Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[GodsGrace]

Hello W, Thanks for responding and asking good follow up questions. I will give one answer to this first question, by simply showing from your post here, why I suggest you do not yet...understand; you say this down below:

1]Everything that comes to pass, is decreed to come to pass.

2] because it is decreed to come to pass, does not mean God causes it to come to pass. You conflate these 2 things

Icon, you're the most confusing reformed person I know.
I asked you why God would command us to do something that HE is going to decree anyway - so why ask US to behave - and the above is your reply.

You state that everything that comes to pass is decreed to come to pass.
RIGHT.

THEN you state that because it is decreed to come to pass DOES NOT mean that God caused it to come to pass
and that I conflate these two things.

First, could we establish what religion you're following?
I don't think it's the reformed faith. Sounds like something you yourself might have invented.

If God DECREES everything that comes to pass and it DOES come to pass IT MEANS THAT GOD CAUSED IT TO HAPPEN. There is no other explanation.

God is sovereign. Isn't this what you believe?
If God is sovereign in the way you understand, then everything God decrees will come to pass because God has so decreed !

Without going further - explain that away if you don't agree with what I just stated.

3] That Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, he did that because of his own totally depraved nature, He did what he wanted to do. God providentially used his betrayal to send Jesus to the cross to accomplish redemption for His elect children. Did Judas struggle and say, no, I will never betray you, but then angels forced him to do it as if God caused it, NO!

4]Was Judas a hero? NO.

Why are we discussing Judas?
Why do the reformed always turn to the crucifixtion?
OF COURSE the crucifixion was planned!
Every born again believer knows this.
God planned this from the beginning of time knowing that Adam would fail.

Just like brightfame52 refuses to exegete verses I give him,
I MUST insist that we not discuss something we agree on for YOU to try to explain what Calvin has taught me to try to explain away concepts that all Christians agree on.

Could we please keep to the Institutes, or one of the confessions and what THEY teach?
Thanks.

5] The cross was ordained to come to pass. Jesus willing did the will of the Father. Nevertheless it was by the hands of wicked men that it took place. God did not cause the men to scourge, and crucify Jesus; Acts2
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

6]The cross was ordained to take place, it did. It was decreed to accomplish the redemption of the Covenant Children, it did.

We agree. Wasted time.

7] Secondary causes were used, not forced by God. The sinners do what they like to do,,,,sin...God does not force anyone to sin.

Well then, who forces those that sin IF it is GOD that decrees everything that happens?

WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH 1684:

Chapter 3:
1. From before the beginning of time, God has decided and put into place everything that happens. He makes these decisions freely by His wise and holy will. Nothing He’s put into place can change.
Can you reconcile what you state with the above statement from the WCF?
Maybe it's not ME that doesn't understand??

I read your posts. When you attack and make strawmen, and caricatures, I cannot let that slide by. I comment.
When people say, I feel, I do not like, I do not see how that can be, The god I worship does this, it is drifting into feelings and philosophy.

I don't state feeling. When someone says I FEEL it means I BELIEVE. That's just plain English.
I don't attach and I don't create strawmen.
When I state that the reformed religion is confused...that's what I mean.
No strawmen needed.

That would mean you are asking me to use scripture. You using scripture would be you offering your understanding of the passages.

A command in scripture, is not optional. Failure to obey is rebellion. Sin is never okay.

So, again, you miss the point.
WHY give a COMMAND, IF it is GOD that is going to decree whether or not you follow that command?
I'm not asking you, I'm trying to make you see how the above makes no common sense.

If God is giving you commands from the bible,
it means you have the free will to either choose to obey or choose not to obey.
Any other explanation means that GOD CAUSES SIN.
This is impossible.
God does not cause sin.

Now, the WCF may state that God is not the author of sin,
but the above, also from the WCF, clearly states that He has ordained EVERYTHING.
Explanation?

Free will does not exist. We make choices that are bound by our nature. Even in heaven we would never be "free to sin"

He does not cause their actions. Once again anything that comes to pass is ordained to come to pass, but God does not cause each persons actions, they cause it.

