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Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

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Hopeful 2 said:
End that life now, with baptism into Christ and His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-7)
Be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), as a new creature reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)
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Yes, that's a spiritual matter. But contrary to popular belief, such transformation is NOT immediate, that's against both the bible and science:

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he (Ishmael) who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free. (Gal. 4:28-31)

This is the journey of sanctification, a constant battle between Isaac and Ishmael. It lasts for the rest of our lives till we're resurrected from the corruptible and mortal into incorruptible and immortal in the Lord's millennial kingdom. I mention science because real science bears witness to the biblical truth. We naturally resist change, if we're moving, we keep moving; if we're stuck, we remain stuck. This is called inertia, an inherent property of any object, and the heavier the object, the greater the inertia, that is the "hardness of heart". We're creatures of habit, and all habits are inertial. In order to make any meaningful change, a strong external force must be exerted on the object to overcome the inertia, and that's the holy spirit.
 
Kermos said:
Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?
The Word of God indicates no based upon both scriptural text and context.
The following is carefully presented proof establishing Adam was formed with intent not endowed with free will.
  • God issued prophecy about man eating the fruit (Genesis 2:17)
    AT the time God commanded the man, Adam, not to eat of the tree
    AND the consequence of disobedience is declared - that is that death of the man would result in eating from the tree
    YET a command does not convey ability
    BUT the language contains a prophetic construct indicating assurance of occurrence - "for in the day that you eat" - the "for" is promissory
    NOT a conditional logic construct such as "if in the day that you eat"
    IN fact, the English word "for" is translated from the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki)
    AND the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki) contains the meanings of these English words "that", "for", "when" (Strong's Hebrew: 3588. כִּ֗י (ki) -- that, for, when)
    THEREFORE the word "when" fits where the word "for" resides in Genesis 2:17
    THUS the phrase "when in the day that you eat" is an accurate translation for Genesis 2:17
    SO this confirms the promissory nature, the prophecy of man eating the fruit, with the word "for"/"when" in Genesis 2:17
    AND this imposes contextual certainty indicating God's foreknowledge over the matter described in Genesis 2:17
    SO there is no free will indicated for Adam
    AND the firm fact is established
    THAT God reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)
  • The attribute of man being created in the image according to the likeness of God
  • Attributes/Characteristics Compared And Contrasted
    • The attribute of man being created in the image according to the likeness of God
      SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)
      THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam
      IN particular God willpowering purported "free will" into man, specifically a free will into man in the likeness God's will, during the creation of Adam
      THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God
      BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)
      THEREFORE it follows that man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God
      COMPARITIVELY this point's basis conveys that Adam who was made in the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26) could not use an Adam's will created by God inside Adam which is a duplicate of God's will (likeness of God's will) because God's will won't work against God so then Adams will could not work against God and since Adam disobeyed God, it is with certainty that the attribute of Adam's will was not made a duplicate of God's will (likeness of God's will).
      1. The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities
      2. God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature
      3. Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.
      4. Scripture does not include the mention of God endowing Adam with free will.
      5. Man's free will is a precept of man leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9)
    • Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world
      SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)
      AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13)
      AND no person can thwart God's Plan (Job 42:2)
      THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)
      SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind
      SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden
      THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will
    • The timeline of Adam knowing good and evil
      BEFORE Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THEN Adam and Eve knew not good and evil
      AFTER Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THEN Adam and Eve knew good and evil
      FOR the delineation is clarified when God said "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22)
      YET based on the Word of God saying "has become" recorded in Genesis 3:22
      THEN Adam did not know good and evil before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      SO Adam did not know good and evil when God issued the command "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die!" Genesis 2:17)
      THEREFORE at the time of eating, Adam listened (perceived) and followed her word about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      FOR God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)
      SO Adam listened to Eve and Adam ate from the tree prior to knowing good and evil
      AND a person does good by obeying God; on the other hand, a person does evil by disobeying God
      SO free will choosing of good or choosing of evil is not the context
      YET action is the context
      SINCE good and evil are not known to Adam prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THEREFORE it follows that Adam was not endowed with the attribute of free will
    • An inherently good Adam would have assuredly and absolutely excluded eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      BECAUSE an inherently good Adam would have acted in the good way of obedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17)
      WITH the good way being God's Way (John 14:6)
      YET "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)
      AND it is written "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31)
      SO the spirit of antichrist preaches that Adam with all mankind as good for any amount of time thus nullifying the need for the Savior
      BEHOLD that God saw the whole package, the complete creation, the "all" that He had made, that it was very good
      BUT God did not specify how the aggregate (all) that He had made was very good therein
      AND God did not specify any constituents of creation as being inherently good therein
      AND God creating "all that He had made" for God in Jesus Christ to come to earth to save evil man is very good
      SO with certainty, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is very good
    • The attribute of "joining" - marriage
      1. Lord Jesus says a topically very profound statement of "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9)
      2. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Christ and the Bride of Christ, that is, the Assembly of God
      3. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to marriage between "male and female" (creatures both)
      4. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Adam and Eve, the man and the woman
      5. God does the joining, while, on the other hand, man and woman are only the joyful recipients
      6. The facility of "joining" is not attributed to man and/or woman
      7. The facility of "joining" is attributed to God
      THEREFORE God exclusively causes individuals to join into the Assembly of God.
For expanded topic coverage, please see this integral essay Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor.

