Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Corinth77777]

I think this is error: "Jesus Christ, though capable of sinning in his human nature, possessed a divine nature that made such a thing unquestionable. Not because he could not sin, but because he would not sin."

Is the "omniscient-omnipotent-omnipresent" definition of God consistent?

God is commonly defined as an omniscient (infinite knowledge), omnipotent (unlimited power), omnipresent (present everywhere) entity. Is there any logical inconsistency in this definition? I have s...

philosophy.stackexchange.com

Let me know what you think

 

[Free]

Is the "omniscient-omnipotent-omnipresent" definition of God consistent?

God is commonly defined as an omniscient (infinite knowledge), omnipotent (unlimited power), omnipresent (present everywhere) entity. Is there any logical inconsistency in this definition? I have s...

philosophy.stackexchange.com

Let me know what you think

There is a lot of different and conflicting stuff there. Was there something specific? My position should be pretty clear and you should be able to know what I think of these issues.

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn't say Adam was ordained to sin..and you can't make it say what it doesn't because you want it to.

Its implied since Jesus was already ordained to die for sin that Adam would bring into the world.

Sometimes truth in scripture may not be something word for word, but it's implied and or consonant or consistent with clear scripture in other places !

 

[Corinth77777]

Its implied since Jesus was already ordained to die for sin that Adam would bring into the world.

Sometimes truth in scripture may not be something word for word, but it's implied and or consonant or consistent with clear scripture in other places !

" implied" is your opinion. And it's also illogical.

Because God knows what someone will do in certain cases does not mean that person didn't have choices and choose. He could have chose to stay in the will of God but he chose not to.
To say it was preordained that man would sin because Christ was preordained to take away sin is a fallacy and renders your argument invalid.

 

[Corinth77777]

There is a lot of different and conflicting stuff there. Was there something specific? My position should be pretty clear and you should be able to know what I think of these issues.

Ok was just sharing- guess one’s belief depends on what position one takes.

 

[brightfame52]

" implied" is your opinion. And it's also illogical.

Because God knows what someone will do in certain cases does not mean that person didn't have choices and choose. He could have chose to stay in the will of God but he chose not to.
To say it was preordained that man would sin because Christ was preordained to take away sin is a fallacy and renders your argument invalid.

Its implied since Jesus was already ordained to die for sin that Adam would bring into the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Sometimes truth in scripture may not be something word for word, but it's implied and or consonant or consistent with clear scripture in other places !

Adams choice to sin was also foreordained in conformity to Christ having been foreordained.

 

[Dykstra]

Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

The Word of God indicates no based upon both scriptural text and context.

The following is carefully presented proof establishing Adam was formed with intent not endowed with free will.

