Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Mr. G Lee]

@Mr. G Lee, have you noticed that with free-willians, their word is sayings like "I chose Jesus", "I chose to do good", "I chose according to my nature", etc? Notice, that the quote of Jesus above is absent of the word "chose"!

I know I am a slow learner. It feels like we choose Him. He gives us little of His faith power . He is the storeroom of light . we must decrease as the light increases . . . . if it does???

 

[Mr. G Lee]

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

I think God created a will in Adam empowering him to love the unseen God. . . the breath of life, In a labor of his love as a work of His faith. . . the second birth. . born again seed, Christ in us,.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

From that free will that was created by God not seen Mankind denied the will of the Holy Father and trusted in the words of the most beautiful creature in the garden. Mankind giving his free will over to the will of the father of lies

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[Corinth77777]

Your thoughts have no Word of God behind your thoughts.

Some people think, that like Adam illegally took of the tree (Genesis 2:16-17, Genesis 3:6), they can illegally take of that which is Holy (with their "I chose Jesus") through their own innate power instead of the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) causing themselves to be rewarded with being born of God (John 3:3-8) resulting in God's righteous induction of the person as a citizen in the Kingdom of God (John 15:15).

In all things glorify God (1 Peter 4:11)! The free-willian hallmark "I chose Jesus" glorifies man in the power of man (Matthew 15:9), not glorifying God in the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24, John 15:16, John 15:19). We Christians glorify God by doing good deeds (John 3:21) for the Christ of us Christians says "By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples" (John 15:8).

A person has one type of will, either a will in the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) for the born of God (John 3:3-8) unto eternal life in Christ or a will in the image of Adam for the born of flesh (Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:22) also Biblically called self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) unto eternal punishment.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

The part you chose to quote is written.

Do you really believe when you are disrespectful people care what you type?

If all of your knowledge does not lead you to love then what good is it?

Now where is it written that he could choose what tree he could eat from. Right here in this passage:

Gen 2:15



And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So "every" tree shows there was more. And he could have chosen any one of the "every trees" to eat from.

He had free will to choose any of those "every" trees he wanted to eat from first.

So to say my thought has no word of God behind it is not only mean, but false.

 

[Corinth77777]

I know I am a slow learner. It feels like we choose Him. He gives us little of His faith power . He is the storeroom of light . we must decrease as the light increases . . . . if it does???

This I believe is true, He gives us just enough where we cannot claim we did anything on our own.

Here is an interesting scripture to think about
Duet 30:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live,

 

[Corinth77777]

My point is they had knowledge of and understood Gods command to them.

As to you question it does appear AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit that their eyes were opened.

Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

If I had not come and spoken to them, mthey would not have been guilty of sin,1 but now they have no excuse for their sin.

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes yoked with Christ we are free do his good will to his good pleasure. He promises us In Hebrew 6 he will not forget the good works we offer toward His Mighty Power . We have the treasure of that mighty power that raise the dead but is not of us living out the death sentence. . . appointed to all once

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
.

Hi, I dont know what that scripture means even at 46 %
But it sounds like God in us the hope of Glory.
It's like when someone is blessed by something you've said but it didn't really come from you but through you. And that's just it we in the body can be used as a tool for God. And how amazing to come alive for His purposes.

 

[Randy]

If I had not come and spoken to them, mthey would not have been guilty of sin,1 but now they have no excuse for their sin.

God did speak to them. Didn't you read
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

 

[Corinth77777]

God did speak to them. Didn't you read
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

Hi, who said I was arguing with u?
I wish I weren't so sensitive . My husband looks over people, it does not bother Him how people come across. Guess I iz who I iz.
I was just adding ..a scripture to affirm what you said.

 

[Corinth77777]

If I had not come and spoken to them, mthey would not have been guilty of sin,1 but now they have no excuse for their sin.

For me its giving knowledge, as when the law came

 

[Tenchi]

When the Apostle Paul declared God's control of the children of God by writing "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), then Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ, who is our Christian example (John 13:15), for the Word of God says "The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works" (John 14:10) in his capacity as truly Man (which does not negate His capacity as truly God), so Jesus discloses that the Father controls the Son.

