Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Carry_Your_Name]

The post to which you replied does not convey "Adam was motivated by a desire to become evil in his choice to eat the Forbidden Fruit", so you inject strange sayings where your thoughts do not belong.

The Timeline Of Adam Eating The Fruit - Marking Chronological Milestones​

I'm going to do an exercise in chronological time dilation with "she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate" (Genesis 3:6), and I'm going to use present tense for illustrative purposes. The actions of Adam and Eve may not be the precisely accurate, but it serves for illustrative purposes.

TIME MARK ALEPH: Eve takes of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK BEYT: Eve swings her arm toward her mouth as her mouth is opening to take a eat.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK GIMAL: Eve bites and eats the fruit.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK DALET: Eve extends her hand containing the fruit toward Adam's hand.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK HEY: Adam receives the fruit in his hand, and Eve withdraws her hand.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK VAV: Adam swings his hand with the fruit in it 25% of the way to his mouth.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK ZAYIN: Adam continues swinging his hand with the fruit in it, and now he has it 50% of the way to his mouth, and Adam is fully aware of God's command not to eat of the fruit (Genesis 2:16-17).

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK CHET: Adam gets the forbidden fruit to 75% of the way to his mouth, and he starts opening his mouth in preparation to eat the forbidden fruit.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK TET: Adam now has the forbidden fruit threee millimeters from his mouth, but the fruit has not touched his lips, teeth, nor tongue.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK YUD: Adam starts contracting his muscles to close his mouth around the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit, but his mouth is still not in contact with the fruit.

• The "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23).

TIME MARK KAPH: Adam's mouth comes in contact with the fruit and he bites and he eats the forbidden fruit in disobedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17).

• The "Adam is evil" sudden contrajuxtaposition of the "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9).
• The "Adam is evil" precept of God (Genesis 2:23), and Adam becomes aware that he is evil, that is, aware of his flesh (Genesis 3:7).

From TIME MARK VAV up to and including TIME MARK YUD, the precept of man defines Adam as good because he had not actually eaten the forbidden fruit, yet the intent to eat of the fruit was in his heart.

Of benefit, the Word of God says wrong desire of the heart is sufficient for sin to occur (Matthew 5:28).

This chronological time dilation illustration represents a valuable spiritual truth. Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because if Adam had been good then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

A couple of intructional points from the creation account are:

• left to his own devices, man defies God
• man fell out of ignorance about being evil in his flesh

Perhaps God will bring me back to reply to more of your post, or God might have me move on to others.

Some people think, that like Adam illegally took of the tree (Genesis 2:16-17, Genesis 3:6), they can illegally take of that which is Holy (with their "I chose Jesus") through their own innate power instead of the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) causing themselves to be rewarded with being born of God (John 3:3-8) resulting in God's righteous induction of the person as a citizen in the Kingdom of God (John 15:15).

In all things glorify God (1 Peter 4:11)! The free-willian hallmark "I chose Jesus" glorifies man in the power of man (Matthew 15:9), not glorifying God in the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24, John 15:16, John 15:19). We Christians glorify God by doing good deeds (John 3:21) for the Christ of us Christians says "By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples" (John 15:8).

A person has one type of will, either a will in the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) for the born of God (John 3:3-8) unto eternal life in Christ or a will in the image of Adam for the born of flesh (Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:22) also Biblically called self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) unto eternal punishment.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

The only reaction to this I can come up with is a big *facepalm*. Why on earth do you have to make this so complicated, man? First of all, Jesus is called the "Last Adam" (1 Cor. 15:45-47), the first Adam was the prototype for the Last Adam. The first Adam was tempted and pressured by Eve who was influenced by Satan, the last Adam was tempted and pressured by his church led by Peter who was also influenced by Satan -

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying,“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men. (Matt. 16:21-23)

Does Jesus have a free will? Absolutely:

“Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”(Lk. 22:42)

If Jesus has a free will, so did Adam. The difference is CHOICE. What you may not have realized is, "free will" itself doesn't mean anything, it's just a status as the opposite of a "programmed" or "restrained" will. A "programmed" or "restrained" will leads to only one output based on the input, a "free will" can lead to any output, and that's your choice. The Last Adam yielded to God's will, the first Adam yielded to his own and blamed Eve for it, those are two different choices made in similar stressful situations.

