Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Hopeful 2]

Then they are the tares, not the wheat. Matt. 13:23 is talking about the wheats, whose yield varies. Your oversimplistic, dualistic OSAS view is questionable, it's no different from televangelists selling a ticket to heaven, which often becomes a license to sin.

Are the tares born of God ?
Neither are they who bring forth the devil's fruit.
As for your OSAS comment, it will only be true on/after the day of judgement.
After one's name is read from the book of life, there will be a permanent salvation

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Part of Romans 7 is a narrative.
It's a telling of Paul's pre-conversion life while still walking in the flesh.
Rom 7:5 makes it clear he is no longer walking after the flesh with..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
He again refers back to his now dead flesh in Rom 7:18..."For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
He is talking about his past.

Part of it is not, the struggle is constant. In fact, only born again christians convicted by the Holy Spirit of sin, righteousness and judgement have such struggles, it's not limited to Rom. 7, Paul used Ishmael and Isaac to illustrate this struggle in Galatians.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Are the tares born of God ?
Neither are they who bring forth the devil's fruit.
As for your OSAS comment, it will only be true on/after the day of judgement.
After one's name is read from the book of life, there will be a permanent salvation

Tares aren't, but wheats are, it takes a long time for them to bear fruit, and the yield varies.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Did Jesus sin ?
How about Enoch ?
How about Elijah, or John the baptist ?
All have not sinned.
Original sin as a catholic contraption designed to corral babies into their realm of influence.
Besides, converts are not born of Adam.
They are reborn of God !

Why would you have to be reborn in the first place if there was no original sin in you?

You neglect the effect of rebirth.
My past sins were already purged by the blood of Christ. (Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:7)
If you are waiting for Christ's return for the purging of your sin, it will be too late.

I'm talking about the sin of this world. All sinned through Adam, only those who accept Jesus can be saved through Jesus. Denial of original sin was originated from Nietzsche, and it's from the devil.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Part of it is not,

You are correct, but it is the part which is not being used to discredit Paul.

the struggle is constant.

Again, you are right.
Temptations don't stop at conversion.
They may even be worse, as the devil is desperate to get us back in his realm.
Thank God for scriptures like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Christians look for and find God's promised escapes !

In fact, only born again christians convicted by the Holy Spirit of sin, righteousness and judgement have such struggles, it's not limited to Rom. 7, Paul used Ishmael and Isaac to illustrate this struggle in Galatians.

You are saying that only those who have repented of sin will want to repent of sin.
Doesn't that ignore everyone who hated their sin so much that they already stopped doing those evil things ?
You are somehow stating that only the people who have already quit over-drinking want to quit over-drinking.

Some sinners want to stop sinning.
By God's gift of repentance, they can stop sinning.
With the promised gift of the Holy Ghost, they can remain sin free.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Hopeful 2]

Tares aren't, but wheats are, it takes a long time for them to bear fruit, and the yield varies.

The seed determines the fruit.
Tares will never bear anything but more tares.
If, however, they are reborn as wheat, they will never be able to bear anything but more wheat!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Why would you have to be reborn in the first place if there was no original sin in you?

In my case, it was because of 47 years of sinfulness.

I'm talking about the sin of this world. All sinned through Adam, only those who accept Jesus can be saved through Jesus. Denial of original sin was originated from Nietzsche, and it's from the devil.

Are you ready to condemn every one or two year old who dies ?
What sin did they commit that they should have repented of, before being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins ?
The concept of original sin is of the devil.

 

[Iconoclast]

I stated that ALL CHRISTIANS believe the crucifixion and sacrifice of Jesus was planned from before the beginning of time.

maybe, maybe not.

Why do you keep going back to that?

I asked you questions which you did not answer. Did you think you avoiding the answer would make me forget I asked questions?

To prove to me that God plans EVERYTHING?

No, that is not why. If you cannot follow each part of the verse you will never understand. I have proved to you that even thought God ordained the events of the cross to happen, God himself did not do it, but rather the text says this;
ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
I repeated the verse and broke it up into 4 parts.
23 Him,
being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,
ye have taken,
and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

so only a simpleton could miss it. or someone who did not really want an answer. Which are you W? the last two parts answer the question.

You'll have to pick a different topic.

You need to stop running away, when you ask a question , get an answer that you cannot respond to.

 

[Iconoclast]

Part of Romans 7 is a narrative.
It's a telling of Paul's pre-conversion life while still walking in the flesh.
Rom 7:5 makes it clear he is no longer walking after the flesh with..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
He again refers back to his now dead flesh in Rom 7:18..."For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
He is talking about his past.

