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Was Jesus Really the Christ?

T

TRUTH over TRADITION

Member
I'll begin by saying that it is my belief that Jesus of Nazareth is in fact the Son of the living God and His Anointed One. I know most here will agree with me in that regard. But rather than stating what our belief is about Jesus, I started this thread so that we can share WHY we believe as we do giving scriptural support for our beliefs. I hope that this will challenge many and in the process lead us into more truth and at the very least cause us to "sharpen our swords."

Many do not believe Jesus was the Messiah and they have used the following verses as proof that Jesus did not fulfill the OT's requirements. What say you?


• Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
• Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
• Ezekiel 38:16
• Hosea 3:4-3:5
• Micah 4
• Zephaniah 3:9
• Zechariah 14:9
• Daniel 10:14
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FrustratedForumer said:
Christ and His Word do not need our defending them. They do pretty good on their own.
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I'm sorry Double F, but that is a weak cop out. What happenned to "contending for the faith" and "being able to give an answer for the faith that is in you?" Faith has both substance and evidence, so we should be able to at the very least use the evidence scripture provides to defend what we believe. As Christians, we should KNOW at the very least how to scripturally defend Jesus as being who he said he was because our entire faith is built uponn that fact. If we cannot do that, we are but wishful dreamers at best or dishonest at worst.
 
It totally amazes at where one goes when they do not get what they want! As I said, Jesus does not need me to defend Him.

Now then, 'weak cop out'? How Romper Room!

Acts 17:24-25, God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshiped with mans hand, AS THOUGH HE NEEDED ANY THING, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.​
Man is vain--

  • One man thinks he does God a favor by getting saved.
  • Another man thinks he hurts God or diminishes His power by blasphemying or rejecting Him.
  • Both are wrong. Let's look at the breakdown. Find your category below--
    Job 35:7, If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?​
  • Job 35:6, If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?
    ​
    The righteous do not increase the power of God and the wicked do not take away from the power of God. God has existed from eternity past without my love and He will continue enthroned in power and glory and might long after the vilest blasphemer is rotting in hell. God will be God forever regardless of what a man does or does not do. He is self-sustained in no way relying on man.
 
FrustratedForumer said:
It totally amazes at where one goes when they do not get what they want! As I said, Jesus does not need me to defend Him.

Now then, 'weak cop out'? How Romper Room!
Acts 17:24-25, God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshiped with mans hand, AS THOUGH HE NEEDED ANY THING, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.
​
Man is vain--

  • One man thinks he does God a favor by getting saved.
  • Another man thinks he hurts God or diminishes His power by blasphemying or rejecting Him.
  • Both are wrong. Let's look at the breakdown. Find your category below--
    Job 35:7, If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?
    ​

  • Job 35:6, If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or if thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?
    ​
    The righteous do not increase the power of God and the wicked do not take away from the power of God. God has existed from eternity past without my love and He will continue enthroned in power and glory and might long after the vilest blasphemer is rotting in hell. God will be God forever regardless of what a man does or does not do. He is self-sustained in no way relying on man.
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Why the strawman argument FF? The issue is not what God needs. The issue is OUR calling as believers to be able to as Jude said, "contend for the fate" and as 1 Peter 3:15 says, "be always ready to make your defence to any one who asks from you a reason for the hope which you cherish."
Please let's not skirt the issue at hand by going off on tangents that are not relevant to the topic at hand.
 
No takers? I need some help here guys! The texts I posted are said by Jews to be explicit texts describing the Messiah and what he would do. Their claim in that Jesus did not do all of these things and some even say he accomplished none of the requirements. Using the scriptures, how do we address these claims?
 
I used to be a Satanist and antichrist, until I was 33 years of age which I then came to Christ by faith.

However, before I came to Christ and before I accepted Christ, I looked into Satanism, Buddhism, Islam and other religions to find the truth and meaning for my life.

Why did I accept Christ and not Allah, Krishnah, Buddha etc?

I read a verse that said:

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life..."

I cannot fully explain it, but at that moment I knew with all my heart that if I love truth and seek truth, that it's found in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and I knew with all my heart that Jesus spoke the truth when He declared himself to be the truth...so I chose to follow Jesus by faith over all the other gods that were being preached to me.

Today, Jesus is my Lord and Saviour and best Friend, and my faith is in Him alone.:thumbsup
 
What's interesting about this thread is that many things in the OT have NOT been fulfilled.. YET.. and there are many parts of the OT which speak toward Israel in the latter days.. long after the Messiah came and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for all.. and many of these things are detailed thematically throughout the OT.. how that Israel WOULD reject their King, and be without a King for a long duration, and become desolate.. and yet be restored in the time of the end..

It's nothing short of staggering how that the nation of Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES come in.. even though they were entrusted with the very oracles of God which told the story over and over before it ever came to pass..

So I would agree with a Jew who had issues with some things not being fulfilled YET.. although of course as Paul would do in his day.. I would simply try to prove that Jesus was the Christ based upon everything in the OT that has come to pass already.. for in the volume of the book it IS written of Me.. saith the LORD..
 