 

[GodsGrace]

Its apostles sent out as missionaries even today .The meaning of the words of God do not change
The distinction is between the first Abel and and the last John as far a new revelation recorded as a witness But apostles are still sent out with the perfect in a hope of making disciples of men as new apostles sent with the gospel.

The laborers in that section are apostles (sent ones)

Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Rehab a sent one., Deborah a sent one. Moses etc . Never a Highly Venerable One as if God was served by the dying hand of mankind


A true apostles is one sent having been given a desire to share the gospel as a messenger. Some exchanged the word "messenger" for "angel" a fake word needed to develop a legion of disembodied workers gods with a familiar spirits today call patron saints. They use the legion of fathers as false apostles as if the legion was the one good manner. Our Father (one) Hoping many repetitions will change the matter

Mathew 6: 7-12 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (one) Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

I won't be convincing you of word usage.
So that stops here.

As far as repetitive prayers, do you believe the Our Father, which you cited above, is a repetitive prayer?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I won't be convincing you of word usage.
So that stops here.

As far as repetitive prayers, do you believe the Our Father, which you cited above, is a repetitive prayer?

I think the teaching is not that we can't repeat the same thing ,But more if its false once its false everytime

Like that with rosary needed to remember. What they call Queen of heaven . God does not ask us to commune with the dead . . . those who have taken thier last breath of oxygen

 

[Mr. G Lee]

What was being followed was what Saul and John Baptist who fulfilled Moses covenant but can't have unleavened thoughts unseen but you hear and see who the thought judge with grace had to bury Moses mask so Saul past law seen by others even admirers but inward thought flunk grace free gift will change needs to nothing only freedom.

Saul before his conversion as Paul had nothing to do with John Baptist . John would of been hunted down and be killed according to that law of the fathers oral traditons . John did not follow a law of the fathers he trusted scripture as it is written

Unleavened as in false prophecy ?

Thoughts judged with grace? Bury mask?

 

[GodsGrace]

I think the teaching is not that we can't repeat the same thing ,But more if its false once its false everytime

I believe when persons pray, they mean it sincerely.
However, I'll leave that up to God.
Only HE sees the heart, not man.

Like that with rosary needed to remember. What they call Queen of heaven . God does not ask us to commune with the dead . . . those who have taken thier last breath of oxygen

Mr. G. Lee
You're in the THEOLOGY Forum.
The thread is about Adam and whether or not he had free will.

What does the rosary have to do with this?
What does the Queen of Heaven have to do with this?

As to the dead....
God is not a God of the dead, but of the living.
Matthew 22:32

 

[Corinth77777]

So to sum it up in 3 Sentences?

 

[Randy]

Adam and Eve weren't held accountable to any knowledge in regard to good or evil. They were held accountable to what God told them they must not do. They understood Gods command and were aware of His command. Since God Himself commanded them not to do what they did it wasn't His will they were following. Any choices they made were governed by their will. The tempter, (and God does not tempt us to do wrong), painted a picture that God would like them to know good and evil and it would be desirable to have such knowledge. That God must not have meant what He commanded them not to do. If their will was under the tempters control there would be no need to tempt them. But they knew and understood Gods command beforehand. And death entered the world through their disobedience to Gods clear command to them.

 

[Corinth77777]

Adam and Eve weren't held accountable to any knowledge in regard to good or evil. They were held accountable to what God told them they must not do. They understood Gods command and were aware of His command. Since God Himself commanded them not to do what they did it wasn't His will they were following. Any choices they made were governed by their will. The tempter, (and God does not tempt us to do wrong), painted a like them to know good and evil and it would be desirable to have such knowledge. That God must not have meant what He commanded them not to do. If their will was under the tempters control there would be no need to tempt them. But they knew and understood Gods command beforehand. And death entered the world through their disobedience to Gods clear command to them.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Funny thing is - I wondered if they had knowledge of good and evil before this?

Lòoks like they didn't, yet evil existed.
Interesting enough it's our knowledge that became the issue and its knowledge that eventually became the solution.

God introducing the tree gave man an option to choose as a free moral agent. That may be one way we understand of being made in His image.
Without the ability to create, to think or rationalize asf it does not set us apart from any other creatures.

I wonder why they died, could they have had a conscience before they ate? Or was that when the conscience came into men? Or did they have a conscience with God's initial command.

What is a conscience anyway? Was God merely opening up a door to what man already conceived in his heart. After all man was made in the image of God.

