Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Hopeful 2]

you are way of, the word for commit is to practice.

No, it isn't.
If you kill one man, you are a murderer.
You don't have to kill one man a week, for years and years, to be a murderer.

You have no understanding of romans 7 or 8

I have enough of an understanding of Rom 6-8 that I don't allow it's misinterpretation to keep me a sinner.

 

[Iconoclast]

No, it isn't.
If you kill one man, you are a murderer.
You don't have to kill one man a week, for years and years, to be a murderer.

I have enough of an understanding of Rom 6-8 that I don't allow it's misinterpretation to keep me a sinner.

If you trust Jesus and ask Him for mercy He might do that.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I have enough of an understanding of Rom 6-8 that I don't allow it's misinterpretation to keep me a sinner.

The entire gospel of Christ is encapsulated in these five bold words: Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3). If you deny original sin and believe you have no sin, then there's no need for Christ, the Christ is not in you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No they're not. You're conflating those two.

Both justification and sanctification occur at the same time.
At the application of Jesus' blood.

Nope, it's your ignorance, not my invention. For it is written:
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Heb. 5:12-14)

That is indeed a good scripture to make your point.
Men can mature spiritually.
But if they are unspiritual, they won't ever mature spiritually.
Where do sinners fit in that formula ?
They are unspiritual.

And I agree with the Lord himself:
"he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (Matt. 13:23)

Good !
But if the fruit is not of God, the seed isn't of God either.
Sinners are not reborn of God's seed.

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. " (Matt. 7:1-2)

I accepted the judgement for my sins.
The judgement was death, which I suffered at my crucifixion with Christ.

And being consistent, no backsliding like Peter or the original receivers of the Hebrew letter.

Correct, though his back-sliding occurred before his real repentance and reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That effort I talked about is no other than our free will. The problem with the teaching of free will is not free will itself, but free will to do WHAT. As Thomas Jefferson said, "rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." We are given a free will to resist tyrants and serve God, not resist God and serve tyrants.

Do you have the free will to quit serving sin and start serving God ?
No man can serve two masters...

Then do you disagree or agree? Which one is it? Conscience alone is not sufficient. Paul, before his conversion, as Saul of Tartus brutally persecuted early Christians with good conscience, believing he was purging evildoers for God.

I agree that the sinful churches will fail.
I don't agree that those walking in darkness don't know what sin is.

You're deceiving yourself.

Is "If he is a sinner it is because he is not following Christ." really deception to you ?

I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? (Rom. 7:18-24)

You seem to be unaware that the narrative of Paul's Rom 7:23 plight..."But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."...has been answered in Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

And, Paul's narrative of his Rom 7:24 plight..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"...was answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
...that henceforth we should not serve sin.

So, Paul and us are freed from the law of sin, and our old man/body of sin has been destroyed; that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Paul's struggle therein was PRESENT, not a thing of the past, deliverance was future. Go back to school and learn some grammar, man. English is not my mother tongue, and I know this better than you.

As English isn't your first tongue, I will ask you to go to https://www.papertrue.com/blog/present-tense-narratives-in-novels/... and research the "historic-present tense".
Or Wikipedia's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_present .
Paul is narrating events from his past using the present tense during the narrative.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You're accusing me what you're guilty of - legitimizing and justifying sin.

I saw and meant no accusation in my post.
What are you referring to ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you trust Jesus and ask Him for mercy He might do that.

What is the "that" you refer to ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The entire gospel of Christ is encapsulated in these five bold words: Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures (1 Cor. 15:3).

Agreed, so there is no "gospel of works".

If you deny original sin

I know there is no sin passed down from father to son.
Ezek. 18:20 affirms that..."The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

and believe you have no sin, then there's no need for Christ, the Christ is not in you.

You can't live in obedience to God without Jesus' intervention.
He made it possible to turn permanently from sin with the gift of repentance from sin.
He made it possible to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts.
He advocates on our behalf for all we require.
Those who don't have Christ in them are the sinners.
And, if you have the will to cease from sin, He will guide you to that condition.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I know there is no sin passed down from father to son.
Ezek. 18:20 affirms that..."The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned. (Rom. 5:12) This is the Original sin, and redemption in Rom. 5:18-19 is hinged upon this supposition. If you deny original sin, then nothing else matters, you're just like everybody else blaming the world and the society 'cause that's the only alternative.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You can't live in obedience to God without Jesus' intervention.
He made it possible to turn permanently from sin with the gift of repentance from sin.
He made it possible to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts.
He advocates on our behalf for all we require.
Those who don't have Christ in them are the sinners.
And, if you have the will to cease from sin, He will guide you to that condition.

He has finished his mission on the cross - "It is finished!" Then he ascended into heaven and seated at the right hand of the Father. The rest is left to the Holy Spirit, in which we're baptized into new beings. However, as long as we live in this mortal life, we're still affected by sin, and it doesn't matter whether it's our own or the world's, and there's no way to avoid the consequence of sins, that's because the final glorification has not taken place yet, God's church is not complete. Only then, when Christ physically returns to earth and establish his kingdom, will all sins be purged.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

As English isn't your first tongue, I will ask you to go to https://www.papertrue.com/blog/present-tense-narratives-in-novels/... and research the "historic-present tense".
Or Wikipedia's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_present .
Paul is narrating events from his past using the present tense during the narrative.