If anyone venture a reply to this thread, I encourage diligent care for it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

May the Lord abound mercy and understanding and strength and grace in we His own for the Day approaches rapidly!
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Adam is not the name of a man in the Scriptures, but simply refers to the human gender.

The first person to sin was the ruler of Eden, the father of the Jews-John 8:44-45, don't you know?

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, GOD has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto this Judgment of this great Day i.e. the LORD's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, understand?

Again:
Luke 20:35-36
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
OK, but you seem to have veered away from your point.
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If you're referring to our paid daily grind work, that may not be a stress relief, but lots of people use that as a form of escape, an escape from their toxic relationships and other problems in personal life, or a penance to relieve from guilt and shame. "Works of the law" do belong to this category, I'm afraid.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Paul made it clear in Rom 3's citings of OT scripture that even though the Jews had the Law, that they still needed the Redeemer.
The Jews were no better off than any Gentile.
But what of those who had no Law ?
What is a sin to someone who doesn't know it it is a sin to, say: commit adultery or steal ?
They can't be judged by the Law, but by their conscience.
Enoch was translated because he found favor with God...he wasn't "under sin".
Neither was Elijah, or John the Baptist.
Or Jesus.
Or any man who is "in Christ".
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By nature men are slaves to sin, there will isnt free from serving sin.
 
Runningman said:
Indeed and well said. Where Reformed theologians tend to go too far is that just because some things can or are predestined therefore all things are predestined;
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What do you think is predestined?
Runningman said:
I believe that cannot be further from the truth and is a fallacy.
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Give examples of what you mean?
Runningman said:
Jesus and the apostles did preach/teach on the willful cessation of sin.
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where was that taught?
Runningman said:
There will be those who will deny this because it does indeed cause a problem for each letter in Calvin's TULIP.
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What problem? you are making unexplained statements, clarify what you are trying to say.
 
Iconoclast said:
What do you think is predestined?

Give examples of what you mean?

where was that taught?

What problem? you are making unexplained statements, clarify what you are trying to say.
Click to expand...

For the sake of not going too far off topic, I will post some scripture but if you want to discuss the errors of Calvinism just point me to the thread.

Jesus preached the willful cessation of sin and debunked total depravity.

Matt 7
11So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

Luke 6
32If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.

John 5
14Afterward, Jesus found the man at the temple and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you.”

John 8
11“No one, Lord,” she answered.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Yes, that's a spiritual matter. But contrary to popular belief, such transformation is NOT immediate, that's against both the bible and science:
Click to expand...
It is immediate if the repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins are immediate.
Carry_Your_Name said:
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But, as he (Ishmael) who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free. (Gal. 4:28-31)