Sorry for going off topic,
What I do take from this is one, God made man in His image, if so God has free will, but maybe limited not in his ability, but in His nature to act outside of it..And if He has free will then men have free will also. And in relation to His creation we also must have been made bound by our nature within the creator. Another words we're given enough of something in relation to the will of the creator.

What interest me though through this passage is
these questions: If good and evil existed outside of knowledge of good and evil, God then would have looked over it. OR DID HE? Maybe that is the reason He opened the door for Adam to do what He would eventually choose. Giving Adam the option to do what He may have already conceived in his heart.

That would be some serious grace. God knew that what He created did not exist with life apart from Him. But man needed to see just who He really was, Dirt.

So back to the paragraph b4 the last, it makes me question how sin was brought into the world.
Sin to me results in seperation of God. Then what exactly did Adam bring into the world? Death or Sin? Or both, but how..another thread I guess..

 

[Tenchi]

The post to which you replied does not convey "Adam was motivated by a desire to become evil in his choice to eat the Forbidden Fruit", so you inject strange sayings where your thoughts do not belong.

Simply saying so doesn't make it so. I quoted from your post. There was no "injecting strange sayings" on my part.

This chronological time dilation illustration represents a valuable spiritual truth.

No, it's one long exercise in pseudo-intellectual nonsense. Making a fuss over nothing doesn't make it something.

Adam was not good before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because if Adam had been good then Adam would have obeyed God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Adam was innocent. He was good, too, until he sinned, but not in the perfect way God is. Until Adam ate of the Forbidden Fruit, there is no hint that he acted in an evil, in a not-good, way in Eden. In this time before his sin, what was Adam, morally-speaking? We can't say he was evil; he had done nothing evil. You want to say he wasn't good. If he wasn't good and he wasn't evil, what was he then? I say he was good, having done nothing evil, and also innocent, having no moral sense.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

Nope. Your OP doesn't come anywhere close to showing what you claim here.

 

[GodsGrace]

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Funny thing is - I wondered if they had knowledge of good and evil before this?

Lòoks like they didn't, yet evil existed.
Interesting enough it's our knowledge that became the issue and its knowledge that eventually became the solution.

God introducing the tree gave man an option to choose as a free moral agent. That may be one way we understand of being made in His image.
Without the ability to create, to think or rationalize asf it does not set us apart from any other creatures.

I wonder why they died, could they have had a conscience before they ate? Or was that when the conscience came into men? Or did they have a conscience with God's initial command.

What is a conscience anyway? Was God merely opening up a door to what man already conceived in his heart. After all man was made in the image of God.

Sorry for going off topic,
What I do take from this is one, God made man in His image, if so God has free will, but maybe limited not in his ability, but in His nature to act outside of it..And if He has free will then men have free will also. And in relation to His creation we also must have been made bound by our nature within the creator. Another words we're given enough of something in relation to the will of the creator.

What interest me though through this passage is
these questions: If good and evil existed outside of knowledge of good and evil, God then would have looked over it. OR DID HE? Maybe that is the reason He opened the door for Adam to do what He would eventually choose. Giving Adam the option to do what He may have already conceived in his heart.

That would be some serious grace. God knew that what He created did not exist with life apart from Him. But man needed to see just who He really was, Dirt.

So back to the paragraph b4 the last, it makes me question how sin was brought into the world.
Sin to me results in seperation of God. Then what exactly did Adam bring into the world? Death or Sin? Or both, but how..another thread I guess..

Corinth,
You ask questions that are near and dear to my heart.
Not too many get this far....in relation to evil, I mean.
If there was no evil yet, WHAT exactly made them eat?

But, yes, it would derail too much - maybe you could start a thread and tag me in?
(Tenchi might be interested too and many others).

And interesting on the conscience part.
Science is now working on this...they don't really know what conscience is.
All good stuff to discuss.

I agree with you that God made us in His image....
Part of this image is our having free will as God certainly does.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So to sum it up in 3 Sentences?

Adam surrendered to Eve's will instead of God's,
he later blamed Eve for the fall,
and he blamed God for giving him Eve.

Although this is not explicitly stated, you can see such a pattern in other places - Abraham caved in to Sarah and took Hagar; Reuben (the firstborn) caved in to his brothers and trapped Joseph in a pit; Aaron caved in to the Israelites and made the golden calf; and the most egregious one, governor Pontus Pilate caved in to the Jewish religious leaders and sentenced the Lord to be crucified, which was 100% against his "free will".