I believe that a solid case can indeed be made that Jesus was / is the Christ. I have come to believe that the term "Christ" essentially means "king". I hope to provide arguments supporting the position that Jesus is indeed the "Jewish" Christ.
 
Drew said:
I believe that a solid case can indeed be made that Jesus was / is the Christ. I have come to believe that the term "Christ" essentially means "king". I hope to provide arguments supporting the position that Jesus is indeed the "Jewish" Christ.
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1. Where in Scripture does it indicate that Christ means "King"?

2. Many Jews have come to Christ and accepted Him as their Messiah. They are called "Messianic Jews", so to them, yes, Jesus is the "Jewish Christ".:thumbsup
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
1. Where in Scripture does it indicate that Christ means "King"?

2. Many Jews have come to Christ and accepted Him as their Messiah. They are called "Messianic Jews", so to them, yes, Jesus is the "Jewish Christ".:thumbsup
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There is a group called Jews for Judaism that claims to be able to debunk the claims of the Messianic Jews. It is this group that challenged the christian world onn the issue.

TRUTH: In The Christian Bible?
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
There is a group called Jews for Judaism that claims to be able to debunk the claims of the Messianic Jews. It is this group that challenged the christian world onn the issue.

TRUTH: In The Christian Bible?
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I read that link but failed to see any "debunking" achieved.

I like the Messianic Jews, they accepted Jesus as the Messiah, good for them that they finally accepted the truth.

Yet the Jews for Judaism still refuse to embrace Jesus as their Messiah :screwloose and will be very shocked when Jesus returns when they finally understand that they were deceived and had rejected the true Messiah Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
The fact that I could NOT find good support for my Christian position as this thread asked for was a tipping point for me in my eventual loss of faith. I searched and I was hoping that others had searched and found answers that could stand against those that did not believe in Jesus as the Christ, yet I was left wanting. Because I couldn't give solid scriptural answers I was force by way of honesty to admit and accept that I could do what Jude and Peter had recommended the Christian do in defending their faith and the reasons behind it.
 
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TRUTH over TRADITION said:
The fact that I could find good support for my Christian position as this thread asked for was a tipping point for me in my eventual loss of faith. I searched and I was hoping that others had searched and found answers that could stand against those that did not believe in Jesus as the Christ, yet I was left wanting. Because I couldn't give solid scriptural answers I was force by way of honesty to admit and accept that I could do what Jude and Peter had recommended the Christian do in defending their faith and the reasons behind it.
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We can go Any way we want, but go on the offence with this one. Have them prove all these wrong instead of letting them take your focus to prophecies that have YET to be fulfilled.