No, He writes this as a Christian who struggles against sin.

 

[Runningman]

Everyone Peter speaks of here will be saved, not one will be lost. He is speaking to elect saints, in contrast to the scoffers and unbelievers, read the whole chapter, not just one verse. He is speaking of those already saved, and those elect saints yet to be born. Jesus had taught that All the Father gives to Him, shall come to him, all will be saved.



Correct. All those elected and given to Jesus do come, no more, no less. 2tim1:9


Correct. The non elect are passed by and left to their own devices.
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9
7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4


Repentance is granted by God to those sinners He is saving.

Yes, this is true, agreed

Free will is a false philosophical concept invented by rebellious and sinful man. We all act according to our nature.Our wills are bound by our nature. we make choices, but they are bound by our nature.


We are born condemned with the wrath of God hanging over us. We are not a neutral ,blank slate, but guilty rebels.
You decide nothing. If God does not have mercy on you, you perish.


We are fully accountable at conception. You are not dealing with reality. Read the bibleitself. Whatever teaching you are listening to is miles away from truth.

I don't think so. Paul clearly stated that what you do actually counts in regards to receiving eternal life. Imagine God directing "wrath and anger" at those who "who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness" because God ordained it. Actually, according to your logic, it would be better to not give anyone the truth or tell them to do good, seek glory, honor, and immortality. The logical conclusion is that if people don't know the gospel then they would benefit by not having a chance to reject it. Then again, it wouldn't matter anyway if God is pulling all the strings. I won't follow that "god." Smh. Calvinism is a terrible theology.

Romans 2
7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Greek. 11For God does not show favoritism.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The seed determines the fruit.
Tares will never bear anything but more tares.
If, however, they are reborn as wheat, they will never be able to bear anything but more wheat!

People are neither “wheat” nor “tares”, but SOIL. Soil itself doesn’t grow any plant out of it, the seeds do.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

In my case, it was because of 47 years of sinfulness.

Then original sin is a real thing/

Are you ready to condemn every one or two year old who dies ?
What sin did they commit that they should have repented of, before being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins ?
The concept of original sin is of the devil.

Condemn or not I don't know, all I know is that lord Jesus loves little children. If any of them unfortunately passed away, then they go to the same Hades the Lord himself went for at least two days.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You are saying that only those who have repented of sin will want to repent of sin.
Doesn't that ignore everyone who hated their sin so much that they already stopped doing those evil things ?
You are somehow stating that only the people who have already quit over-drinking want to quit over-drinking.

Some sinners want to stop sinning.
By God's gift of repentance, they can stop sinning.
With the promised gift of the Holy Ghost, they can remain sin free.
Thanks be to God !

Only those who genuinely want to stop have a chance to stop, and not everyone does. Most would rather indulge in sin than repent it.

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't think so. Paul clearly stated that what you do actually counts in regards to receiving eternal life.

Unsaved people are judged according to their works.

Imagine God directing "wrath and anger" at those who "who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness" because God ordained it.

When you are trying to be specific, it helps to offer a verse or two on what you are trying to say. I offered 8 links on the words , like ordained. Did you read them? If something comes to pass, it was ordained to come to pass.
That does not mean that God [causes} wicked men to sin. They sin because they desire to sin, and are accountable.
Go back and follow my back and forth with wondering. She does not react to the 8 links, looks to side step them , then resume her agenda. So she asks the same questions repeatedly, and will still be still asking the same questions years from now, unless she works through the data.

Actually, according to your logic,

My position is derived from scripture R so you need to dismantle or correct the scriptures I offer. Scripture can contain logic.

it would be better to not give anyone the truth or tell them to do good, seek glory, honor, and immortality.

Works of the law do not actually save. Paul in Romans 2 is explaining the fruit of the wicked, and the fruit of the righteous.

The logical conclusion is that if people don't know the gospel then they would benefit by not having a chance to reject it.

I said earlier that a scripture based thought can be logical. here your logic is being twisted to denigrate scriptural truth. Those like you at this present time, infighting the biblical truths known as Calvinism, become irrational, andoffer foolish ,emotional objections that do not stand up under scrutiny

Then again, it wouldn't matter anyway if God is pulling all the strings.

To speak of God in this way is exceedingly profane. God has a perfect eternal plan. He does not "pull strings".
He plans and purposes what he intends to do, and He always gets it done.
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

R this is the biblical God. This is what calvinists are posting about. This is what your
'logic", and comments are opposing.

I won't follow that "god." Smh.

R...your rebellion is duty noted. I am not your judge, but can only offer correction and urge you to keep studying until you find the truth.