??? This is seriously confused on a wide variety of points! You need some proper, biblical teaching. Wow.

Paul did NOT write that God is in meticulous control of each of His children, dictating all of their thoughts, attitudes and actions, as Reformed adherents contend. Being "at work in" a person isn't necessarily to be in utter control of them. This is a Calvinist construction on Paul's words that other places in Scripture completely defy, as I've shown in other posts in this thread. Here, again, are some of the verses that directly contradict a theological determinism view:

Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV)
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—

This is an impossible thing for God to say, if He ordains everything. How, if He meticulously decrees everything, were the Israelites, who were sacrificing their children to Baal, able to do so when God had not decreed for them to do so nor had it even entered His mind that they should ever do so. Well, it simply isn't possible for God to say, through the prophet Jeremiah, what He does in the verse above and then declare in His word that everything all of us do He has ordained in the smallest detail. He can't both decree everything and not have decreed the Baal worship of the Israelites.

This verse, therefore, dissolves the idea of theological determinism quite thoroughly, it seems to me.

Acts 7:51 (ESV)
51 “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

How can the Jews resist the Holy Spirit, which is to resist God? All we do God makes us do, according to the Calvinist; we can't resist God. Here, though, is Paul saying that the Jews were resisting the Holy Spirit. But how? Is the Calvinist going to say that God makes a person resist His will and then blames them for it? Some Calvinists actually think this - which should signal to the rest of us just how bizarre and irrational the view has become. Paul, though, puts the blame on the Jews for their resistance of the Spirit, not God - as should we all who choose our sin ought do with our own resistance to the Holy Spirit.

Romans 1:18 (ESV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Here, again, Paul defies the deterministic perspective. He levies the responsibility for Man's ungodliness upon Man, not God. We don't all defy God by God's own decree, but actively suppress the truth, God's truth, fighting against it within ourselves. How is such resistance possible if God forces us all to what we do? How can any blame attach to the person who was made to resist God's will by God Himself! This is the sort of craziness Kermos wants us to embrace. No thank you. And thank God His word doesn't actually teach such a view!

The Free-willian Philosophy dictates that mere man on man's own initiative does the things of God - free-willians say they control themselves again and again - a diametrically opposite faith to the very declaration of the Word of God and Apostolic testimony.

Free-willians think that they are superior to Jesus because of their self-willed ability/initiative to be detached from God while at the same time doing good along with the good things of God for themselves; however, free-willians fail.

In effect, free-willians think that they are superior to Jesus.

This is all just Strawman distortions of what Provisionists, Molinists and Arminians believe.

www.soteriology101.com

 

[Randy]

Hi, who said I was arguing with u?
I wish I weren't so sensitive . My husband looks over people, it does not bother Him how people come across. Guess I iz who I iz.
I was just adding ..a scripture to affirm what you said.

ok,no worries. I couldn't figure out your point/context. I probably should have asked instead of assuming.

 

[Grailhunter]

Free-willians, I like that. You mean the people that know the truth.

You really do not have anything to say that is the truth. Again the concept that God has made all reality an orchestrated play and humans are robots is absurd and blasphemes God portraying Him as a great puppet master. Besides that it would serve no purpose.

The thing is if you have absolutely no respect for God the sky is the limit. Use your imagination you can come up with a better story with out disrespect God. Things flying around….You could say that Yeshua is the pilot of a time traveling flying saucer and He took bags of “J’s’ back to the biblical era so they could use them.

That the preexisting Yeshua is a shape shifting being and He shaped Himself to male seed and teleported Himself to Miriam’s womb.

But what you cannot do is find a scripture that says "man does not have freewill."

The storyline of the entire Bible is about the choices people had made and the people that chose to preach the Good News so people would make the right choice.

 

[Kermos]

Jeremiah 19:4-5 (ESV)
4 Because the people have forsaken me and have profaned this place by making offerings in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents,
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—

You present the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 19:4-5 as your faith's purported proof of man's free-will.