Except this is not a narrative like the gospels, it's a theological masterpiece, and it's TIMELESS.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Good !
But if the fruit is not of God, the seed isn't of God either.
Sinners are not reborn of God's seed.

Then they are the tares, not the wheat. Matt. 13:23 is talking about the wheats, whose yield varies. Your oversimplistic, dualistic OSAS view is questionable, it's no different from televangelists selling a ticket to heaven, which often becomes a license to sin.

 

[Runningman]

God Ordains Whatsoever Comes to Pass, Including Your Suffering​

Not true since it is God's will that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) and all people don't come to repentance. God doesn't contradict Himself and then ordain that people don't come to repentance. Repentance is your choice and yours alone. God has a will, you have a will, even Jesus has his own will. God gave us a world and a free will to do with what we want. You will get judged for what your decisions are in the end, not by what God's decisions are; otherwise He couldn't rightly hold you accountable for what He did to you.

 

[Randy]

It doesn't appear to be God's will. Adam listened to his wife rather than God and Eve was tricked and deceived.

And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

 

[Iconoclast]

Not true since it is God's will that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9)

Everyone Peter speaks of here will be saved, not one will be lost. He is speaking to elect saints, in contrast to the scoffers and unbelievers, read the whole chapter, not just one verse. He is speaking of those already saved, and those elect saints yet to be born. Jesus had taught that All the Father gives to Him, shall come to him, all will be saved.

and all people don't come to repentance.

Correct. All those elected and given to Jesus do come, no more, no less. 2tim1:9

God doesn't contradict Himself and then ordain that people don't come to repentance.

Correct. The non elect are passed by and left to their own devices.
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9
7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4

Repentance is your choice and yours alone.

Repentance is granted by God to those sinners He is saving.

God has a will, you have a will, even Jesus has his own will.

Yes, this is true, agreed

God gave us a world and a free will to do with what we want.

Free will is a false philosophical concept invented by rebellious and sinful man. We all act according to our nature.Our wills are bound by our nature. we make choices, but they are bound by our nature.

You will get judged for what your decisions are in the end, not by what God's decisions are;

We are born condemned with the wrath of God hanging over us. We are not a neutral ,blank slate, but guilty rebels.
You decide nothing. If God does not have mercy on you, you perish.

otherwise He couldn't rightly hold you accountable for what He did to you.

We are fully accountable at conception. You are not dealing with reality. Read the bibleitself. Whatever teaching you are listening to is miles away from truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who crucified Jesus?
Was it sinful people?
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

23 Him,
being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,
ye have taken,
and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

I stated that ALL CHRISTIANS believe the crucifixion and sacrifice of Jesus was planned from before the beginning of time.

Why do you keep going back to that?
To prove to me that God plans EVERYTHING?

You'll have to pick a different topic.

 

[GodsGrace]

Then they are the tares, not the wheat. Matt. 13:23 is talking about the wheats, whose yield varies. Your oversimplistic, dualistic OSAS view is questionable, it's no different from televangelists selling a ticket to heaven, which often becomes a license to sin.

Just a friendly reminder to address the topic and not the person.
Thanks.
(don't tell Hopeful2 what you think he believes or does not believe, just reply to his comments).

 

[GodsGrace]

The words are not all the same. If you do not see that, you will never understand.




This why you do not learn.

Icon, I had asked to to please define the following words because you said they do not all mean the same.
This would help, I think:

DECREE
ORDAIN
PREDESTINATE

I think you forgot, you had stated this in one of your posts.
Thanks.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned. (Rom. 5:12) This is the Original sin, and redemption in Rom. 5:18-19 is hinged upon this supposition. If you deny original sin, then nothing else matters, you're just like everybody else blaming the world and the society 'cause that's the only alternative.

Did Jesus sin ?
How about Enoch ?
How about Elijah, or John the baptist ?
All have not sinned.
Original sin as a catholic contraption designed to corral babies into their realm of influence.
Besides, converts are not born of Adam.
They are reborn of God !

 

[Hopeful 2]

He has finished his mission on the cross - "It is finished!" Then he ascended into heaven and seated at the right hand of the Father. The rest is left to the Holy Spirit, in which we're baptized into new beings. However, as long as we live in this mortal life, we're still affected by sin, and it doesn't matter whether it's our own or the world's, and there's no way to avoid the consequence of sins, that's because the final glorification has not taken place yet, God's church is not complete. Only then, when Christ physically returns to earth and establish his kingdom, will all sins be purged.

You neglect the effect of rebirth.
My past sins were already purged by the blood of Christ. (Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:7)
If you are waiting for Christ's return for the purging of your sin, it will be too late.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Except this is not a narrative like the gospels, it's a theological masterpiece, and it's TIMELESS.

Part of Romans 7 is a narrative.
It's a telling of Paul's pre-conversion life while still walking in the flesh.
Rom 7:5 makes it clear he is no longer walking after the flesh with..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
He again refers back to his now dead flesh in Rom 7:18..."For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
He is talking about his past.