Please show me where it states this and how it can make sense ...
If you're going to bring up secondary causes, please check out:
WCF
chapter 5
paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4
paragraph 4 states:
4. God’s providence shows us His great power, His hard-to-understand wisdom, and His infinite goodness. This in turn shows us everything His providence covers – even the first fall of mankind, and all other sins of people and angels.

He doesn’t just give these things permission to happen however they want. No, it’s a wise, limited permission. He governs even these events in various ways for His own holy reasons. However, the sinfulness of these things comes only from the creatures that do them, not from God Himself. God is holy and righteous, and never originates or approves of sin – in fact, He can’t.

Yes...Good verses...Men are responsible for their wickedness.

It's a good verse, but you haven't explained it.
Ezekiel 7:8-9
8I am about to pour out my wrath on you
and spend my anger against you.
I will judge you according to your conduct
and repay you for all your detestable practices.
9I will not look on you with pity;
I will not spare you.
I will repay you for your conduct
and for the detestable practices among you.
“ ‘Then you will know that it is I the Lord who strikes you.


This is the question:
Why is God mad at persons for doing what HE decreed?
Why is God going to judge them according to their conduct if HE decreed their conduct?
Why is God calling the practices detestable if HE decreed them?

From my website;https://bibleinteraction.freeforums.net/thread/304/gods-justice

God's Justice | Bibleinteraction

[b]VI. The justice of God is that essential property of his nature, which disposes him to render to himself, and to all his creatures, that

bibleinteraction.freeforums.net

Here is your error, coming from your keyboard. Man is the cause of his own sin, not God.
Man's sin does not surprise God. God uses the sin of man to accomplish His purposes in the long run.

God's Justice | Bibleinteraction

[b]VI. The justice of God is that essential property of his nature, which disposes him to render to himself, and to all his creatures, that

bibleinteraction.freeforums.net

You have looked here once before, much has been added, good study links, read through this link of more gifted persons as they open it up in great detail.

I can be quite civil when the other person is.:yes

You still haven't explained what JUSTICE is or what being JUST means.
I'd appreciate it if you'd answer on this forum without sending me to another one.

We apparently understand justice in a different way.
Justice/being just only means that each person receives what they DESERVE.

IF God picks out who will be saved and who will not,
HOW IS THAT JUST?

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for asking a sincere question

This is my second response to you today. I think I answered this in my previous response.

The bible is the only meaningful thing we have in our lives. It alone is the special revelation that comes from God. Everything that has been planned and predestined has been made known to us;eph3
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

They sinned because they were unsaved natural men. They were profane. It leads up to Ezk34. where God Himself declares that He Himself will come as our Great Shepherd, as seen in Jn 10.

Saints are called to Holiness. We are still in non glorified bodies that are still able to sin. We are never free to sin.
In heaven will will no longer be able to sin. Titus2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

haha, God is not a God of confusion, agreed! You are a bit confused??? I say it is on you W, lol...you walked right into that one:yes

I can

You are welcome

Titus 2:12 states that we SHOULD live righteously.
That sounds like free will to me and every other Christian in every other denomination.

Every other sentence of yours has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
Picking nice verses out at random - that all Christians agree with - does not strengthen any particular point you're trying to make.

Who not, instead, post some verses that show that man DOES NOT have free will.
When, after the fall, was free will taken away from man?
Or did he not even have it in the Garden?

Every denomination believes man had free will in the Garden....
and it was never taken away because it is shown throughout the bible.
The few verses I've posted all confirm man's free will.

 

[Iconoclast]

I

Titus 2:12 states that we SHOULD live righteously.
That sounds like free will to me and every other Christian in every other denomination.

Every other sentence of yours has nothing to do with what we're discussing.
Picking nice verses out at random - that all Christians agree with - does not strengthen any particular point you're trying to make.

Who not, instead, post some verses that show that man DOES NOT have free will.
When, after the fall, was free will taken away from man?
Or did he not even have it in the Garden?

