God is a spirit. (Jn. 4:24)
Spirits don't have offspring like humans, and animals, do.
Unique, Not Only-Begotten
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Spirits don't have offspring like humans, and animals, do.
Humans aren't born from just a woman like Christ was. They must be conceived with a man and a woman.
Christ had no human dad involved in His conception.
How does that work?
Right.
Even as "I AM" though it is a known reference to declarations made by God in the OT.
So when Jesus says "I AM", He is declaring to be the God of the OT.
Not that you were contesting that, just pointing it out for some who need to know that.
The KJV uses red lettering for the entire verse there.
Even if it didn't, it says "saith the Lord".
Don't make me laugh at you unnecessarily.
I hope the staff here makes the decision to limit your use here to only a specific forum or two, or simply send you on your way. What you are doing here is not edifying or productive in the least, it is repulsive.
You have zero sincerity, zero reverence for the Scriptures or God and you are only here to cause division and erode the faith of the sincere members here. Contrary to popular teaching, the Bible does not say that we are to love everyone and God ... HATES ... sinners. The way you are conducting yourself here is absolutely disgusting. I hope you are dealt with soon by the staff or God Almighty as you are making a mockery of His Word and His honor.
Acts 4 says the "holy one of God" is not not himself God, but rather God's servant. Seems I know what the Bible is talking about after all. You may also note that it isn't Jesus who actually did healings, signs, and wonders but rather God himself doing it.
Acts 4
23On their release, Peter and John returned to their own people and reported everything that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant, our father David:
‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.’
27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen. 29And now, Lord, consider their threats, and enable Your servants to speak Your word with complete boldness, 30as You stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”
I am just using John 17:3 since it plainly proves that there is only one God known as the Father in very clear and explicit terms. Rather than trying to disprove John 17:3, I recommend you believe it if you are a Christian.
Jesus is not the "I AM." I'll look at it with you. The I AM is the Father, also known as YHWH. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus is God's servant, therefore he is not God.
Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.
Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
Okay, well you are cherry picking like one of the only versions that uses red letters.
Do so if you wish.
I'm a Christian. I have accused you of nothing. Though I must admit your disrespectful words toward me are off-putting. I like this forum and plan to stay a very long time. I have not violated any forum rules nor received any warnings. What sin do you charge me with?
Oh?
Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.
How does that make your case that Jesus didn't come down from heaven as the only such eyewitness of the Father?
John 1:18
He is stated before all things and that GOD the Father, from whom all things exist, brought all things into existence, through Jesus, through whom all things exist except His own being. He has always been that Son. About that Son not just the Son of Man (Hebrews 1) as contrasted against the angels of God
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began
I read and now Father, return to me, the glory I had with you before the world began
Jesus's life was before the world began not something that began in Mary's womb. Even though the church states He had a rational soul that began in Mary's womb. I tell you the Son who was, His Spirit, was in that body. He came down from heaven. That life, who was with the Father from the beginning, appeared and was testified to by the Apostles.
1John 1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.
You show this to state He is not God the Father but you ignore that all things came by or though Him.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
You ignore Hebrews 1 in its entirety. That being was before the world began which God brought into existence through Him. The God who spoke to us by Him in these last days. As Jesus stated, the Father living in Him, doing His work. They are ONE.
You ignore what Paul, who received by revelation by God, wrote in regard to who Jesus is. And that beginning isn't in Mary's womb.
The Supremacy of the Son of God
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.- About that Son Hebrews 1
The Fullness was gifted not formed and from the will of another Col 1:19 The nature found in that Son is all the fullness of God the Father. The Fathers Deity (without limit) lives or dwells in Jesus from His beginning at some point in history before the world began. Jesus is all that the Father is and in that context He is Mighty God who sustains all things by His powerful word. And in Him all things hold together.
Jesus is the beginning of the resurrection of the righteous from the dead and the Firstborn (first) to rise from the dead.
Likewise Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God and the firstborn (first created-His spirit) of that creation. Gods Firstborn, A Son
One can acknowledge the nature found in the Son - all the fullness of the living God, (The Father) -they are "ONE"
One can acknowledge the Fathers works performed by the Son by that given nature as all things were brought into existence through Him and "For" Him. Which demonstrates the great love the Father has for His Firstborn Son.
And Still know and believe the one who gave Him that nature and defined Jesus's being is truly the only true God and Jesus's God.
One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ
Because Jesus spoke the truth.
All things come from the Father according to 1 Cor. 8:16. That means all things don't come from Jesus in accordance with he is not God.
