by us keeping His commandments.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
If we keep His commandments, we will know we know Him.
How does that apply to a man who won't keep His commandments ?
Carry_Your_Name
Member
John was warning about the tares admist the wheat, the wolves amidst the sheepfold, they are always there until Jesus returns. And please respect the OP, don't derail the thread to preach your heresy of sinless perfection, thanks.
?
But aren’t you doing that? You’re limiting God to a created man who isn’t eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent. Sounds like a box to me.
You’re making the mistake of conflating Jesus with God Himself, who said He isn’t a human, set clear laws against deifying created things, animals, and humans like Jesus. Believe it or not, but Jesus is the example of what it attainable for someone with God’s anointing. Case in point, anything Jesus had or did in the Bible others also did, maybe even more in some cases. Can you do what God does?
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Oh the irony. The tares are believing they’re the wheat now. This won’t get sorted out until God brings Jesus back. For sure.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
God is the creator, he is not created by anyone. If you truly believe that he's eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent, then it's his prerogative to manifest as a man in order to communicate with his people. I'm not limiting him to a man, I accept him through the only way to know him, which is Jesus. You're the one who's limiting his capability by denying that he could manifest as a man. You're like the unbelieving Jews at Jesus's time who made the exact same arguments that the invisible God couldn't appear as a visible man, and any mentions of the messiah as a man, such as Is. 53 was "spiritualized" to represent the nation of Israel.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
God had brought forth many litmus tests over the decades to separate the wheat from the tares. What's your stance on premarital sex? Abortion? Evolution? Homosexuality? Forced inclusivity of other religions? Forced government shutdown? Israel's statehood? Transgender? Threats of banning the bible for being hate speech? Your answers to these determine whether you're wheat or tare. There used to be some gray area for you to equivoate, but now it's getting narrower and narrow, almost gone. You know, it really saddens me you guys have your heads buried in a theological rabbit hole, debating these theology for no purpose and no reason other than feeding your ego, as though talking your fellow believers down could please God instead of taking a stand against this demonic culture that has infiltrated the church. That is the biggest irony.
Its about the Son not just the Son of Man. Jesus has always been the Son.Hebrews 1:2, God spoke through the son to create the universe in "these last days" beginning ~2,000 years ago? Are you sure?
Take a look at Hebrews 1:2 in a lexicon. The word they often translate as "universe" is actually aión. It refers to an age or a cycle of time. The universe wasn't created 2,000 years ago my friend. I hope this shorter post will catch your attention.
Yes, I am very sure Jesus is Gods Firstborn and that He is all that the Father is.
Same writer contrasting the Superiority of Jesus's sonship VS the Angels of God.
He also says,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end
When God brings the firstborn into the world He commands all His angels to bow to Him.
Col 1
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of al creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
You see the testimony. "Before ALL things"
Rev 3:14
And to the angel of the church in La-odice′a write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.
Do you believe at all in the preexistence of Jesus as a being before He came down from heaven? Or do you believe His life began in the womb of Mary and He was then exalted?
Correct and Jesus is created. He's a human made out of the same compounds and elements as all other humans. Do you claim otherwise?
You seem to be misunderstanding what I said. God is absolutely omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent but Jesus isn't. My point is that Jesus is not God. God did not manifest as a man. Where did you get that idea?
The Father is Jesus' God. Jesus is not his own God. Your premise doesn't follow.
You left off an important part of verse 10. It begins with "And" meaning the Lord being mentioned is a reference back to the previous person mentioned. The last person mentioned in verse 9 is God who is clearly not Jesus.
But not bowed to as God. Jesus is bowed to for the glory of God the Father only.
Phil 2
9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place
and gave Him the name above all names,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Previously addressed your misunderstanding and you didn't read the thorough exegesis I provided. It refers to the context of the church.
Revelation 3:14 says Jesus was created.
Where did you get Jesus is His own God? As I stated He has always been the Son. Gods Firstborn Its about that Son. The Son who was, (His spirit), was in the body God prepared for Him. He came down from heaven from the Fathers presence as the only such eyewitness of God speaking of things He saw and heard.
1John the eternal life with the Father from the beginning. That life appeared.
1John 1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.
I didn't leave that false context out. "Its about the Son not the Father as the writer is contrasting that Son vs the angels of God.
Bow down to who? The Firstborn of God
Yes one God the Father and One Lord Jesus but in the Son the fullness was pleased to dwell. Col 1:19
As the beginning of Gods creation. Gods Firstborn and before all things. All those things He's before God brought into existence through, by and for Jesus.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Again
Col 1
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For in him all things were created:things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peacethrough his blood, shed on the cross.
Is Jesus God?
He never dies
Yes, He is all that the Father is
No, He has always been the Son
I hold to this:
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
"... the head of every man is Christ; ... and the head of Christ is God."
1 Cor. 11:3
This verse means the head of Christ is the Father, it doesn't mean the head of Christ is the Trinity.
Me too. So what's the problem? One God, also known as the Father, and one Lord (of the Church) Jesus Christ.
Perhaps you're still conflating the One God known as the Father with the Lord of the church, Jesus. It is often overlooked that there is a divine hierarchy.
Jesus is Lord of the Church - Colossians 1:18
God is the Lord of Jesus - 1 Corinthians 11:3
The church belongs Jesus - 1 Corinthians 3:23
Jesus belongs to God - 1 Corinthians 3:23
And it means Jesus is not God, hence God is the head of Christ.
It could be interpreted that way if there were not a plethora of other verses, all throughout the Bible, that declare Christ to be God.
Since the Bible makes it clear that Christ is God, we know it doesn't mean that Jesus is not God.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Also, I have to say that 1 Corinthians 11:3 using the word HEAD does not have agreement of scholars as to what Paul meant.It could be interpreted that way if there were not a plethora of other verses, all throughout the Bible, that declare Christ to be God.
Since the Bible makes it clear that Christ is God, we know it doesn't mean that Jesus is not God.
It could have even meant SOURCE according to some theologians.
Some verses or words might be difficult to understand,
but you're right on with your point....one verse or one word does not dismantle an idea that runs throughout the NT.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
You misunderstood me. My point is that Jesus is God's presence on earth, he's the one and only intermediary between man and God, without him there's no other access to God, whenever you say "God", that's just your vain imagination.
It could be interpreted that way if there were not a plethora of other verses, all throughout the Bible, that declare Christ to be God.
Since the Bible makes it clear that Christ is God, we know it doesn't mean that Jesus is not God.
Ok, fair enough. Will you please provide me with the clearest and most explicit declaration of Jesus to be God in the Bible?