Every denomination believes man had free will in the Garden....
and it was never taken away because it is shown throughout the bible.
The few verses I've posted all confirm man's free will.

wondering
I will answer in detail these two posts. let me give a partial answer now.
Here is an example;
I decide to collect the eggplant parm that you were going to make for me. I book a flight to Italy to meet you. I arrive safely...that is the plan comes to pass.....if it comes to pass, it was ordained to come to pass.
During my visit, you verbally abuse me, I throw a glass of water in your face, and storm off without the eggplant parm.
As I try and return to the airport, a plane crashes into my car, and I am sent into the eternal state. A dark providence with a happy outcome....NOW...If it happened in this way, God would have ordained these events to happen, however..If you sinfully abuse me verbally, and I throw the water in your face, you did what you did, and I did what i did, in the context of this whole short story. God did not make you sin, verbally abusing me, God did not make me sin, throwing water in your face, We each did what we did and are accountable for our actions.
God did not,,,MAKE US DO IT. God Did not cause it, He allowed secondary means...your sinful self will, my sinful self will for the events to take place as they did. nevertheless, the fact that it happened, shows it was ordained in God's providence to come to pass...... Read this slow, and read it a few times, see if it clicks.

 

[brightfame52]

wondering

So, again, you miss the point.
WHY give a COMMAND, IF it is GOD that is going to decree whether or not you follow that command?
I'm not asking you, I'm trying to make you see how the above makes no common sense.

It doesnt matter what makes sense to you when the scriptures are concerned, you should bow to it. God decreed that Pharoah would disobey Him in not letting the people go from egypt, yet He commanded him to let them go.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's called JUSTIFICATION, not sanctification. Salvation is a trinity of three parts - justification, sanctification, glorification, in that order.

I can't agree.
It is written..."Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29)
That blood is applied at our immersion into Christ and into His death and burial by water baptism. (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24)
Justification occurs at the same time.
It is written..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
Our glorification will occur when we get new vessels.

This includes not is not limited to one's duties on the job. It extends to any mistakes, offenses, negligence, broken promises in our relationships with others. If you regret, you feel guilty, you care about the other person's hurt feelings, you're afraid of losing them, you intend to mend the relationship, you wanna make it up to earn the offended party's forgiveness, and then you deprive yourself of some indulgences and priveleges you usually take for granted without second thought, then that's penance by definition. Essentially it's a mentality of work based salvation.

Those are all things Christians don't do.
Thanks be to God, a divine nature, and the Spirit within us.

You should get a dictionary and look up the words sanctify and sanctification.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Have you never sinned again?

Not since my repentance from sin.
To the glory of God and the name of Jesus Christ !

 

[Tenchi]

God decreed that Pharoah would disobey Him in not letting the people go from egypt, yet He commanded him to let them go.

Exodus 4:21
21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When you return to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in your hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Was Pharaoh soft as putty in his heart toward God prior to Moses showing up? Was it tenderness toward God that caused Pharaoh to enslave the Israelites? Was Pharaoh's command to kill all Israelite newborn sons the product of a heart that was open and pliable toward God?

What God continued to harden in Pharaoh's heart was already well-established by Pharaoh's own free choice. God did not impose on Pharaoh what Pharaoh would otherwise have refused.

 

[brightfame52]

Exodus 4:21
21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When you return to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in your hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Was Pharaoh soft as putty in his heart toward God prior to Moses showing up? Was it tenderness toward God that caused Pharaoh to enslave the Israelites? Was Pharaoh's command to kill all Israelite newborn sons the product of a heart that was open and pliable toward God?

What God continued to harden in Pharaoh's heart was already well-established by Pharaoh's own free choice. God did not impose on Pharaoh what Pharaoh would otherwise have refused.

God hardened Pharaohs heart to not let His People Go, and then commanded him to let them go.

 

[Tenchi]

God hardened Pharaohs heart to not let His People Go, and then commanded him to let them go.