• God issued prophecy about man eating the fruit (Genesis 2:17)
  AT the time God commanded the man, Adam, not to eat of the tree
  AND the consequence of disobedience is declared - that is that death of the man would result in eating from the tree
  YET a command does not convey ability
  BUT the language contains a prophetic construct indicating assurance of occurrence - "for in the day that you eat" - the "for" is promissory
  NOT a conditional logic construct such as "if in the day that you eat"
  IN fact, the English word "for" is translated from the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki)
  AND the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki) contains the meanings of these English words "that", "for", "when" (Strong's Hebrew: 3588. כִּ֗י (ki) -- that, for, when)
  THEREFORE the word "when" fits where the word "for" resides in Genesis 2:17
  THUS the phrase "when in the day that you eat" is an accurate translation for Genesis 2:17
  SO this confirms the promissory nature, the prophecy of man eating the fruit, with the word "for"/"when" in Genesis 2:17
  AND this imposes contextual certainty indicating God's foreknowledge over the matter described in Genesis 2:17
  SO there is no free will indicated for Adam
  AND the firm fact is established
  THAT God reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)
• The attribute of man being created in the image according to the likeness of God
• Attributes/Characteristics Compared And Contrasted
  • The attribute of man being created in the image according to the likeness of God
    SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)
    THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam
    IN particular God willpowering purported "free will" into man, specifically a free will into man in the likeness God's will, during the creation of Adam
    THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God
    BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)
    THEREFORE it follows that man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God
    COMPARITIVELY this point's basis conveys that Adam who was made in the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26) could not use an Adam's will created by God inside Adam which is a duplicate of God's will (likeness of God's will) because God's will won't work against God so then Adams will could not work against God and since Adam disobeyed God, it is with certainty that the attribute of Adam's will was not made a duplicate of God's will (likeness of God's will).
    1. The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities
    2. God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature
    3. Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.
    4. Scripture does not include the mention of God endowing Adam with free will.
    5. Man's free will is a precept of man leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9)
  • Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world
    SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)
    AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13)
    AND no person can thwart God's Plan (Job 42:2)
    THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)
    SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind
    SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden
    THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will
  • The timeline of Adam knowing good and evil
    BEFORE Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    THEN Adam and Eve knew not good and evil
    AFTER Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    THEN Adam and Eve knew good and evil
    FOR the delineation is clarified when God said "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22)
    YET based on the Word of God saying "has become" recorded in Genesis 3:22
    THEN Adam did not know good and evil before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    SO Adam did not know good and evil when God issued the command "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die!" Genesis 2:17)
    THEREFORE at the time of eating, Adam listened (perceived) and followed her word about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    FOR God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)
    SO Adam listened to Eve and Adam ate from the tree prior to knowing good and evil
    AND a person does good by obeying God; on the other hand, a person does evil by disobeying God
    SO free will choosing of good or choosing of evil is not the context
    YET action is the context
    SINCE good and evil are not known to Adam prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    THEREFORE it follows that Adam was not endowed with the attribute of free will
  • An inherently good Adam would have assuredly and absolutely excluded eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
    BECAUSE an inherently good Adam would have acted in the good way of obedience to God's command (Genesis 2:16-17)
    WITH the good way being God's Way (John 14:6)
    YET "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)
    AND it is written "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31)
    NOTE in "it was very good", the word "it" is grammatically a third person singular thus referring to the entirety of creation being constructed well (good) on course with God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13)
    YET the word "it" is not third person plural as in "they were very good" of which a third person plural is required in order to refer to an individual such as Adam or the Devil the Serpent
    AND the Word of God specifically excludes Adam from being good with "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18)
    SO the spirit of antichrist preaches that Adam with all mankind as good for any amount of time thus nullifying the need for the Savior
    BEHOLD that God saw the whole package, the complete creation, the "all" that He had made, that it was very good
    BUT God did not specify how the aggregate (all) that He had made was very good therein
    AND God did not specify any constituents of creation as being inherently good therein
    AND God creating "all that He had made" for God in Jesus Christ to come to earth to save evil man is very good
    SO with certainty, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is very good
  • The attribute of "joining" - marriage
    1. Lord Jesus says a topically very profound statement of "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9)
    2. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Christ and the Bride of Christ, that is, the Assembly of God
    3. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to marriage between "male and female" (creatures both)
    4. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Adam and Eve, the man and the woman
    5. God does the joining, while, on the other hand, man and woman are only the joyful recipients
    6. The facility of "joining" is not attributed to man and/or woman
    7. The facility of "joining" is attributed to God
    THEREFORE God exclusively causes individuals to join into the Assembly of God.

For expanded topic coverage, please see this integral essay Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor.

If anyone venture a reply to this thread, I encourage diligent care for it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

May the Lord abound mercy and understanding and strength and grace in we His own for the Day approaches rapidly!

The belief man has Free will is a myth of man and one of the worst failings of his human doctrine.

 

[Oseas]

I Don't have to prove it, scripture declares that Christ was foreordained to die for sin before the world began 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So adam had no choice but to go along with Gods foreordained purpose.

Of course you cannot prove , then you appeal to imaginations and conjectures, and assumptions, and speculations, then invent some false interpretation to justify the previous false interpretation that you had been made, all in the way the Devil likes. Genesis 3:1 combined with Matthew 16:22-23

 

[Oseas]

Yes, Oseas, and wilfully !

Gen 2:15-17

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Who first commited sin was the MAN of sin, the tree of good and evil, not Adam.