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I believe when persons pray, they mean it sincerely.
However, I'll leave that up to God.
Only HE sees the heart, not man.

Amen, Yes he knows the difference between repeating things not according to His will and those according to it as it is write . There is no female deity queen of heaven that we are lovingly commanded to seek after in repetition hoping to be heard as if God got tired and gave in. Like my children Dad, Dad, Dad, its like Ok, Ok, Ok already five more minutes enough repetitions turn the light off get to bed

edit.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Corinth,
You ask questions that are near and dear to my heart.
Not too many get this far....in relation to evil, I mean.
If there was no evil yet, WHAT exactly made them eat?

But, yes, it would derail too much - maybe you could start a thread and tag me in?
(Tenchi might be interested too and many others).

And interesting on the conscience part.
Science is now working on this...they don't really know what conscience is.
All good stuff to discuss.

I agree with you that God made us in His image....
Part of this image is our having free will as God certainly does.

Yes yoked with Christ we are free do his good will to his good pleasure. He promises us In Hebrew 6 he will not forget the good works we offer toward His Mighty Power . We have the treasure of that mighty power that raise the dead but is not of us living out the death sentence. . . appointed to all once

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
.

 

[Randy]

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Funny thing is - I wondered if they had knowledge of good and evil before this?

Lòoks like they didn't, yet evil existed.
Interesting enough it's our knowledge that became the issue and its knowledge that eventually became the solution.

God introducing the tree gave man an option to choose as a free moral agent. That may be one way we understand of being made in His image.
Without the ability to create, to think or rationalize asf it does not set us apart from any other creatures.

I wonder why they died, could they have had a conscience before they ate? Or was that when the conscience came into men? Or did they have a conscience with God's initial command.

What is a conscience anyway? Was God merely opening up a door to what man already conceived in his heart. After all man was made in the image of God.

Sorry for going off topic,
What I do take from this is one, God made man in His image, if so God has free will, but maybe limited not in his ability, but in His nature to act outside of it..And if He has free will then men have free will also. And in relation to His creation we also must have been made bound by our nature within the creator. Another words we're given enough of something in relation to the will of the creator.

What interest me though through this passage is
these questions: If good and evil existed outside of knowledge of good and evil, God then would have looked over it. OR DID HE? Maybe that is the reason He opened the door for Adam to do what He would eventually choose. Giving Adam the option to do what He may have already conceived in his heart.

That would be some serious grace. God knew that what He created did not exist with life apart from Him. But man needed to see just who He really was, Dirt.

So back to the paragraph b4 the last, it makes me question how sin was brought into the world.
Sin to me results in seperation of God. Then what exactly did Adam bring into the world? Death or Sin? Or both, but how..another thread I guess..

My point is they had knowledge of and understood Gods command to them.

As to you question it does appear AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit that their eyes were opened.

Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

 

[Mr. G Lee]

My point is they had knowledge of and understood Gods command to them.

As to you question it does appear AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit that their eyes were opened.

Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

It was not a good thing they we opened when they ate it. They rather than trusting the voice of an invisible God (walk by faith)They trusted the voice and the beauty of another becoming fools

 

[GodsGrace]

It was not a good thing they we opened when they ate it. They rather than trusting the voice of an invisible God (walk by faith)They trusted the voice and the beauty of another becoming fools

Many do this even today.
Unfortunately, that forbidden fruit did look good.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Many do this even today.
Unfortunately, that forbidden fruit did look good.

The bait still does look good. LOL My Dad used to say you're looking good who's your undertaker?????

 

[Kermos]

Adam also could choose to eat off any tree

Your thoughts have no Word of God behind your thoughts.

Some people think, that like Adam illegally took of the tree (Genesis 2:16-17, Genesis 3:6), they can illegally take of that which is Holy (with their "I chose Jesus") through their own innate power instead of the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) causing themselves to be rewarded with being born of God (John 3:3-8) resulting in God's righteous induction of the person as a citizen in the Kingdom of God (John 15:15).

In all things glorify God (1 Peter 4:11)! The free-willian hallmark "I chose Jesus" glorifies man in the power of man (Matthew 15:9), not glorifying God in the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24, John 15:16, John 15:19). We Christians glorify God by doing good deeds (John 3:21) for the Christ of us Christians says "By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples" (John 15:8).

