Unveiling the Truth: The Bible's Second Chance for Salvation

[Hopeful]

My friend we have all fallen short of the glory of God. Christians still sin after being saved. But the change in regeneration is that they have new desires. To not to sin but we still do. Christians are not perfect or sinless but God treats us as if we are.

That POV is an accommodation for sin.
Rebirth has allowed the repentant to remain repentant.

 

[gordon777]

Hades/Sheol is different for different people. All who die without Christ go to Hades, but not all are wicked. When a righteous OT saint died, an angel would carry their soul to Hades, he would be "gathered to his people" (Gen 25:8) where Abraham was. But when a wicked person died, no angel would appear. Their souls would sink down into the tormenting regions of Hades, where the fires of God's inspection would purge their souls of self delusion and bondage to sin:

22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (Lk. 16:22-23 NKJ)

Hell/Hades/Sheol is a function of God's love (Rom. 8:28), the "intermediate state" where the dead hear 100% gospel truth, they are judged according to men in the flesh, but can choose to repent and believe and live according to God in the spirit:

Even those who mocked Christians and the gospel, can reconsider in Hell:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

Abraham was gathered to his people, but like all dead people, ( king David testified) they saw corruption. ( were in hell, but are not left in hell as Christ rose from there, to life for us to follow)


Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Acts 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.


The verses you quoted do reveal the opposite to what you are teaching.

Those who do riot and evil, have to give account for their actions to Christ, who is now ready to judge the quick and the dead. ( those who are not quickened together with Christ are dead/ as told below, we WERE DEAD in tresspasses and sins.)

That explains easily what preaching the gospel to those who are dead is saying, because they also are told to then live according to God in the Spirit/quickened by the Spirit.


1 Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[gordon777]

That POV is an accommodation for sin.
Rebirth has allowed the repentant to remain repentant.

Sin is unbelief in Jesus Christ.

 

[Alfred Persson]

It seems to me that if men could change their minds after having died, then Jesus' death and resurrection was unnecessary.

The opposite is true.

It is because Christ's sacrifice is central to the salvation of every human past present and future, it was required the dead hear the gospel also, that no one from any generation fail to hear it.

Even those who mocked Christians and the gospel they preached, so they could consider it more carefully than when alive:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

So after they die then they can be judged on how they obey God's truth:

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:27-28 NKJ)

It is written: “He…appeared….once at the end of the ages…to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” so He would not “have…to suffer often since the foundation of the world” (Heb. 9:24-26). Therefore, the Judgment is whether Christ’s sacrifice applies to the one being judged, whether he is one of the “many” saved by it.

As belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8), it follows belief or non-belief in the gospel of Christ decides the outcome of this Trial.

Therefore, regardless of when someone died, the Gospel is preached to them so they be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit (1 Pt. 4:6).

 

[Alfred Persson]

Those "dead" that Peter mentioned, were the people and prophets of the OT written of in 1 Peter 1:10-12.
"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Incorrect, context reveals who they are:

Mockers of the gospel and Christians who preached it:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

The verses you quoted do reveal the opposite to what you are teaching.

Those who do riot and evil, have to give account for their actions to Christ, who is now ready to judge the quick and the dead. ( those who are not quickened together with Christ are dead/ as told below, we WERE DEAD in tresspasses and sins.)

That explains easily what preaching the gospel to those who are dead is saying, because they also are told to then live according to God in the Spirit/quickened by the Spirit.


1 Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

You inserted your belief into the context, then concluded the context taught your belief = circular reasoning:

( those who are not quickened together with Christ are dead/ as told below, we WERE DEAD in tresspasses and sins.)

Peter pointed to those who mocked him, the church and the gospel preached, who are dead in their sins....

Saying:

They don't realize they will give an account to God for their mocking, and after they are physically dead (recall its appointed they die once and then the judgment (Heb. 9:27).

For this reason, for the judgment to happen it must be certain they heard the gospel and considered it carefully:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

 

[gordon777]

l give an account to God for their mocking, and after they are physically dead (recall its appointed they die once and then the judgment (Heb. 9:27).

For this reason, for the judgment to happen it must be certain they heard the gospel and considered it carefully:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

Yes it was preached to every man, so thanks for helping to confirm that for all hearing now.


Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Highway54]

Hades/Sheol is different for different people. All who die without Christ go to Hades, but not all are wicked. When a righteous OT saint died, an angel would carry their soul to Hades, he would be "gathered to his people" (Gen 25:8) where Abraham was. But when a wicked person died, no angel would appear. Their souls would sink down into the tormenting regions of Hades, where the fires of God's inspection would purge their souls of self delusion and bondage to sin:

22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (Lk. 16:22-23 NKJ)

Hell/Hades/Sheol is a function of God's love (Rom. 8:28), the "intermediate state" where the dead hear 100% gospel truth, they are judged according to men in the flesh, but can choose to repent and believe and live according to God in the spirit:

Even those who mocked Christians and the gospel, can reconsider in Hell:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

That's how much God loves us, He goes the extra mile to save sinners. Those who have NOT committed eternal sins in this life (like accept the Mark of the Beast or blaspheme the Holy Spirit), are illuminated in Hades hell, completely informed about the Lake of Fire reserved for obstinate wicked, and they can choose which they prefer > That, or life with God in Cosmic paradise.