Calvinism is a terrible theology.

It seems that way to you and several others who lack understanding, and instead create strawmen to fight against. I cannot make you or anyone understand and believe it, I can just declare as you set your face against the God who has revealed Himself, and invent your own version who does what you think he should do.
Others who post as you do say things like ;
I cannot worship a God who- sends people to hell,who sent a worldwide flood, who ordered Israel to kill men, woman, and children.

Romans 2
7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.

9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Greek. 11For God does not show favoritism.

Again, the fruit,not the root.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, He writes this as a Christian who struggles against sin.

Show me the words he used to make that proclamation.
He made it clear he was no longer in the flesh in Rom 7:5, (so must be walking in the Spirit): and he wrote how the flesh had been destroyed in Rom 6:6, and he wrote how we are freed from the "law of sin" in Rom 8:2
So are you really saying that a man who has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), walks in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, (Rom 8:9), and has been freed from the law of sin by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, still struggles with sin ?
I pray not !
Though temptation still abounds, Christians are equipt to resist them.
Thank God for the new creature's new divine nature, and for the gift of the Holy Ghost !

 

[Hopeful 2]

People are neither “wheat” nor “tares”, but SOIL. Soil itself doesn’t grow any plant out of it, the seeds do.

The seed determines the fruit.
People, and their fruit, are of either the tare's seed or the wheat's seed, parabolically.
The reborn were once the fruit of tares bringing forth more fruit of tares.
But after they have been reborn of wheat seed, they can't bring forth the tare's fruit any more.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then original sin is a real thing/

You are writing illogically.
If I never committed a sin until I was 7, there was no guilt in me until 7 years after my birth.
Why are you so insistent on making babies out to be worthy of the second death ?

Condemn or not I don't know,

Then why write that they will be guilty of anything Adam did ?
You are sure of their condemnation, or you would quit trying to make me see them as guilty of Adams's sin.

all I know is that lord Jesus loves little children. If any of them unfortunately passed away, then they go to the same Hades the Lord himself went for at least two days.

You are correct, if by "hades" you mean "grave".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Only those who genuinely want to stop have a chance to stop,

TRUE !!!!
Which shows that we have free will !

and not everyone does. Most would rather indulge in sin than repent it.

Unfortunately for them, false/multiple repentances are just lies, to God.

 

[Runningman]

Unsaved people are judged according to their works.

When you are trying to be specific, it helps to offer a verse or two on what you are trying to say. I offered 8 links on the words , like ordained. Did you read them? If something comes to pass, it was ordained to come to pass.
That does not mean that God [causes} wicked men to sin. They sin because they desire to sin, and are accountable.
Go back and follow my back and forth with wondering. She does not react to the 8 links, looks to side step them , then resume her agenda. So she asks the same questions repeatedly, and will still be still asking the same questions years from now, unless she works through the data.



My position is derived from scripture R so you need to dismantle or correct the scriptures I offer. Scripture can contain logic.

Works of the law do not actually save. Paul in Romans 2 is explaining the fruit of the wicked, and the fruit of the righteous.

I said earlier that a scripture based thought can be logical. here your logic is being twisted to denigrate scriptural truth. Those like you at this present time, infighting the biblical truths known as Calvinism, become irrational, andoffer foolish ,emotional objections that do not stand up under scrutiny

To speak of God in this way is exceedingly profane. God has a perfect eternal plan. He does not "pull strings".
He plans and purposes what he intends to do, and He always gets it done.
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

R this is the biblical God. This is what calvinists are posting about. This is what your
'logic", and comments are opposing.


R...your rebellion is duty noted. I am not your judge, but can only offer correction and urge you to keep studying until you find the truth.

It seems that way to you and several others who lack understanding, and instead create strawmen to fight against. I cannot make you or anyone understand and believe it, I can just declare as you set your face against the God who has revealed Himself, and invent your own version who does what you think he should do.
Others who post as you do say things like ;
I cannot worship a God who- sends people to hell,who sent a worldwide flood, who ordered Israel to kill men, woman, and children.

Again, the fruit,not the root.

If that’s the truth then I guess I’m going to hell, but to clarify I don’t believe you. May God’s will be done. I hope you all enjoy the kingdom. However, I’m sure God will grant me eternal life. Let’s leave it up to the Judge.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If that’s the truth then I guess I’m going to hell, but to clarify I don’t believe you. May God’s will be done. I hope you all enjoy the kingdom. However, I’m sure God will grant me eternal life. Let’s leave it up to the Judge.

If you want God's will to be done, shouldn't you be doing God's will ?