This is the journey of sanctification, a constant battle between Isaac and Ishmael. It lasts for the rest of our lives till we're resurrected from the corruptible and mortal into incorruptible and immortal in the Lord's millennial kingdom. I mention science because real science bears witness to the biblical truth. We naturally resist change, if we're moving, we keep moving; if we're stuck, we remain stuck. This is called inertia, an inherent property of any object, and the heavier the object, the greater the inertia, that is the "hardness of heart". We're creatures of habit, and all habits are inertial. In order to make any meaningful change, a strong external force must be exerted on the object to overcome the inertia, and that's the holy spirit.
Click to expand...
Man is sanctified by the blood of Christ.
That atoning blood is applied at our "immersion" into Christ and into His death...at our baptism.
Whoever came up with the gradual sanctification doctrine was not of God.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
If you're referring to our paid daily grind work, that may not be a stress relief, but lots of people use that as a form of escape, an escape from their toxic relationships and other problems in personal life, or a penance to relieve from guilt and shame.
Click to expand...
Perhaps so.
Though I can't see it as penance.
Carry_Your_Name said:
"Works of the law" do belong to this category, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...
As Paul made it quite clear that the works of the Law will benefit nobody, only the uneducated would use circumcision, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, or dietary rules to attain what Jesus already provided.
 
Runningman said:
For the sake of not going too far off topic, I will post some scripture but if you want to discuss the errors of Calvinism just point me to the thread.

Jesus preached the willful cessation of sin and debunked total depravity.

Matt 7
11So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

Luke 6
32If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.

John 5
14Afterward, Jesus found the man at the temple and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you.”

John 8
11“No one, Lord,” she answered.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”
Click to expand...
You think these people never sinned again?
 
Hopeful 2 said:
It is immediate if the repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins are immediate.

Man is sanctified by the blood of Christ.
That atoning blood is applied at our "immersion" into Christ and into His death...at our baptism.
Whoever came up with the gradual sanctification doctrine was not of God.
Click to expand...
Salvation is not a ticket to heaven or a license to sin as many Christians are taught. We’re still living in a sinful world and we still suffer from the consequences of sin. Being baptized is one thing, bearing spiritual fruit is another, and the process for the seed of gospel to take root, sprout up and bear fruit is sanctification. If you believe that’s immediate, you’re deceived, because only does the seed of gospel “immediately” sprout in the shallow soil, and what happens to that? It dies off under the heat of persecution and pressure.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Salvation is not a ticket to heaven or a license to sin as many Christians are taught.
Click to expand...
Agreed, though our salvation won't be assured until we hear our names read from the book of life.
Carry_Your_Name said:
We’re still living in a sinful world and we still suffer from the consequences of sin.
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But it will be from the sins of others, and not of ourselves.
Carry_Your_Name said:
Being baptized is one thing, bearing spiritual fruit is another, and the process for the seed of gospel to take root, sprout up and bear fruit is sanctification.
Click to expand...
As the sanctification happens at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of past sins, I must disagree.
Carry_Your_Name said:
If you believe that’s immediate, you’re deceived, because only does the seed of gospel “immediately” sprout in the shallow soil, and what happens to that? It dies off under the heat of persecution and pressure.
Click to expand...
You describe the false Christian's experience perfectly.
But for the true Christian, growth in grace and knowledge will bear it's due fruit.
Anyone who truly loves God with all their heart, mind, and soul, will not double-cross Him.
 
Carry_Your_Name said:
Why not? Sometimes I made a fatal mistake, and I genuinely felt guilty about it, I was compelled to work and fix it, or somebody else will hold me accountable and order me to fix it.
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If you are still talking about an experience on a job, there are prices to pay for mistakes.
But "in Christ", there can be no mistakes.
All sin is on purpose.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
As the sanctification happens at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of past sins, I must disagree.
Click to expand...
That's called JUSTIFICATION, not sanctification. Salvation is a trinity of three parts - justification, sanctification, glorification, in that order.
Hopeful 2 said:
If you are still talking about an experience on a job, there are prices to pay for mistakes.
But "in Christ", there can be no mistakes.
All sin is on purpose.
Click to expand...
This includes not is not limited to one's duties on the job. It extends to any mistakes, offenses, negligence, broken promises in our relationships with others. If you regret, you feel guilty, you care about the other person's hurt feelings, you're afraid of losing them, you intend to mend the relationship, you wanna make it up to earn the offended party's forgiveness, and then you deprive yourself of some indulgences and priveleges you usually take for granted without second thought, then that's penance by definition. Essentially it's a mentality of work based salvation.
 
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