Simply repeating yourself does not show that I'm in error - or that you're correct. My observations seriously put in doubt your contention that God imposed upon Pharaoh a state which Pharaoh had not already freely chosen. God merely increased what was already true of Pharaoh (by Pharaoh's own choice). This instance, then, of God's judicial hardening was not a unilateral thing, ignoring entirely Pharaoh's exercise of his free agency.

 

[GodsGrace]

I

wondering
I will answer in detail these two posts. let me give a partial answer now.
Here is an example;
I decide to collect the eggplant parm that you were going to make for me. I book a flight to Italy to meet you. I arrive safely...that is the plan comes to pass.....if it comes to pass, it was ordained to come to pass.

Of course. If God ordains something, it will come to pass.

During my visit, you verbally abuse me, I throw a glass of water in your face, and storm off without the eggplant parm.
As I try and return to the airport, a plane crashes into my car, and I am sent into the eternal state. A dark providence with a happy outcome....NOW...If it happened in this way, God would have ordained these events to happen,

Again, I agree that this is the reformed theology.

however..If you sinfully abuse me verbally, and I throw the water in your face, you did what you did, and I did what i did, in the context of this whole short story. God did not make you sin, verbally abusing me, God did not make me sin, throwing water in your face, We each did what we did and are accountable for our actions.

And here is the problem.
Why is the above different from what you described the other times?
If God ordained/decreed/predestinated everything, why is the verbal abuse different?

I'll tell you why.
Because it's not acceptable that God could ordain sin.
And yet, this is what the reformed faith believes.

Maybe you go to a church that does not teach true Calvinism?

Here's what Calvin taught:

ANOTHER END WHICH THE LORD HAS IN AFFLICTING HIS PEOPLE IS TO TRY THEIR PATIENCE, AND TRAIN THEM TO OBEDIENCE - NOT THAT THEY CAN YIELD OBEDIENCE TO HIM EXCEPT IN SO FAR AS HE ENABLES THEM.
John Calvin's Institutes
Book 3
Chapter 8
Paragraph 4

God tries the patience of those He has chosen.
He trains them to obedience.
BUT WAIT...
NOT that they could even YIELD OBEDIENCE to Him EXCEPT in so far as God enables them.

??
So God wants to train for obedience, but they can't really obey unless God enables them.

Is it any wonder that Protestantism abandoned predestination.

God did not,,,MAKE US DO IT. God Did not cause it, He allowed secondary means...your sinful self will, my sinful self will for the events to take place as they did. nevertheless, the fact that it happened, shows it was ordained in God's providence to come to pass...... Read this slow, and read it a few times, see if it clicks.

No need to read slow or a few times.

First you say God did not make us do the sinning.
The you say the fact that it happened shows it was ordained to come to pass....
Incredible stuff Icon.

So was our sinning ordained/decreed/predestinated, or not??
Your post sure is vague and conflicting in ideas.

As to secondary causes:
Secondary causation[1][2][3] is the philosophical proposition that all material and corporeal objects, having been created by God with their own intrinsic potentialities, are subsequently empowered to evolve independently in accordance with natural law.[citation needed] Traditional Christians would slightly modify this injunction to allow for the occasional miracle as well as the exercise of free will. Deists who deny any divine interference after creation would only accept free will exceptions. That the physical universe is consequentially well-ordered, consistent, and knowable, subject to human observation and reason, was a primary theme of Scholasticism and further molded into the philosophy of the western tradition by Augustine of Hippo and later by Thomas Aquinas.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_causation


Or, to make it easy, a secondary cause is anything that is not the moving or initial cause....in this case, God creating everything and predestinating everything makes secondary causes impossible.

A secondary cause is this:
You go somewhere in your car.
A woman feels ill and falls in front of your car.
She dies.
The first cause is that your car hit her.
The secondary cause is that she was ill.

But, according to the reformed, God predestinates everything,
so any secondary cause becomes null, since it's God decreeing events.