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (2 Pet. 3:13 NKJ)

No sir. Would you like to discuss what hell is?

 

[Highway54]

No, "a god" is polytheism. For us there is only One Infinite Ocean of Essence that is God, in which Three Persons equally exist. One Name, but three are named Father Son and Holy Spirit, that's who Christians are baptized in (Mt. 28:19)

19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt. 28:19 NKJ)

As for using "a" before "god", context proves its "a god" in Acts 28:6 (because Paul didn't create all things, nor was he "already with God" at the beginning of Creation," like the Word was:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

I recall the day I went to the Kingdom Hall, wanting to be baptized. An elder asked, "what do you think of baptism" and I said "we are buried with Christ in baptism, and raised to a newness of life with Him!"

buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. (Col. 2:12 NKJ)

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Rom. 6:4 NKJ)

Wrong answer for most JWs, as few believe themselves actually Christians. One of the 144,000 anointed.

That worked to my good. In time I learned just how badly JWs misinterpret the Scripture, and thankfully God prevented me (by His Bible Truth) from becoming one of them.

Thank you Jesus! My LORD and my God! God the Eternal Son of the Father, not to be confused with God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. Yahweh our God is One Yahweh!

Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know?
(Prov. 30:4 NKJ)

I do!

Yahweh is God!

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God!

Yahweh God the Son!

To the Glory of Yahweh God the Father:

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:9-11 NKJ)

As for using "a" before "god", context proves its "a god" in Acts 28:6 (because Paul didn't create all things, nor was he "already with God" at the beginning of Creation," like the Word was:

No sir, not because of context, but because of language. In John 1:1 God occurs 2x the first time it is rightly capitalized as it is preceeded by the definite article ho. Theos is not before it prior, nor is ho prior to it at Acts 28:6. The translators of your version capitalized it to support what you are trying to support, that Jesus is Jehovah.

In that verse, what is "In the beginning" referring to sir?

 

[Hopeful]

Sin is unbelief in Jesus Christ.

Sin equates to unbelief in Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

The opposite is true.

I disagree, knowing every man will be justly judged.

It is because Christ's sacrifice is central to the salvation of every human past present and future, it was required the dead hear the gospel also, that no one from any generation fail to hear it.

Christ's sacrifice is central to salvation, but those who refuse it will not receive it.
Our fate is decided by us.

Even those who mocked Christians and the gospel they preached, so they could consider it more carefully than when alive:

4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

The dead Peter cites in 1 Peter 4, are the dead prophets and people of the 1 Peter 1:10-12.
1 Peter 1:10-12..."Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

So after they die then they can be judged on how they obey God's truth:
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:27-28 NKJ)

Some to everlasting life and other to damnation.
Your POV only sees the judgement of the perfect but errantly assigns it to the wicked.

It is written: “He…appeared….once at the end of the ages…to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” so He would not “have…to suffer often since the foundation of the world” (Heb. 9:24-26). Therefore, the Judgment is whether Christ’s sacrifice applies to the one being judged, whether he is one of the “many” saved by it.

The scripture you site is so out of context with your POV of "sinners not being justly judged" that it is ludicrous.

As belief or non-belief in Christ are the only grounds for salvation or condemnation (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; John 3:16-18; 5:24; 14:6; 20:31; Acts 4:11-12;1 Peter 2:6-8), it follows belief or non-belief in the gospel of Christ decides the outcome of this Trial.

Thanks, as it proves your POV wrong.
What is the point of a trial if nobody is found guilty?

Therefore, regardless of when someone died, the Gospel is preached to them so they be judged according to men in the flesh, but choose to live according to God in the spirit (1 Pt. 4:6).

The gospel "was" preached to them in their time. (1 Peter 1:10-120

 

[Hopeful]

Incorrect, context reveals who they are:

The context extends to the first chapter.
The dead of 1 Peter 4 are those from 1 Peter 1.

Mockers of the gospel and Christians who preached it:
4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:4-6 NKJ)

You must have missed the word "ALSO".
Or, In addition to the "mockers" of that day.

 

[Consecrated Life]

For what reason would you ever give someone the Good News of Salvation in Christ, a new Spirit within, release from fear on earth, and then add to it :
" But you know there is also a second chance after death?"