You appeal to imaginations and conjectures, and assumptions, and speculations, then invent some false interpretation to justify the previous false interpretation that you had been made, all in the way the MAN of sin likes, rather, the Devil likes. Genesis 3:1 combined with Matthew 16:22-23

 

[Oseas]

The belief man has Free will is a myth of man and one of the worst failings of his human doctrine.

CORRECT. I'm glad to see you have not eaten of the tree of good and evil in this site, the fruit of the MAN of sin, son of pertidion. Good discernment.

GOD BLESS -> Luke 20:35-36 combined with Matthew 5:5 and Revelation 11:15-18. Take a look.

 

[Oseas]

Around 6000 years of sinful generations since the Garden of Eden, birthed of the tree of good and evil. In the garden of Eden there was a multitude of inhabitants (all trees of the garden) was governed by a Cherubim, the main tree, but what happened? Ezekiel 31:7-11 reveal.

Genesis 3:17-24
17 And unto Adam GOD said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: CURSED is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So GOD drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming Sword which turned every way, to keep the WAY of the tree of life.
Revelation 22:10-17
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[brightfame52]

Of course you cannot prove , then you appeal to imaginations and conjectures, and assumptions, and speculations, then invent some false interpretation to justify the previous false interpretation that you had been made, all in the way the Devil likes. Genesis 3:1 combined with Matthew 16:22-23

The problem is that the truth cannot be proven to you, Jesus was setup to die for sin that Adam would bring into the world before Adam was created 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

There's your proof but you cannot believe it.

 

[brightfame52]

Who first commited sin was the MAN of sin, the tree of good and evil, not Adam.

You appeal to imaginations and conjectures, and assumptions, and speculations, then invent some false interpretation to justify the previous false interpretation that you had been made, all in the way the MAN of sin likes, rather, the Devil likes. Genesis 3:1 combined with Matthew 16:22-23

I just showed you the Law Adam sinned against Gen 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Do you understand that a command is a Law !

Now according to God's preordained purpose in Christ, Adam had no choice but to disobey that Law of God. Adams will wasnt free to not disobey that Law.

 

[brightfame52]

Oseas

Who first commited sin was the MAN of sin

Who brought sin and death into the world according to Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[Corinth77777]

Its implied since Jesus was already ordained to die for sin that Adam would bring into the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Sometimes truth in scripture may not be something word for word, but it's implied and or consonant or consistent with clear scripture in other places !

Adams choice to sin was also foreordained in conformity to Christ having been foreordained.

We all have opinions

 

[brightfame52]

We all have opinions

Yet not all have a sanctified opinion based upon the clear testimony of scripture, and 1 Pet 1:20 isnt my opinion but a fact.

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Adam sin which brought sin and death into the world was in concert with Gods predetermined purpose to send Christ into the world and die for sin, so Adams choice to sin could not be otherwise and overthrow Gods predetermined purpose for Christ to come and die for his sin and the rest of the elects sins.

 

[Corinth77777]

Yet not all have a sanctified opinion based upon the clear testimony of scripture, and 1 Pet 1:20 isnt my opinion but a fact.

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Adam sin which brought sin and death into the world was in concert with Gods predetermined purpose to send Christ into the world and die for sin, so Adams choice to sin could not be otherwise and overthrow Gods predetermined purpose for Christ to come and die for his sin and the rest of the elects sins.

In this case it's your opinion. You can't prove it, It is not a fact. So case closed. The verdict has been made. You must be able to prove your case and you just didn't. THE END

: نِهَايَة
fim.
末端
kraj.
konec.
slutning.
einde.
fin.
All your eggs in your basket have fallen and are of no use.

Adam could have chosen to eat off all the other trees and He did not because He made a choice to eat off of the tree He was told not to.

That is a fact!

 

[follower]

Does a blind man have a "choice" whether to see a tree or a person or a pit that is right in front of him ?

 

[follower]

Ok was just sharing- guess one’s belief depends on what position one takes.

I think it is written that faith is a gift from God.
If a belief is a gift from God, then it depends on God, although the one given the gift might reject the gift , and lose....