God has decreed all things that occur.
WCF
Chapter 3
Paragraph 1

 

[brightfame52]

Simply repeating yourself does not show that I'm in error - or that you're correct. My observations seriously put in doubt your contention that God imposed upon Pharaoh a state which Pharaoh had not already freely chosen. God merely increased what was already true of Pharaoh (by Pharaoh's own choice). This instance, then, of God's judicial hardening was not a unilateral thing, ignoring entirely Pharaoh's exercise of his free agency.

Thats all I need to do is repeat the Truth. God had determined to harden pharoah heart to not let His People go, then He commanded him to let them go. Ex 4:21

21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

 

[Tenchi]

Thats all I need to do is repeat the Truth.

But you aren't. You're repeating your distortion of His truth. I, too, quoted the very same verse in defense of what I pointed out. And it seems to me, the verse accords far better with what I've observed than with the conclusion you're deriving from it.

 

[brightfame52]

But you aren't. You're repeating your distortion of His truth. I, too, quoted the very same verse in defense of what I pointed out. And it seems to me, the verse accords far better with what I've observed than with the conclusion you're deriving from it.

God purposed before pharoah was born that He was going to judge that nation Gen 15:14

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

God predetermined all of that, what pharoah would be alive and all that. God specifically raised him up for that purpose, Rom 9:17

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course. If God ordains something, it will come to pass.

ok

Again, I agree that this is the reformed theology.

not sure you get it yet.

And here is the problem.
Why is the above different from what you described the other times?
If God ordained/decreed/predestinated everything, why is the verbal abuse different?

1] ordained

2] decreed

3] predestined

You think these words are all one and the same. They are not. I have posted this to you 5 or 6x now, but the fact you repost them shows you are not reading carefully. You think you are, but you are not.

I'll tell you why.
Because it's not acceptable that God could ordain sin.

Here is the exact example I tried to illustrate when I threw water in your face....it was ordained to happen, but not caused by God. That is the same as saying. God created the universe.so, God is the direct cause of sin, because if he did not create, it would not exist, so you look to blame God.

And yet, this is what the reformed faith believes.

You do not understand it. Your opinion is not speaking for reformed Christians.

Maybe you go to a church that does not teach true Calvinism?

No, I have been in the mainstream all of my Christian life.

Here's what Calvin taught:

ANOTHER END WHICH THE LORD HAS IN AFFLICTING HIS PEOPLE IS TO TRY THEIR PATIENCE, AND TRAIN THEM TO OBEDIENCE - NOT THAT THEY CAN YIELD OBEDIENCE TO HIM EXCEPT IN SO FAR AS HE ENABLES THEM.
John Calvin's Institutes
Book 3
Chapter 8
Paragraph 4

God tries the patience of those He has chosen.
He trains them to obedience.
BUT WAIT...
NOT that they could even YIELD OBEDIENCE to Him EXCEPT in so far as God enables them.

Yes, he was correct. we are unprofitable servants

??
So God wants to train for obedience, but they can't really obey unless God enables them.

The man with the withered hand could not obey and stretch forth His hand unless God enabled him to.

Is it any wonder that Protestantism abandoned predestination.

Predestination has not been abandoned, but rather understood correctly and not mangled as you try and do to it.
Believers are predestined to be conformed to the Image of the Son. Anyone who does not believe this is an unbeliever, plain and simple.

No need to read slow or a few times.

looks like there is, it is going right over your head. read it slow, and think on it, if you want to understand it, or just skip over it, make believe you get it and reject it anyhow.

First you say God did not make us do the sinning.

Correct....That is why i tried to use the example of Judas, betraying Jesus. Judas was not forced to do it as you suggest by not seeing it. When Jesus said he was going to be betrayed, Judas did not say...I will never do such a thing, and then angels forced him to do it despite his protests. Instead of getting the example, you said...why are we talking about Judas??? That is why I say you need to slow down, and re-read things so you do not miss it.

The you say the fact that it happened shows it was ordained to come to pass....

Which you agreed with opening this response!

Incredible stuff Icon.

Yes indeed.

So was our sinning ordained/decreed/predestinated, or not??
Your post sure is vague and conflicting in ideas.