First, free-will is not mentioned therein.

Second, no Scripture states man was imparted free-will, so there is no such thing as free-will.

Third, the Apostle Peter proclaims that man's self-will drives man to do evil things - even daring to revile His Majesty, the King of Heaven (2 Peter 2:9-10), so we find in history where the self-willed people committed the atrocities of burning the children that God gave to them (Jeremiah 19:4-5).

Those people were detached from God - you even extremely emboldened that portion of the Word of God "which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind" (Jeremiah 19:5) - see that's not free-will but it is self-will.

Those people were detached from God, and you, Tenchi, convey that you embrace that you are detached from God - YIKES.

My Father is merciful to choose to save a depraved wretch like me and every other brother and sister from the wrath of God by the Blood of His Son! He does it all! Praise the Lord!!!

Our Christian loving God declares:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Tenchi]

You present the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 19:4-5 as your faith's purported proof of man's free-will.

First, free-will is not mentioned therein.

This avoids my point entirely.

Second, no Scripture states man was imparted free-will, so there is no such thing as free-will.

As the verses I offered (and many other besides) indicate, Man's free agency is clearly implied.

Third, the Apostle Peter proclaims that man's self-will drives man to do evil things - even daring to revile His Majesty, the King of Heaven (2 Peter 2:9-10), so we find in history where the self-willed people committed the atrocities of burning the children that God gave to them (Jeremiah 19:4-5).

And where, according to the Calvinist/Reformed proponent, does this evil "self-will" originate? God. He's the One to blame for the evil "self-will" of Man (according to Calvinism); God is the Ultimate Source of the evil the Israelites did in worship of Baal. But He denies any part in their wickedness. How, then, were the Israelites able to sacrifice their children to Baal? If God controls all, and the Israelites killed their own children, then they did so under God's control. But God denied any connection to the Israelites vile conduct; they were acting quite apart from His control. But this means they were acting as free agents, not according to God's meticulous fore-ordination. How, then, is the Calvinist's God-controls-all-we-do doctrine correct? You haven't explained.

Those people were detached from God - you even extremely emboldened that portion of the Word of God "which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind" (Jeremiah 19:5) - see that's not free-will but it is self-will.

I think you're trying to suggest some sort of compatibilism here but this theory just pushes God's decreeing evil back a step. Who gives to Man his self-will? Who defines its essential character? Who imparts to Man his basic wants/desires? God.

Those people were detached from God, and you, @Tenchi, convey that you embrace that you are detached from God - YIKES.

Ad hominem: The last refuge of the failed argument. This is also a Strawman.

My Father is merciful to choose to save a depraved wretch like me and every other brother and sister from the wrath of God by the Blood of His Son! He does it all! Praise the Lord!!!

Yes, God saves sinners. But only those who in humility and faith choose to trust in His Son as their Savior.

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16)

Jesus was speaking particularly to his Twelve Disciples - an entirely unique group of men. The Gospels indicate that Jesus had many other followers but to none of them had Jesus specifically and directly said, "Follow me" in the way he had to his special Twelve.

so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse)

Again, Jesus was speaking specifically to his Twelve Disciples.

and to believe (John 6:29)

John 6:28-29 (ESV)
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

When Jesus spoke the phrase "This is the work of God" he didn't mean a work performed by God. The audience to Jesus' teachings had just asked him about what works they ought to be doing (vs. 28). In particular, they were interested in doing "the works of God," which was to say "the works that God would have us do" - in other words, God's commands. When Jesus replied using their phrase, he meant it as they did: "This is the command (work) of God, that you believe in him whom He has sent." So, then, Jesus in John 6:29 was not saying something about what God was doing but about what his listeners ought to be doing. Simply reading the verse in its immediate context makes this very clear...

and to be born again (John 3:3-8)

Every born-again person is made so by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5-8). But he "rebirths" a person spiritually only in response to their choosing to trust in Christ as Savior and Lord (Romans 10:9-10).