Prophecies Concerning His Birth

Prophecy

Fulfillment

Born of the Seed of Woman

GEN 3:15

GAL 4:4

Born of a Virgin

ISA 7:14

MAT 1:18; MAT 1:24-25

Son of God

PSA 2:7

MAT 3:17

Seed of Abraham

GEN 22:18

MAT 1:1

Son of Isaac

GEN 21:12

LUK 3:23; LUK 3:34

Son of Jacob

NEH 24:17

LUK 3:23; LUK 3:34

Tribe of Judah

GEN 49:10

LUK 3:23; LUK 3:33

Family Line of Jesse

ISA 11:1

LUK 3:23; LUK 3:32

House of David

JER 23:5

LUK 3:23; LUK 3:31

Born at Bethlehem

MIC 5:2

MAT 2:1

Presented with Gifts

PSA 72:10

MAT 2:1; MAT 2:11

Herod Kills Children

JER 31:15

MAT 2:16







Prophecies Concerning His Nature

Prophecy

Fulfillment

His Pre-Existence

MIC 5:2

COL 1:17; JOH 17:5

He Shall Be Called Lord

PSA 110:1

MAT 22:43-45

Shall Be Immanuel

ISA 7:14

MAT 1:23

Shall Be a Prophet

DEU 18:18

MAT 21:11

Priest

PSA 110:4

HEB 3:1

Judge

ISA 33:22

JOH 5:30

King

PSA 2:6

MAT 27:37

Special Anointing of Holy Spirit

ISA 11:2

MAT 3:16-17

His Zeal for God

PSA 69:9

JOH 2:15-16







Prophecies Concerning His Ministry

Prophecy

Fulfillment

Preceded by a Messenger

ISA 40:3

MAT 3:1-2

Ministry Began in Galilee

ISA 9:1

MAT 4:12; MAT 4:13; MAT 4:17

Ministry of Miracles

ISA 35:5-6

MAT 9:35

Teacher of Parables

PSA 78:2

MAT 13:34

He Was to Enter the Temple

MAL 3:1

MAT 21:12

He Was to Enter Jerusalem on a Donkey

ZEC 9:9

LUK 19:35-37

Stone of Stumbling to Jews

PSA 118:22

1PE 2:7

Light to Gentiles

ISA 60:3

ACT 13:47-48







Prophecies Concerning Events After His Burial

Prophecy

Fulfillment

Resurrection

PSA 16:10

ACT 2:31

Ascension

PSA 68:18

ACT 1:9

Session

PSA 110:1

HEB 1:3







Prophecies Fulfilled in One Day

Prophecy

Fulfillment

Betrayed by a Friend

PSA 41:9

MAT 10:4

Sold For 30 Pieces of Silver

ZEC 11:12

MAT 26:15

Money to Be Thrown into God’s House

ZEC 11:13

MAT 27:5

Price Given for Potter’s Field

ZEC 11:13

MAT 27:7

Forsaken by His Disciples

ZEC 13:7

MAR 14:50

Accused By False Witnesses

PSA 35:11

MAT 26:59-60

Silent Before Accusers

ISA 53:7

MAT 27:12

Wounded and Bruised

ISA 53:5

MAT 27:26

Smitten and Spit Upon

ISA 50:6

MAT 26:67

Mocked

PSA 22:7-8

MAT 27:29

Fell Under the Cross

PSA 109:24-25

JOH 19:17

Hands and Feet Pierced

PSA 22:16

LUK 23:33

Crucified with Thieves

ISA 53:12

MAT 27:38







Prophecies Fulfilled in One Day (Continued)

Prophecy

Fulfillment

Crucified with Thieves

ISA 53:12

MAT 27:38

Made Intercession for His Persecutors

ISA 53:12

LUK 23:34

Rejected By His Own Countrymen

ISA 53:3

JOH 7:5; JOH 7:48

Hated Without a Cause

PSA 69:4

JOH 15:25

Friends Stood Afar Off

PSA 38:11

LUK 23:49

People Shook Their Heads

PSA 109:25

MAT 27:39

Stared Upon

PSA 22:17

LUK 23:35

Garments Parted and Lots Cast

PSA 22:18

JOH 19:23-24

To Suffer Thirst

PSA 69:21

JOH 19:28

Gall and Vinegar Offered to Him

PSA 69:21

MAT 27:34

His Forsaken Cry

PSA 22:1

MAT 27:46

Committed Himself to God

PSA 31:5

LUK 23:46

Bones Not Broken

PSA 34:20

JOH 19:33

Heartbroken

PSA 22:14

JOH 19:34

His Side Pierced

ZEC 12:10

JOH 19:34

Darkness Over the Land

AMO 8:9

MAT 27:45

Buried in a Rich Man’s Tomb

ISA 53:9

MAT 27:57-60

He is a stumbling block to the Jews and they are partially blinded. If one does not want the truth the best evidence in the world won't change that hard heart or determined will.

One other is A Jew will KNOW that only God can forgive Sins.Jesus and His deity is referred to in that
He is said to have authority to forgive sins (Matt. 9:6; Luke 5:24; Col. 3:13).

"But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins "-- then He said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home." Matt 9:6

"But, so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,"-- He said to the paralytic-- "I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home." Luke 5:24

bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. Col 3:13

Jesus was either of three things with these statements:

1. He was a liar from the pit of Hell.

2. He was a deranged lunatic.

3. He was/is Lord and Savior. He IS Lord and Savior.

A Jew can't even call Jesus a Good teacher if He was lying about being the truth the Way and the Life. Think about it, it would be the most scandalous and malicious lie told in the History of mankind.
 
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TRUTH over TRADITION said:
The fact that I could find good support for my Christian position as this thread asked for was a tipping point for me in my eventual loss of faith. I searched and I was hoping that others had searched and found answers that could stand against those that did not believe in Jesus as the Christ, yet I was left wanting. Because I couldn't give solid scriptural answers I was force by way of honesty to admit and accept that I could do what Jude and Peter had recommended the Christian do in defending their faith and the reasons behind it.
Click to expand...
The Jews don't accept Jesus Christ or the New Testament for the same reason that the Christians don't accept Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon. There's a big difference though. Constantine became Christian, and Christianity became unified and spread throughout Europe by way of Roman conquest. Then, the already Christian Europeans later set sail and conquered the world(England, Spain, France, and Portugal). Mormonism will never get the chance to conquer the world, and that's a good thing. The window of opportunity is now shut for new myths to take hold in educated societies.
 
gr8grace said:
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
The fact that I could find good support for my Christian position as this thread asked for was a tipping point for me in my eventual loss of faith. I searched and I was hoping that others had searched and found answers that could stand against those that did not believe in Jesus as the Christ, yet I was left wanting. Because I couldn't give solid scriptural answers I was force by way of honesty to admit and accept that I could do what Jude and Peter had recommended the Christian do in defending their faith and the reasons behind it.
Click to expand...

We can go Any way we want, but go on the offence with this one. Have them prove all these wrong instead of letting them take your focus to prophecies that have YET to be fulfilled.


Born of a Virgin


A Jew can't even call Jesus a Good teacher if He was lying about being the truth the Way and the Life. Think about it, it would be the most scandalous and malicious lie told in the History of mankind.
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Here is a good discussion on the "Virgin Birth" matter from right here on ChristianForums.net:


Vanguard said:
. . .
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I don't think that I ever posted there(except for technical issues) because I was afraid to find out the truth about my username. I'm okay with the truth now. :)
 
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