God does not force anyone to sin at any time. Sinners sin, and are fully responsible for their own sinful self will.
Sinners will sin until glorified in heaven.

As to secondary causes:
Secondary causation[1][2][3] is the philosophical proposition that all material and corporeal objects, having been created by God with their own intrinsic potentialities, are subsequently empowered to evolve independently in accordance with natural law.[citation needed] Traditional Christians would slightly modify this injunction to allow for the occasional miracle as well as the exercise of free will. Deists who deny any divine interference after creation would only accept free will exceptions. That the physical universe is consequentially well-ordered, consistent, and knowable, subject to human observation and reason, was a primary theme of Scholasticism and further molded into the philosophy of the western tradition by Augustine of Hippo and later by Thomas Aquinas.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_causation


Or, to make it easy, a secondary cause is anything that is not the moving or initial cause....in this case, God creating everything and predestinating everything makes secondary causes impossible.

No reformed Confession, no reformed Christian believes God sins, or is the Author of sin. Vain carnal philosophy offers this as a possibility. I totally reject any such suggestion. I do not do carnal philosophy, but rather whatever comes from scripture.

A secondary cause is this:
You go somewhere in your car.
A woman feels ill and falls in front of your car.
She dies.
The first cause is that your car hit her.
The secondary cause is that she was ill.

But, according to the reformed, God predestinates everything,
so any secondary cause becomes null, since it's God decreeing events.

In such a scenerio, what would have been ordained to come to pass would be the exact time of the woman's death,and the means of the death. We have an appointed time of death Hebrews 9:27

God has decreed all things that occur.
WCF
Chapter 3
Paragraph 1

 

[Iconoclast]

Not since my repentance from sin.
To the glory of God and the name of Jesus Christ !

My friend, you sin everyday, in thought , word, and deed. You are not walking sinless perfect. Anyone who believes so, does not understand How Holy God is, and His word pure. A Christian is not bound by the reigning power of sin any longer, but we all fall short, everyday.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Those are all things Christians don't do.
Thanks be to God, a divine nature, and the Spirit within us.

I don't believe you. At least these indicate you care for the other person. Aren't we supposed to love one another?

You should get a dictionary and look up the words sanctify and sanctification.

It simply means "set aside for a special purpose".

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I can't agree.
It is written..."Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Heb 10:29)
That blood is applied at our immersion into Christ and into His death and burial by water baptism. (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24)
Justification occurs at the same time.
It is written..."Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
Our glorification will occur when we get new vessels.

Heb 10:29 you quote defeats your own point, such a person may know ABOUT Jesus, but does NOT know him intimately and personally. If he did, and the blood were applied, how could he counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing - or "a common thing" in other translations?

 

[Runningman]

You think these people never sinned again?

Since Jesus told them to not sin anymore then Jesus thinks they can stop sinning. There isn't a good reason why he would directly tell them to stop if it weren't possible.

 

[Hopeful 2]

My friend, you sin everyday, in thought , word, and deed.

Cite my sin.

You are not walking sinless perfect.

You don't even know me.

Anyone who believes so, does not understand How Holy God is, and His word pure.

Does God reside in a polluted temple ?
No, and neither will He reside in a polluted vessel.

A Christian is not bound by the reigning power of sin any longer, but we all fall short, everyday.

If we are not bound by something, why act like we are bound ?
Jesus said the truth would free you from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
Be free !

Or don't you know the truth that Jesus was referring to ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I don't believe you. At least these indicate you care for the other person. Aren't we supposed to love one another?

If you truly loved and cared about someone, you wouldn't offend,, neglect, or break promises in our relationships with others.
Your perception of "Christian" is way off
If we are walking as Christ walked, how can we not walk as Jesus walked ?
"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
You identify false Christians with your "model".

It simply means "set aside for a special purpose".

There is more to it than just that in most dictionaries.
How about consecrated, atoned for, blessed, cleansed, and made holy ?
Those words describe every man who has shed the flesh and is walking in the Spirit.
They describe every man who has repented of sin and been washed of past sins by the blood of Christ.