The message of the Divine revealing of certain peace and relief for the soul crying out has no part with a message of last minute escape from one's own deliberate unbelief .
Yet the OP would have you believe these two message are equally Gospel with equal capacity to save & as such should not be divorced from each other.

 

[Alfred Persson]

For what reason would you ever give someone the Good News of Salvation in Christ, a new Spirit within, release from fear on earth, and then add to it :
" But you know there is also a second chance after death?"

The message of the Divine revealing of certain peace and relief for the soul crying out has no part with a message of last minute escape from one's own deliberate unbelief .
Yet the OP would have you believe these two message are equally Gospel with equal capacity to save & as such should not be divorced from each other.

"A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".-Wikipedia

I used the term "second chance" defining this life as "the first chance", the afterlife as "the second chance."

I also maintain only those who do not commit eternal sins, such as accept the mark of the beast, or blasphemy the Holy Spirit, will get a second chance.

I also say ONLY those who had not really considered the gospel of Christ for various reasons (self-delusion, addiction to sin, ignorance), would avail themselves of a second chance in death; AFTER they are cleansed of anything that might prevent an informed free will choice.

I never said or implied those who willfully disobey God, in full knowledge of the consequences, will change their decision if given a second chance.

If their decision to reject Christ was not caused by this fallen realm, but actually was their free will choice, they won't change their mind in hades.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (Heb. 6:4-8 NKJ)

There are three classes of people in existence. 1) Children of God; 2) Children of the Devil; 3) Undetermined.

No child of the Devil will repent given a hundred chances. That's not who they are.

God's plan isn't for them, which is why the wicked aren't mentioned as Predestined unto damnation (Rom. 8:28ff). They aren't in the context at all. They are lost and can't be found.

God's plan is to save everyone He knows is a child of God, and not give Satan the victory over even one of them.

The "undetermined" who can go either way, who had not fully heard or were able to freely choose, can join the Elect of God and have their names written into the book of life. If they choose. But if not, then not.

For more on this go here:

What if the Bible Teaches Both Predestination and Free Will? | End Time News

What if the Bible Teaches Both Predestination and Free Will? Scripture says divine election is conditioned "according to the foreknowledge of God" (1 Pt. 1:2): Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood...

endtimenews.net

 

[gordon777]

Sin equates to unbelief in Christ.

People sin when they do not believe in the righteousness of Jesus Christ rising from the dead.

 

[gordon777]

I also maintain only those who do not commit eternal sins, such as accept the mark of the beast, or blasphemy the Holy Spirit, will get a second chance.

I also say ONLY those who not really considered the gospel of Christ for various reasons (self-delusion, addiction to sin, ignorance), would hear the gospel preached in death AFTER they are cleansed of anything that might prevent an informed free will choice. .

Hey people, it all is silly discussion on forums.

Why not give it all up, for the nonsense it is ?



Those with the mark of the beast are everybody, who does not have Christ in them. ( Fathers name in their forehead)


Does anyone realise how empty to never cease the emptiness that is presented on these forum discussions ?



Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The context extends to the first chapter.
The dead of 1 Peter 4 are those from 1 Peter 1.

You must have missed the word "ALSO".
Or, In addition to the "mockers" of that day.

I assume that's a typo, you meant 1 Peter 4:1. I don't disagree. People physically alive who aren't born again Christians are "dead" spiritually. Of that group Peter singles out those he and the church preached to, who rejected the preaching they heard. Its implied by Peter's observation they "think it strange" and comment "they will give an account to Him" there is an element of ignorance and failure to really consider the issue that played a role in their rejection of the Gospel. For this reason the gospel is ALSO preached (not only to the living, but also again when they are dead), so they can be judged for sin and repent once they know all the facts, and then choose to live according to God in the spirit:

NKJ 1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.
3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles-- when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.
4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
(1 Pet. 4:1-6 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hey people, it all is silly discussion on forums.

Why not give it all up, for the nonsense it is ?



Those with the mark of the beast are everybody, who does not have Christ in them. ( Fathers name in their forehead)


Does anyone realise how empty to never cease the emptiness that is presented on these forum discussions ?



Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Feel free to ignore my posts. I will ignore yours.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No sir, not because of context, but because of language. In John 1:1 God occurs 2x the first time it is rightly capitalized as it is preceeded by the definite article ho. Theos is not before it prior, nor is ho prior to it at Acts 28:6. The translators of your version capitalized it to support what you are trying to support, that Jesus is Jehovah.

In that verse, what is "In the beginning" referring to sir?

You should start a thread on this subject, and defend the Watchtower. This thread is about second chances. I know I'm guilty of getting off topic, but no one is perfect.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No sir. Would you like to discuss what hell is?

Christ described what hell is like, in Luke 16. We see Abraham and Lazarus in the "non-tormenting" section, and "the rich man" in the tormenting region. There is another level, called "the pit" in the OT (or "lowest sheol"), where the unredeemable go.