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5)

John 3:19-21 (ESV)
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

I don't see anything in verse 21 that indicates God makes anyone do anything...

John 15:5 (ESV)
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Here, too, there isn't anything about God making people do things, decreeing every one of their thoughts, attitudes and actions. Jesus simply points out to his disciples the obvious: He is the Source of their spiritual life. But being the Source of their spiritual life doesn't necessarily entail compelling them in every detail of their living. My dentist is the source of all my dental fillings but this doesn't mean he compels me to have my teeth filled.

and to repent (Matthew 11:25)

Matthew 11:25 (ESV)
25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;

Nothing here about God choosing and compelling those who repent...

"I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.

Again, Jesus is speaking specifically to his Twelve Disciples, not to everybody. Jesus chose only the Twelve as his direct, live-with-me disciples. This is why we refer to them as The Twelve, not the Fifteen, or the Three Hundred, Disciples. Only these Twelve men did Jesus choose, walking up to them and saying, "Follow me."

God chooses all those who choose Christ. God has predestined all who do so, who by faith in Jesus are "in him," to salvation and adoption.

"What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Mark 13:32-37 (ESV)
32 “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.
34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake.
35 Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
37 And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake.”

Jesus is speaking here to a situation that will involve everybody, not just his own disciples, and so it makes sense that his words to his disciples on this all-encompassing event applied across-the-board. But this doesn't mean that everything he had to say to his own disciples was relevant and applicable to everyone else. To think this is the case is to be guilty of a rather glaring non sequitur. For example, a mayor of a small town may have things to say to his staff that apply also to the entire town (parking policies, garbage collection schedules, property taxation, building by-laws, etc.), but there will be a great many other things the mayor will say to his staff that apply only to them ("get me a cup of coffee," "email me the minutes from the last town council meeting," "pick up some more printer ink," "you're getting a raise," etc.). It's by no means reasonable, then, to assume from this passage that all that Jesus said to his disciples applies to all who would become followers of Jesus. Only the Twelve would serve as the apostolic establishers of the Early Church, building it, teaching it authoritatively, overseeing it spiritually and dying for it. In their unique capacity as his special Twelve, Jesus spoke to them - and only to them.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

Well, nothing in your latest post to me encourages me (or anyone else, I suspect) to think this is so. You constantly speak past what I've written, deflecting or ignoring my points, and frequently mistake mere assertion (or a chain of them) for reasoned argument. What's more, your handling of God's word is very poor, leading you into all sorts of faulty conclusions and interpretations of it. Get thee to a Bible School! Or, at least, to a good Sunday School class.

 

[Grailhunter]

You present the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 19:4-5 as your faith's purported proof of man's free-will.

First, free-will is not mentioned therein.

Second, no Scripture states man was imparted free-will, so there is no such thing as free-will.

Third, the Apostle Peter proclaims that man's self-will drives man to do evil things - even daring to revile His Majesty, the King of Heaven (2 Peter 2:9-10), so we find in history where the self-willed people committed the atrocities of burning the children that God gave to them (Jeremiah 19:4-5).

Those people were detached from God - you even extremely emboldened that portion of the Word of God "which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind" (Jeremiah 19:5) - see that's not free-will but it is self-will.

Those people were detached from God, and you, Tenchi, convey that you embrace that you are detached from God - YIKES.

My Father is merciful to choose to save a depraved wretch like me and every other brother and sister from the wrath of God by the Blood of His Son! He does it all! Praise the Lord!!!

Our Christian loving God declares:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

The scriptures do not have to say that man has free-will because that would be the norm.

Robot humans is what would need to be explained.

And again it would not serve any purpose for God or man.

And therefore makes no sense. So it would be a religious belief of non-sense.
So again if you are going come up with something off the wall....use your imagination so it can at least be entertaining.

 

[Corinth77777]

John 3:19-21 (ESV)
19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

I don't see anything in verse 21 that indicates God makes anyone do anything...