Once again, you're making the error of applying literalism when Jesus doesn't have a pre-existence. It refers to the foreknowledge of God.
Revelation 13:8 is a clear demonstration of this. Jesus was not crucified before the world began, but one time in Israel.
8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
All things point to Jesus being a human who God created.
Previously addressed. The disciples were not there at the beginning of creation to see, hear, or touch anything. This passage refers to the "word of life" as an it.
You ignore that all things come from God, not Jesus.
This proves that there is only one God known as the Father.
Hebrews 1:1,2 refers to the ages being created, in these last days (about 2,000 ago) when God spoke through the Son. God didn't speak through the Son before this hence why there are no quotes by Jesus in the Old Testament. It plainly says God spoke through the prophets.
Just a bunch of your non-scriptural opinion and commentary. Also I have previously addressed all of these things.
Begin here:
John 17
3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
He stated He came down from heaven and spoke of ascending where He was before. "Truth"
All things did come from the Father and they came by, through and for the Son. He as stated is the beginning of the creation of God before all things. "Firstborn of all creation. Firstborn from the dead. He was given the supremacy in all things.
I don't know how you can read the NT and not know the creation was made through Him. Besides I know Him. He ascended to where He was before. Ephesians 4:10 John 6:62
Rev 13:8 does not weaken explicit testimony in regard to Jesus's supremacy. That He is before all things and God brought all those things into existence through and by and for Him. Gods plan of salvation was noted in place before the world began.
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
Hebrews 1 states other wise about the Superiority of Jesus's Sonship as contrasted to the very angels of God.
That life appeared the one described as the eternal life who was with the Father in the beginning.
The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
All things come from God including His Firstborn Son that He sent down from heaven.
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation
There is only one God the Father from whom all things came but there is also one Lord Jesus Christ through whom all things came.
This is what it states. Its clear to me.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
As opposed to your very minority opinion. This is not a Biblical Unitarian forum so I guess you just like to argue.
I know Him do you? Because the Jesus I know was begotten from the Father alone before all things. And in Him it did please all the fullness to dwell. He is the radiance of Gods Glory and the exact representation of Gods being sustaining all things by His powerful word. And God brought into existence all things by, through and for His Firstborn Son. At the appointed time a body was prepared for Him and His spirit was placed in that body as one who came from the Fathers presence in heaven and testified to what He saw and heard as the only such eyewitness of the Father.
The only references to Jesus in the Old Testament were prophetic and not fulfilled until later. He didn't exist saying or doing anything in the old testament. John 1:1-14, the word "logos" (a word, speech, or divine utterance) became flesh. It basically means God manifested Jesus out of His foreknowledge. Jesus came down from heaven where he existed in God's thoughts to earth where he was born. John 6 is about the one the only true God sent.
Verse about what Jesus was doing in heaven if he was literally there?
Who gave Jesus his authority?
The creation of the church was through Jesus. That's it.
You can't use John 17:5 as a proof-text for the literal pre-existence of Jesus when the clear example from Revelation 13:8 is undeniably not literal.
And John 17:3 says the Father is the only true God. You seem like maybe you're getting close to figuring out who God is.
Yes, the word of life is an it. John 1:1 is just personification of something that isn't even a person. The best translation for John 1:1 is that the "word was what God was" i.e., godly, not God Himself.
Great then if all things come from God and those things that come from God are also not God then why do you make an exception for Jesus?
There is only one God the Father....
Check out that word "universe" in a concordance. Real eye-opening. It doesn't mean the physical universe. It refers to an age or a cycle of time.
Hebrews 1:1,2 in the Berean Literal Bible words it like this:
1God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages,
I'll hold the majority opinion that matters in the end. I hope to see you there.
Revelation 7
9After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one was able to number it, out of every nation, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, having been clothed with white robes, and palm branches in their hands. 10And they were crying out in a loud voice, saying:
“Salvation to our God,
the One sitting on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”
None of that exactly says Jesus is God because many of those points apply to regular Christians too. You should know this.
Irrelevant as He came from His Fathers presence and testified to what HE saw and heard.
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.
Irrelevant as Jesus has always been the Son - The firstborn of all creation; The beginning of the creation of God; Before all other things except His God and Father. He has received all that He is and inherited all things from His Father.
You continue to reject John, Hebrews, and Paul that state "GOD" created all things through and by and for Him.
You don't accept their testimony so you won't accept mine.
I can believe Him that He ascended to where He came from -the Fathers presence as the only such eyewitness of God.