A person has one type of will, either a will in the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) for the born of God (John 3:3-8) unto eternal life in Christ or a will in the image of Adam for the born of flesh (Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:22) also Biblically called self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) unto eternal punishment.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Kermos]

Now that it is established that Adam was not morally innocent (a.k.a. the "Adam is good" precept of man (Matthew 15:9)) before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in
post #221, a response to your post #151 in which you preached the "Adam is good" deception, now moving on to your subsequent point in post #151.

??? None of this is at all required in thinking that Adam was "good" before the Fall. It's actually just a cartoonish Strawman. In His omniscience, God had always known that Adam, given free agency by God, would use it to defy God's will. But, being God, this knowledge did not constitute a destruction of His ultimate plans in and for Creation. God is greater than all of our choices to defy Him and able to work out His will even when our freely working out our will defies His own. In His omniscience and omnipotence, God never has to suddenly develop a new plan in order to accommodate our rebellion, but has always known what to do to accomplish His will in a world of people freely choosing their own way over His. This is just how amazing and awesome God is.

You wrote "God had always known that Adam, given free agency by God" which also means "independent agency".

Your writing indicates that Adam was not dependent upon God.

In effect, you made the accurate distinction of a being, Adam, as compared to another Being, God; moreover, you are not wrongly/illogically comparing at the level of a "will", for Adam, to the level of a Being, God.

Every event that God knows will happen, then that event will unavoidably occur.

Adam was incapable of thwarting God's purpose (Job 42:2), so Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil exactly as God prophesied in:

and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"
(Genesis 2:16-17)
​

And the cause of Adam's consumption is specifically identified by the Word of God as:

Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'
(Genesis 3:17)
​

The only conclusion, even per your writing, is free agency results in man's disobedience against God, after all, we are corresponding about Adam disobeying God according to Adam being the cause of the disobedience.

You certainly did not prove free will.

Adam did not choose God, so Adam is certainly no example of man choosing God. Your free agency argument makes no difference on the outcome.

Depraved man needs the Glorious Deliverer, Jesus Christ, to be in man in order for man to come to God, and this amazing Way (John 14:6) is the only strong Way (John 10:27-30) to be saved from the wrath of God (John 3:18, John 6:29):

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God
(Lord Jesus Christ John 3:21)
​

The love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14), so we are not our own.

Perhaps God will bring me back to reply to more of your post, or God might have me move on to others.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Kermos]

hawkman gordon777 Runningman Johann!@# JLB wondering
Walpole Carry_Your_Name Tenchi Corinth77777 eframe

When the Apostle Paul declared God's control of the children of God by writing "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), then Paul is in accord with Lord Jesus Christ, who is our Christian example (John 13:15), for the Word of God says "The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works" (John 14:10) in his capacity as truly Man (which does not negate His capacity as truly God), so Jesus discloses that the Father controls the Son.

The Free-willian Philosophy dictates that mere man on man's own initiative does the things of God - free-willians say they control themselves again and again - a diametrically opposite faith to the very declaration of the Word of God and Apostolic testimony.

Free-willians think that they are superior to Jesus because of their self-willed ability/initiative to be detached from God while at the same time doing good along with the good things of God for themselves; however, free-willians fail.

In effect, free-willians think that they are superior to Jesus.

Mr. G Lee, have you noticed that with free-willians, their word is sayings like "I chose Jesus", "I chose to do good", "I chose according to my nature", etc? Notice, that the quote of Jesus above is absent of the word "chose"!

Some people think, that like Adam illegally took of the tree (Genesis 2:16-17, Genesis 3:6), they can illegally take of that which is Holy (with their "I chose Jesus") through their own innate power instead of the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) causing themselves to be rewarded with being born of God (John 3:3-8) resulting in God's righteous induction of the person as a citizen in the Kingdom of God (John 15:15).

In all things glorify God (1 Peter 4:11)! The free-willian hallmark "I chose Jesus" glorifies man in the power of man (Matthew 15:9), not glorifying God in the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24, John 15:16, John 15:19). We Christians glorify God by doing good deeds (John 3:21) for the Christ of us Christians says "By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples" (John 15:8).

A person has one type of will, either a will in the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) for the born of God (John 3:3-8) unto eternal life in Christ or a will in the image of Adam for the born of flesh (Romans 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:22) also Biblically called self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) unto eternal punishment.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.