John 15:5 (ESV)
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Here, too, there isn't anything about God making people do things, decreeing every one of their thoughts, attitudes and actions. Jesus simply points out to his disciples the obvious: He is the Source of their spiritual life. But being the Source of their spiritual life doesn't necessarily entail compelling them in every detail of their living. My dentist is the source of all my dental fillings but this doesn't mean he compels me to have my teeth filled.



Matthew 11:25 (ESV)
25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;

Nothing here about God choosing and compelling those who repent...



Again, Jesus is speaking specifically to his Twelve Disciples, not to everybody. Jesus chose only the Twelve as his direct, live-with-me disciples. This is why we refer to them as The Twelve, not the Fifteen, or the Three Hundred, Disciples. Only these Twelve men did Jesus choose, walking up to them and saying, "Follow me."

God chooses all those who choose Christ. God has predestined all who do so, who by faith in Jesus are "in him," to salvation and adoption.



Mark 13:32-37 (ESV)
32 “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.
34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake.
35 Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
37 And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake.”

Jesus is speaking here to a situation that will involve everybody, not just his own disciples, and so it makes sense that his words to his disciples on this all-encompassing event applied across-the-board. But this doesn't mean that everything he had to say to his own disciples was relevant and applicable to everyone else. To think this is the case is to be guilty of a rather glaring non sequitur. For example, a mayor of a small town may have things to say to his staff that apply also to the entire town (parking policies, garbage collection schedules, property taxation, building by-laws, etc.), but there will be a great many other things the mayor will say to his staff that apply only to them ("get me a cup of coffee," "email me the minutes from the last town council meeting," "pick up some more printer ink," "you're getting a raise," etc.). It's by no means reasonable, then, to assume from this passage that all that Jesus said to his disciples applies to all who would become followers of Jesus. Only the Twelve would serve as the apostolic establishers of the Early Church, building it, teaching it authoritatively, overseeing it spiritually and dying for it. In their unique capacity as his special Twelve, Jesus spoke to them - and only to them.



Well, nothing in your latest post to me encourages me (or anyone else, I suspect) to think this is so. You constantly speak past what I've written, deflecting or ignoring my points, and frequently mistake mere assertion (or a chain of them) for reasoned argument. What's more, your handling of God's word is very poor, leading you into all sorts of faulty conclusions and interpretations of it. Get thee to a Bible School! Or, at least, to a good Sunday School class.

Just adding something we all can read.

"Yes, God controls the lot. God controls every roll of the dice, every flip of the coin. But, according to Jeremiah 18:5-10, God often bases His decisions on our decisions. Thus preserving free will and invalidating fatalism. "
Fellowship With God in the Sixth Path, By James C. Phillips, Copyright © 2020, Source: fellowshipwithgod.org

Omnipotence, Omniscience, Fatalism, Free Will and Foreknowledge | Fellowship With God in the Sixth Path

How and when does God foreknow the future according to scripture? The answers explain omnipotence, free will, fatalism and how God controls the future.

fellowshipwithgod.org

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Second, no Scripture states man was imparted free-will, so there is no such thing as free-will.

God who designed the will freely gave to Adam according to His own good pleasure He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his own soul desires He moves men as the Spirit of Truth..Dying mankind cannot turn him to repent he moves us by the hearing his understanding of faith not of our own we have none he gives us little of his. . calling Christians Ye of little faith. little children LOL He is the big Abba the Spirit of sonship that works in all sons of God Christians.

Job 23:11-16 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Christ in us giving the Christian a desire as power to move Knowing according to Hebrews 6 of the better things that accompany salvation in so much that God will not forget the good works we perform by the power of His name our new born again faith.(belief)

Adam did the will of a beautiful creature seen and became a slave to his will . . . lust of the eye, lust the flesh the ingredients of false earthly pride.

Christians are bond slaves they delight in the daily bread of the living word of God Jesus the Son of man moved by the Father revealed the food the other apostles knew not of called Manna food to both hear our unseen Holy father fathers understanding and empowered them yoked with Christ to finish to the pleasure of one Holy Father not a earthly false pride Holy Father, Holy See .