I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father
I have always known that. One God-from whom all things came; One Lord-through whom all things came.
Jesus whom John testified about is still that life and He is a living being.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Jesus is my Lord. In Him it did please the fullness to dwell. He is all that the Father is and in that context He is God. He has always been the Son and in that context He is not God. Gods firstborn. Begotten from the Father before all things which the Father brought into existence by and through Jesus.
Feel free to look at all the english translations. The meaning is clear to them. Why are you unable to hear?
Colossians 1:19 - The Supremacy of Christ
For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him,
biblehub.com
In these last days God has spoken to us BY His Son.
Jesus-It is the Father living in me doing His work.
God created all things BY His Son
To me Likewise- The Fathers Deity living in Him doing His work. As in God created through Jesus
Just as the Son of Man testfied the Fathers works He performed should be seen as a sign that the Father is in Him and they are one.
This is about the Son who was before all things. The Firstborn
Though amplified this captures the meaning well. The eternal life found in the Son is the Father.
Amplified Bible
For it pleased the Father for all the fullness [of deity—the sum total of His essence, all His perfection, powers, and attributes] to dwell [permanently] in Him (the Son),
A son who is called Mighty God was given in our behalf.
You are unable to hear. You still don't recognize the Firstborn.
He was in the world, and the world was created[a] by him, but the world did not recognize him
[A] John 1:10 tn Or “was made”; Grk “came into existence.”
A literal translation between languages such as Koine greek and english is not the same thing as the same meaning.
But even spelled out you are unable to hear,
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Now your not being truthful.
I have found this to be as stated in the testimony.
Nicene creed- through Him all things were made
And? Who is that lamb found worthy of worship by the host of heaven? Christ the Lord who is the very image of the invisible God.
I have already told you.
Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.
Irrelevant? Then nothing else to give you regarding. Your attitude toward sound doctrine and scripture is duly noted.
You're rejecting them.
Verse about what Jesus was doing in heaven before?
It seems this is purely ad hominem. I know your misunderstanding about me won't age well.
One God the Father through whom all things came. You deny this apparently.
They continued referring to Jesus as a man decades after he was carried to heaven. When you pray, you call God a man?
The fullness of God can dwell in anyone.
Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
But he is not the Father and therefore he is not God.
Matt 23
9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
God is God in every context, however, you are correct that he is not God.
Firstborn refers to rank among siblings. God is not your spiritual sibling.Gods firstborn. Begotten from the Father before all things which the Father brought into existence by and through Jesus.
Feel free to look at all the english translations. The meaning is clear to them. Why are you unable to hear?
Colossians 1:19 - The Supremacy of Christ
For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him,biblehub.com
I already addressed this man. Did you pull out a concordance and actually look into this? The universe itself was not created through Jesus.
The context of those passage refers to the church. I can't help you if you will not actually read the context of passages you're quoting.
No one ever called Jesus mighty God in the Bible because he isn't the Everlasting Father.
Read John 1:9 about the True Light (God) that gives light to every man coming into the world. That means Jesus isn't the God giving light to himself. As you know, the true light is God, not Jesus.
1 John 1
5And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
You have demonstrated your rejection of scripture thus far.
Your message is just laced with ad hominem, accusations. The accuser of the brethren is Satan. It isn't a good look for you to do what Satan does.
The one on the throne is God and the lamb is not God.
Rev 21
22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Jesus died. When Jesus died, did God die? If God died then your position would be that there is no God. You really haven't through this through at all it seems. It seems you just have a bunch of church dogma. What denomination do you belong to?
We are going in circles and you are unable to hear anything in regard to Jesus as a being before Mary gave birth to Jesus.
You deny the explicit stated Supremacy of the Son. The beginning of the creation of God and the Firstborn of all creation as in before all things. I assume you do acknowledge Jesus is the beginning of the resurrection He spoke of and the Firstborn from the dead. But He was given the Supremacy in all things.
I find to deny the preexistance of the Son is untenable from scripture. We will have to agree to disagree. Because repeating ourselves over and over isn't accomplishing anything but taking up our time.
And Firstborn from the dead means the first to rise from the dead.
The same language in that passage of scripture in regard to Jesus as stated He is Firstborn of all creation or as Rev 3:14 the beginning of the creation of God. Before all other things.
I agree in part.
Begotten of the Father before all ages but not made.
Again feel free to read ALL the translations. The meaning is not born again but all the fullness of God from the will of another.
Colossians 1:19 - Bible Gateway
But again we will have to agree to disagree because I am getting tired of repeating myself to deaf ears.