John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

In that way finishing is better then just hearing the will, just as God patience is better than self pride that tkes a recod of suffering against it . In the end of the matter Gods labor of love called a work of his faith it rejoices with one truth .the truth of God as it is written '

Christ is our confidence ( Philippian 1:6) If began the good teaching work as the promised Holy Spirit .He promises us he will continue to teach until we take our last breath. I am a slow learner like Peter I hated teachers, school . should stayed in and raised my hand rather than Mr. Joe Jack cool sleeping in the back. lol

Like the comforting humbling word spoken of in John 14 . . . In so much not only is he our unseen teacher,comforter and guide but last but not least It is him who brings to our memory the pervious things he has taught. Teaching us how to be humbled . Like with Samuel when called three times and he answered, Here am I. very humbling from no faith (understanding of God) as living words not seen to the faith of Christ walking trusting as one. It is also Him who bring to our memory each other so we can pray for each other by the power of His faith .

He will not share that teaching glory with dying mankind that has been a new desire to live for Christ If we find honey just enough to brighten our eyes a 45 minute cat nap .LOL

 

[Tenchi]

God who designed the will freely gave to Adam according to His own good pleasure He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his own soul desires He moves men as the Spirit of Truth..Dying mankind cannot turn him to repent he moves us by the hearing his understanding of faith not of our own we have none he gives us little of his. . calling Christians Ye of little faith. little children LOL He is the big Abba the Spirit of sonship that works in all sons of God Christians.

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2 Timothy 1:12
12 ...for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

The Gospel itself - the "power of God unto salvation" - is sufficiently powerful to save the lost sinner. He has only to do as Paul did: know it, believe it and commit himself in faith to the saving work and power of Christ.

Romans 10:9-10
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Romans 10:14
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

None of this is necessary if God unilaterally and arbitrarily saves some (and not many others), as the Calvinist contends.

Job 23:11-16 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

Job 23:10-15 (ESV)
10 But he knows the way that I take; when he has tried me, I shall come out as gold.
11 My foot has held fast to his steps; I have kept his way and have not turned aside.

Doesn't God make Job to do so (according to the Calvinist)? Why, then, doesn't Job say, "God has made me hold fast to His steps; He has compelled me to keep His way..."?

12 I have not departed from the commandment of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food.

Why is Job so focused on himself? According to the Calvinist, Job has only ever done exactly what God made him do. Of course, Calvinism didn't exist in Job's time...

13 But he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back? What he desires, that he does.

Does this mean that God meticulously ordains everything? Not necessarily - especially if you don't want to make God the Ultimate Author of evil. It is God's desire that people freely choose to do His will - or not. The Bible is really clear about this. See my earlier posts in this thread.

14 For he will complete what he appoints for me, and many such things are in his mind.

Among other things, God has appointed that human beings should be free to choose to love and obey Him or not. It is God's will, therefore, that we be responsible for the exercise of our freedom to choose, damning or approving ourselves before Him.

15 Therefore I am terrified at his presence; when I consider, I am in dread of him.

Yes, it is a dreadful thing to stand before God responsible for what He has allowed us to freely choose to think and do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your thoughts have no Word of God behind your thoughts.

Some people think, that like Adam illegally took of the tree (Genesis 2:16-17, Genesis 3:6), they can illegally take of that which is Holy (with their "I chose Jesus") through their own innate power instead of the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) causing themselves to be rewarded with being born of God (John 3:3-8) resulting in God's righteous induction of the person as a citizen in the Kingdom of God (John 15:15).

In all things glorify God (1 Peter 4:11)! The free-willian hallmark "I chose Jesus" glorifies man in the power of man (Matthew 15:9), not glorifying God in the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24, John 15:16, John 15:19). We Christians glorify God by doing good deeds (John 3:21) for the Christ of us Christians says "By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples" (John 15:8).

A person has one type of will, either a will in the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) for the born of God (John 3:3-8) unto eternal life in Christ or a will in the image of Adam for the born of flesh (Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:22) also Biblically called self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) unto eternal punishment.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

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